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Small Dairy Farms Have No Brand

T

Traditional Farmer

Well-known Member
Location
Virginia
Back years ago there was a local Dairy processor called Monticello Dairy that local dairy farmers sold their milk and cream to,local people loved their great ice cream and would buy their
milk and cream.Monticello Dairy was the local brand of the local dairy farmers and it sold product for them although apparently few dairy farmers realized it.Then the dairy farmers joined up in these marketing coops and just became part of a huge brandless organization.Monticello Dairy went out of business.Dairy farmers in the area now the ones left have cute sounding names but no brand that any local consumer can go and buy their products to me this is one of the root causes of the small dairy decline.Milk coming from small conventional diary farms is mixed with all the rest now and milk from them or a huge mega dairy there is no difference or advantage a consumer can see by buying it.No brand and brand loyalty usually equals no customers.On the other hand there are various enterprises in our area that have worked on being a brand and have brand loyalty Vineyards are good at this,also there is Albemarle Cider Works and even a small market/restaurant/grocery store called Yoders that about anyone in a 75 mile radius has heard of and most have stopped there and bought something.
 
It is sad, but independent dairies are dying, have to have something special to sell.

The big box places are selling milk below cost just to get people in, and building their own dairies.
 
I'm getting a headache. This,and the last reply to the other dairy post. You talk about how great it is that there are so many aisles full of organics at Wal Mart,then you say those products are no good because they have a label? So nothing's any good unless you can look the farmer in the eye while he's taking your money? Somebody needs to alert consumers then,that all the "local" and organic stuff they're buying in the store is junk and will kill them. You deal with these people all the time. Are you warning them? That's in response to what you said in the other post.

"Milk coming from small conventional diary farms is mixed with all the rest now and milk from them or a huge mega dairy there is no difference or advantage"

That's a direct copy and paste from this post. What is the "advantage" of buying from a small producer vs a mega dairy anyway? Grade A milk laws are all the same and there's no difference in the quality.
 

The demise of the family farms that milked 60 cows, or less, was due to consumer demand for cheap food. Inputs keep going up, but the price for their raw milk stayed low.
 
I have never said anything in any super market would kill anyone.And there doesn't have to be any real advantage to a product take Angus beef as an example but people love to have something to hang their hat on 'Ford VS Chevy'.Many people these days are totally disconnected from farming and they are willing to pay for the knowledge of where their food comes from
IF it raised to their liking.Putting a cam up in 900 ft long caged laying house ain't gonna do it because the same people despise those type operations and don't want food from that sort enterprise.You want to force people to want food that is raised like you want to raise it,ain't gonna happen as the old saying goes 'The customer is King' those spending the money will decide what is in the market place eventually.Small farmers have made a serious mistake joining in and supporting these mega outfits by such things as 'We're all in this together' and farmers should support each other Yada,yada,yada.Not me I have nothing in common with these Industrial farmers and the last thing I want is to anyone to group me with them.
 
The cheap food line is a lie,many people willingly pay a premium for food they want all the time.In my area on any given day the restaurants are full of people they are selling
food priced way beyond what they could buy it for in a grocery store.People for what they want.
 
Some of the smaller ones are offering farm to table days . That way the customer can come and see his product and where it comes from.
Side note on names the shullsburg creamery sells cheese over a wide area and I've heard people say how good it is and even seen a collage professor say that limburger is made there in reality there a broker and only make a little for demonstrating and no limburger
 
I remember a guy going next door getting milk from a neighbor he was not only afraid to drink his but also he might get it at the store.
If customers got to see what was put into there milk i think it would make a huge difference. At most cheese factories there is so much soap and sanitizer used its a wonder there's any taste left.
Then there's the amish some of what they dump in would make you quit drinking milk for sure.
 
Restaurants deliver service and atmosphere with the meal. Any sit-down restaurant that can't keep its food costs below 25 percent of sales does not last long.
 
Think there are different consumer markets for food. There may be a middle income consumer and a high income consumer and even a low income consumer. You can't lump them all together. They are spread out all over the US. A low or middle income consumer may buy Great Value grade A milk from W Mart and be perfectly happy with it and save some grocery money doing it. A high income consumer may buy some Reiter Dairy Pure grade A milk but pay 2 dollars more a gallon or half gallon because they trust the brand and it says on the label, no artificial growth hormones used in production of this product. Both consumers are happy with what they bought and what they paid. Consumers are more discerning and maybe demanding than they were 10 yrs ago. Midwest consumers are a different type of consumer than say the East Coast consumer. In the end they both know what they want and pay accordingly.
 
