4x4 pickup question

I sold my good half ton pickup to my brother. It was a 2007 Toyota Tundra with all the bells and whistles - it was the ?good? pickup so it only had 80k miles on it. It only pulled the bumper pull stuff and left the ugly stuff for the 3/4 ton and dually. It led a charmed life.

Anyway, he?s had it several months and loves it. He called me today and said that he had it in the dealership to check the wheel bearings as there was a new vibration in the steering wheel. He hasn?t driven it for a few weeks as his wife and kids towed their boat to the lake for a week and then his son took it for a week or so to boat with friends in his college town.

Turns out the vibration is a bearing in the front differential to the tune of around $2000. He isn?t saying there was anything wrong with it or trying to lay any blame - just chatting. He said the vibration wasn?t there the whole time he?s had it but had it now that he hasn?t driven it.

Here?s my question: if someone pulled a boat out of the water and then forgot the thing was in four wheel drive (it wasn?t full time four wheel drive) could it cause a bearing to go out in the front differential? I wouldn?t ever point a finger or cause trouble for them or him, but I am just curious for myself. I?ve always been overly cautious with all of my pickups about running it only when I needed it and turning it off just as soon as was possible. There are all kinds of warning lights on the thing, so I?m not sure you could absently leave it on, but I guess anything is possible.

He?s not the most mechanically inclined, but what I invisioned is the output bearing on the side of the difffernectial right before the CV joint and shaft out to the wheel.

I have NO idea how a Tyvoda Tundra is set up, but this must be some sort of "all wheel drive"/"full time four wheel drive" setup, or the front differential wouldn't be turning/shaking while driven in good road conditions with no "four wheel drive" needed.

Hope you can fill us in with the rest of the details!

Don't sound right. I'm betting the boy and his friends did a little off roading......

Rick

I worked for a dealership for 12 years. This is not the 1st one to do this. Seen several, all Toyota trucks we took in on trade were sent to a dealer auction. It just costs too much to fix them.

Front hub assembly is $49.00 at Rock Auto. I have never seen one, but I think 2 hours should replace them.

I know NOTHING about Toyota's, and our "new" truck is a 2004 (and still too new!), but it's not unusual to need 4wd in this area. When we bought the 2004 down in Arkansas, putting it in 4wd, it was quite noisy; sometimes didn't even want to shift there. After using it some, it got quieter. With more use, it got almost unnoticeable, plus had a bit more steer than what I'd push it for before.

Still usually have to "warm it up" a bit at the beginning of winter, but the 4wd on vehicles [i:9bfe0dee8f]really [b:9bfe0dee8f]needs[/b:9bfe0dee8f][/i:9bfe0dee8f] to be used now and then.

I don't do any off-roading....at least, not that the 20+ miles of gravel roads forces me to do. Lots of sand, lots of rocks & pebbles, and lots of winter snow and springtime mud - not sure how to survive without it. *lol*

The point I'm making is, if you rarely-if-ever used 4wd on the truck, then the components were stiff. Hell, with that few miles, probably weren't even broken in yet. So this is going to factor into the problem. Might not have been any "off-roading" going on, but maybe just turning too sharp for the still-tight gearing.

Just a thought.

The Tundra is like many modern part-time 4WD vehicles where the axle shafts are always connected to the wheels. A front axle disconnect breaks one axle when in 2WD so the driveshaft doesn't rotate but the differential components still do. (Actually, there's more going on in the differential when in 2WD than in 4WD since the pinion gears are always rotating.) Think of it like driving a vehicle with manual locking hubs in 2WD with one hub locked and the other free.

$2000 seems like an astronomical cost for replacing a bearing in an axle - seems like you should be able to replace the entire 3rd member assembly for that price. I'd shop around to some local independent shops and get some other quotes before signing up for that cost at the dealership.

As for running in 4WD when it isn't needed the main side effect will be tire wear and weird handling around corners. If the average tire size between the front wheels and the back wheels isn't exactly the same (and it won't be) there will need to be slippage somewhere to compensate since the two axles are locked together. Also, when driving around corners the back wheels need to slip since they have a shorter arc to follow than the fronts. On a grippy surface this will typically cause lurching of the vehicle. Either way the torque loads on the drive components aren't any higher than what can be applied by the tire adhesion so I wouldn't think you'd cause physical damage by forgetting to disengage 4WD one time. However, if a component was on the verge of going out already the increased loads could certainly push it over the edge.

Please keep us updated on the outcome.

It could be a tire.

Premature tire wear should be the only result of leaving it in 4wd.

I question the diag ability of most modern techs, they're not much better than asking folks on the internet. Could be a wheel bearing, could be a tire, could be a this or that. Heck, lets just replace it all for $2k and he will be happy!

It's not all the techs faults either. There are more things to go wrong, and wear is less observable today than in days gone past. Customers are also unwilling to pay for true diag and get offended by $100 charges, when it could take a few hours to do it right. So it ends up not getting done right. It's the nature of consumer demand in the auto world today.

Update - things I forgot to mention...

It has brand new tires and brakes. When he got it from me he did that the first week and had it gone over. It?s small town , so I trust the mechanics and techs a little more over there.

My bet is that it happened when it was ?away at college?. He?s got VERY responsible kids, but they are also the ones who hooked a battery up backwards to jump start it. That was on my previous pickup I sold him.

One of the dealership techs moonlights for extra money and has done some work for my brother, so he was going to check with him. I?ll keep you posted.

(quoted from post at 00:58:09 07/28/18) He hasn?t driven it for a few weeks as his wife and kids towed their boat to the lake for a week and then his son took it for a week or so to boat with friends in his college town.

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(quoted from post at 10:38:45 07/28/18) Update - things I forgot to mention...

It has brand new tires and brakes. When he got it from me he did that the first week and had it gone over. It?s small town , so I trust the mechanics and techs a little more over there.

Click to expand...

So it gets new brakes and likely new rotors. Goes on an extended trip which likely means more miles one way then it's normal use.
Is the wife or son a brake pedal driver?
Warping the rotors or super heating the brake pads?

I would look at the diff. drain plug. The diagnosing tech probably did not touch it. Pull the plug and see what comes out. Milkshake? water got into it and may have ruined one or more bearings. Metal pieces might come out also.

As a retired mechanic, I agree with others that the estimated cost of repair is too high. That much money could buy all new internal parts for most differentials and pay for assembly and setup as well. I personally have never seen any bearing that would cost that much to replace in a differential.

My suggestions are as follows:

1) Get a second opinion from somebody that you trust would be in order.

2) If it is not a safety issue, wait for it to get worse for a more accurate diagnosis.

or, 3) Take it apart and visually examine the bearings, CV joints, and all related hardware.

My opinion.

Did they retork the wheels after the new tires? One could have come loose.

Thinking that too. They drowned some bearings boating . .

I have a Toyota T100 which is the predecessor to the Tundra. It has just shy of 300K miles. 4WD is used regularly, but I don't go "wheelin". It has been around some of the trails at Moab UT. though. It has the auto disconnect differential like the Tundra. That means the axles turn all the time in 2WD, but the driveshaft does not. Never had any trouble with the front axle drivetrain except for one split CV.joint boot. One of the most trouble free 4WD setups around for "normal use".

It is a pretty busy place up there though. 4 CV joints and auto disconnect differential. Hard for me to believe that an adequate diagnosis was done. It would be tough to do without disassembly. I believe their $2k estimate was just a wild a$$ guess, sort of a worst case scenario.

I've had a 97 T100(04-11) and a Tundra Double Cab(12-now) and neither have ever had bearing or diff issues. I have also not heard of any front diffs failing. I did have to replace the transmission wiring harness on the tundra due to a poor connector design from the factory allowing water intrusion and corrosion. $2k for the repair is way high. He should be able to go on ebay and get a whole new/ used good front axle for under $1k shipped to his door and the install shouldn't take much time. I just feel like it could be something else.

College town? I see "Road Trip" all over this story. Think Animal House.