I’m getting a headache too but it’s from trying to read some of these posts. Commas are your friends guys.
 
Did either one of you guys ever haul milk? I did for two years. Anybody who thinks that,overall,a small farm ships higher quality milk is dreaming. That's isn't and never was the case in general.

As far as what a "small dairy" is,that's mostly fantasy too. The days of a red barn,freshly whitewashed,a cat licking itself in the window,a white silo,a two cylinder John Deere and cows grazing quietly in the pasture all died about 1972. A small dairy today is 100 cows being milked in a double four herringbone parlor in facilities that are declining rapidly because the owner knows he'll be the last one ever to milk cows there and doesn't have the money or the interest to maintain or upgrade anything anymore. It's fun to dream about the past though isn't it?
 
New facilities where there's less bacteria,a vet on staff,help that does nothing but spend their entire shift looking after those cows,it all makes a huge difference. I'm not defending them,it's just how things are. One cow with mastitis out of the tank in a herd of 20 cows is a big deal. One cow in a herd of 2000,it's "Get her out of here,we don't need this.".
 
Really? There are dairies with goats and cows on a cow/goat share program with only 5 or 6 dairy animals shares are sold and the owners pay the care taker to milk and handle the milk for them gets around all the state laws that the dairy lobby got passed.Those small organic dairies around Dayton aren't milking a 100 cows each either.The small producer that mimics the large producer with anything isn't probably going to do very well.
 
Every tank of milk is sampled for quality, and big or small, quality must meet class A grade standards. I do think the more frequently the cows get milked, the lower the somatic cell count will be. And robotic milking barns were the cow goes to get milked as often as she feels the need, seem to get good milk quality results.
 
So by what you're saying people are willing to pay 4X as much for food as they'd have to if its what they want fixed like they want it.I think a lot of people in rural areas have no idea what its like to live in a really prosperous area with thousands of people that make good money and are willing to spend big time for what they want.Example is Wegmans Supermarket full of high
priced food, they have a live lobster tank a huge fresh fish area with some of the fish selling for over $30 lb.and the place is packed with people most of the time.These folks ain't looking for cheap food.Cost is about the last thing they worry about they look for what they want and then buy it,if you can supply what they are looking for you can make big $$$$.
 
It really didn't have to be this way. Canada figured that out a long time ago. 80 percent of USA milk is handled through a cooperative. 80 percent is a lot of power. But the power has been used against the producer. Cheap milk makes the cooperative money thru the many joint ventures they are involved in. You would think that would make the members money. But it don't work like that. Ask any DFA member. They got it figured out. The "board" is a hand picked and groomed lot who better not buck up on anything or your out. Any cooperative that would buy a company--Dairy Concepts, which makes products that replace milk, is not putting the owner/members first. Full supply contracts in the east shut out smaller Coops. They joint the big boys or get out. There is currently a law suit going on in the east by over 100 dairy farmers who came together to fight the milk monster. Monopoly that uses the dairy farmer members money against him. Then there is the Dairy America suit. Another story there.


Nation Dairy Producers member who is also a CPA sent several letters to DFA requesting to see all finiancial records. Member bylaws state any DFA member has a right to see these by signing an agreement to keep it confidential, which he did. To this date he was provided a few basic bits of information and nothing as to the ownership of the "joint ventures" which is the gold mine. As I said----cheap milk= record profits for joint ventures and where that money goes???? A well guarded secret. Fox is in charge of the hen house. Otherwise a huge cooperative could easily put the brakes on production in a heartbeat. Accept no milk that can't be sold for a profit for the member owners. National Dairy Producers has a weekly Tuesday night conference call with major discussion of these matters----for anyone with a true stake in the situation. 8 PM eastern. 712 775 7035 PIN 330090# LB, DFA member since the conception of such. Before that Mid Am Dairymen.
 
People around here want real milk and eggs, so they either have their own cow/chickens, or buy from those who do. The only ones who buy processed milk/eggs are city slickers, mostly because they don't know any better.
 
dachshund_ "The only ones who buy processed milk/eggs are city slickers". How do you "process" eggs?
 
We have a pretty successful small dairy about an hour away, at least from what I've seen. They have a creamery as well and are located along a fairly well traveled road. If you want shoe fly ice cream, it's where to go!

http://www.wayharfarms.com/
 
(quoted from post at 17:41:17 07/02/18) Did either one of you guys ever haul milk? I did for two years. Anybody who thinks that,overall,a small farm ships higher quality milk is dreaming. That's isn't and never was the case in general.

As far as what a "small dairy" is,that's mostly fantasy too. The days of a red barn,freshly whitewashed,a cat licking itself in the window,a white silo,a two cylinder John Deere and cows grazing quietly in the pasture all died about 1972. A small dairy today is 100 cows being milked in a double four herringbone parlor in facilities that are declining rapidly because the owner knows he'll be the last one ever to milk cows there and doesn't have the money or the interest to maintain or upgrade anything anymore. It's fun to dream about the past though isn't it?
Click to expand...

We always drank our own milk. Didn't pasteurize it either, just get it straight from the tank and take it to the house. We probably drank a couple gallons a day. The best cheese was made in one of the many mom and pop factory's that used to be scattered throughout rural Wisconsin. If you got to one of them early enough you could get a bag of fresh curd to take home. A three pound bag would disappear pretty fast. Nothing better than warm curd right from the vat.
 
It's all in the food you give the chickens, how the eggs are cleaned, and how the eggs are handled and stored. Most eggs in the store are already 1-2 months old before they reach the store.
Try a real egg, and compare it to a store egg....
 
I was pretty close to that in 1982. Except, the white silo was actually two Harverstores, the cat was hissing at me, and the 2 popper JD was really a Farmall M I spread manure with every day. In some ways I miss those days. Got a good laugh out of your description.
 
Shenandoah's Pride was another good one!

Do you remember the name of the dairy processing plant that was on RT. 15? Jake Alexander has his shop there, I believe.
 
(quoted from post at 09:22:38 07/02/18) I remember a guy going next door getting milk from a neighbor he was not only afraid to drink his but also he might get it at the store.
If customers got to see what was put into there milk i think it would make a huge difference. At most cheese factories there is so much soap and sanitizer used its a wonder there's any taste left.
Then there's the amish some of what they dump in would make you quit drinking milk for sure.
Click to expand...

Mutt farmer that is bordering on slander. I suppose you want dairies to have to dump all of the product every other week because of too much bacteria. Why don't you go to a dairy and see how the process actually works before condemning something you apparently know nothing about.
 
dachshund- LOL! That's why I feed my chickens onions and green peppers! That way, I don't have to add onions and bell peppers in to make an omelet.
 
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the milk its just that small dairy farms missed a golden opportunity to do some PR and positive marketing by joining up with the big producers.
The needed to put some space between themselves and what is perceived as Industrial farming by many consumers.Its not the squeaky clean stainless steel milking parlors they want to see its the 'contented' cows laying out in the pasture under a shade tree chewing its cud on a Summer day.
 
I've milked cows the majority of my life
have worked in cheese factories . also been
on amish farms and seen there production
methods. Several good friends haul milk . I
wish i was lying but. It's a not uncommon
experience for cheese factories to kill
there waste plants . everything i said can
be proven . As a matter of fact we are now
meeting European standards that are more
strict. You obviously are not talking to
real farmers. I would not want any milk
dumped but get after the poor farmers no
matter what size.
 
Several small guys i know are doing quite well and in fact can't keep up with demand simply because they started and built on word of mouth. There is a strong market out there for farm fresh product most people don't realize but your not only selling the product but the environment it was raised in
 
Leaky boot mentioned that 80% of US milk is marketed through Co-ops. So do these Co-ops have processing facilities, or do they simply resell milk to other processors, and handle billing and pay out etc.
I had heard just last week that Saputo , a multi national dairy processor , started by an Italian immigrant, Lino Saputo, is now the 3rd largest dairy processor in the USA. And a Quebec farmer owned dairy Co-op named Agroprur, is now the 11th largest dairy processor in the USA.
 
OK, I'm not saying who is right or wrong here but......

What some of you guys are missing is the message the consumer is getting. That message is from anti GMO folks and PETA. You, the farmer need to understand this. Instead of laughing at the ignorance of a lot of city slickers you need to get the message out that you are taking reasonable care of your animals and that GMO's are safe. Right now you are losing this fight.

Even the food processors are learning. GM (General Mills) ran an ad just a year or two ago for Cheerio's, you know the cereal made from OATS? Big point they were making was that it was GMO free. And sales went up. Go figure!

My wife works in a convenience store/out door power equipment place. One of the favorite snack bars (supposed the be the healthy ones) from a few years ago sales has tanked in favor or another brand. The difference is the new one claims to be GMO free. Seeing the same thing with pop. Juice sale are up and pop sales have tanked. People have been convinced that the corn syrup used in most pop is bad for you. So when the kids say they want something to drink people are buying em juice and water.

This guys is what you are fighting. And the PETA and anti GMO folks are playing hardball.

Plus people today, especially younger people are more conscious of health issues. Let one person claim that something isn't as good for them and now you have to prove beyond any doubt that what they were told isn't correct. What makes it worse is they the "anti's" tell them that you are going to say they are wrong and say think about it, that guy (the conventional farmer)is only concerned about money.

Getting mad at each other on here isn't doing one little thing to change people's minds and darn sure isn't educating the average consumer.

Rick
 
Are you suggesting that farmers and food processors will come out ahead if we ignore changes in consumer demand? That we should continue to market those products that are harmful to the consumers and their children, or the products that consumers have already decided they don't want anymore?

The industry is already dragging its feet on product labeling and supply chain transparency that have been standard practice in most other industries for decades. We are denying that increasing levels of nitrates, atrazine and roundup in water supplies could be from farms and we are refuse to do anything to reduce those levels. Ethanol in fuel is no longer needed, but continues because the industry complained that dropping it would hurt farmer and investors income and that farmers are not willing or able to change their crop production. The industry is behaving like the tobacco companies did in the 1960s. I believe that is what is hurting our credibility and consumer's confidence in our products.
 
It's real easy to sit there in an armchair and pontificate about how farmers are "not willing or able to change their crop production" but change... TO WHAT?

That's the question that nobody has answered. What is the magic crop that is going to save the farming industry? Either nobody knows, or nobody is saying lest the competition get a leg up on them.

You can't go organic overnight. You have to go something like 10 years without using herbicides, pesticides or fertilizer to get certified. In the meantime you get to work twice as hard for half the yield, and sell it at market price, when you were barely scraping by on bumper crops off GMO seed, using fertilizers and spray.
 
BE, I don't disagree with you at all, there are no easy answers to this.

Henry Ford's Model T cars and Fordson tractors dominated both markets for over a decade because he was the lowest cost producer. He resisted changing to new products because he believed his Ts and Fordsons were all his customers needed. Eventually his creditors and investors convinced him to switch to new products after demand for the old products fell far enough to hurt profits.
 
(quoted from post at 04:39:49 07/03/18) Are you suggesting that farmers and food processors will come out ahead if we ignore changes in consumer demand? That we should continue to market those products that are harmful to the consumers and their children, or the products that consumers have already decided they don't want anymore?

The industry is already dragging its feet on product labeling and supply chain transparency that have been standard practice in most other industries for decades. We are denying that increasing levels of nitrates, atrazine and roundup in water supplies could be from farms and we are refuse to do anything to reduce those levels. Ethanol in fuel is no longer needed, but continues because the industry complained that dropping it would hurt farmer and investors income and that farmers are not willing or able to change their crop production. The industry is behaving like the tobacco companies did in the 1960s. I believe that is what is hurting our credibility and consumer's confidence in our products.
Click to expand...

I'm not admitting to or denying anything. What I'm saying is that if the conventional farmer wants to keep farming as they are now they have to get the message they want the consumer to get across to the consumer. Right now the ANTI GMO and PETA are winning that battle. You used the correct term, CREDIBILITY and consumer confidence. With the nitrates in the water that most farmers are claiming isn't their fault, and other chemicals being used the consumer is running scared. And with the track record of chemical companies who can blame them? Then on top of that what else do they hear about farming? A news story about how the farmer is struggling while showing video clips of 500,000 dollar machines. Now explain that to a family of 4 making 100K a year. Get that family, totally dissociated from farming to understand that the guy in the news who owns several million dollars worth of land plus owns or leases millions more in equipment is broke? Convince them to pay more for food and to burn more ethanol. The anti big farm and the anti chemicals crowd has got their message out. People are believing them. So the feed lot, enclosed poultry, GMO farmers have got to stop yelling that all this "free range" "Grass fed" "cage free" is no different on farm pages. Here you have 2 sides. And most likely you are not going to change anything here. You, the GMO, Feed lot guys have got to talk to the general public. If not in the long run you will either be forced into "sustainable" or "organic" farming or fail. All because even lower income people are running scared or what you are producing.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 09:29:17 07/03/18) It's real easy to sit there in an armchair and pontificate about how farmers are "not willing or able to change their crop production" but change... TO WHAT?

That's the question that nobody has answered. What is the magic crop that is going to save the farming industry? Either nobody knows, or nobody is saying lest the competition get a leg up on them.

You can't go organic overnight. You have to go something like 10 years without using herbicides, pesticides or fertilizer to get certified. In the meantime you get to work twice as hard for half the yield, and sell it at market price, when you were barely scraping by on bumper crops off GMO seed, using fertilizers and spray.
Click to expand...

I am really just starting in the farming thing. I think for a small farm to have any sort of success you need to look at the value adding. Like Way Har I mentioned and their creamery. A small goat dairy I know of makes their own cheese. I'd like to make my own chicken feed. You have to be that next step and you have to have a conversation with your customers. Otherwise you're just competing with a label, and labels make poor stand ins for human interaction. Social media is pretty important for that. Going to events and being in the public. We have to go from commodity to experience, otherwise the economies of scale will obviously take out the small farms. But the big guys can't do much more than labels and sponsorship when ti comes to the personal experience. That's a niche left open. The type of crop doesn't even really matter if you can create the market for it and your experience.
 
(quoted from post at 05:29:17 07/03/18) It's real easy to sit there in an armchair and pontificate about how farmers are "not willing or able to change their crop production" but change... TO WHAT?

That's the question that nobody has answered. What is the magic crop that is going to save the farming industry? Either nobody knows, or nobody is saying lest the competition get a leg up on them.

You can't go organic overnight. You have to go something like 10 years without using herbicides, pesticides or fertilizer to get certified. In the meantime you get to work twice as hard for half the yield, and sell it at market price, when you were barely scraping by on bumper crops off GMO seed, using fertilizers and spray.
Click to expand...

No one said there is a magic crop. But you are on a computer. There are other crops. Maybe a little hard to get started with something you have never grown but it may be indicated.

You just said it. A large part of the problem has been those bumper crops. Go look up supply and demand. Anytime you oversupply a demand prices go down. It's always been that way. So there are 2 options. Produce less. And that would be everyone growing those crops. Or figure out some way to increase demand. Good luck with that. Maybe that half the yield thing would work out better in the long run? I was just looking. They are saying 235 (low side) per acre inputs or more for corn not counting fuel. And I keep seeing flexible amounts from break even based on 200 bushels per acre. But that runs from about 3 bucks a bushel to 4.50 when you factor in land rents, seed, fertilizer, herbicides and machinery/fuel costs.

Rick
 
I tend to agree, if you keep doing things the same
way as everyone else, you will probably get the
same results as everyone else. And if they are
going broke , you will too. Farmers , for the most
part , produce raw products, and not finished ready
to consume goods. Maybe small scale vertical
integration could be the answer. Biggest obstacle to
this kind of idea is marketing at the retail level. Very
difficult if not impossible for a small company to get
their products carried by a big chain store. So that
leaves only direct marketing. All this takes time and
capital to develop. And regardless how good the
products might be, if a big box store can find a
similar product, and sell it for below cost, they can
and will crush the smaller business.
 
I think for a small farm to have any sort of success you need to look at the value adding.
Click to expand...

Which is all well and good if you're made of money, can invest in a modern compliant creamery facility and can weather the unprofitable years while you build your "brand."

Things can't be done the "old way" anymore. Can't make goat butter in a wooden churn in the front yard. Has to be done in a "clean" environment. OSHA, Board of Health, state and USDA regulations all have to be met. Inspections must be passed. Insurances must be carried. All well-intentioned to keep people from getting sick and protect you and your business if something goes wrong, but too costly for the small guy to comply with starting out. He'll be broke before he even has a chance to ship his first order.
 

You're effectively starting a new business. As folks have said, the business model is failing. We can't just go back in time and get ahead of the curve, we have to use the resources and credit we have today, and frankly, for some, maybe many, that won't be enough. So that may not be a solution, but it's the answer unless you want to call for government subsidies of under-performing farms. Frankly with low income, the families likely can qualify for many subsidies anyhow so long as you've been doing to books right.

I'm with you on the excessive consumer protection rules. I don't want to be political here, but I fully support the idea of both USDA certified and the option for consumers to go with a "buyer beware" service as well. Both have consumer advantages frankly, and the buyer beware market allows for folks to start a business. Not just in farming, but all business, government (at all levels) prevents people from getting started and forces them to either be unemployed or employed in a crap job for someone else.
 
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