- Thread starter edhughes
- Start date
hydro70guy
Member
If you mean the nut turns in beyond where hole is for cotter pin you may have to add or you forgot a washer or shim or else there has been enough wear that you need to add a shim.
Andy Martin
Well-known Member
Or the nut has been replaces with a shorter one, but the solution is the same, add a shim. The washer with a key for the keyway to keep it from turning needs to be right under the nut.
the tractor vet
Well-known Member
When you run into this first make sure you have the correct bearings and cups . If that is ok is there a HEAVY washer either with a tab if the axle has a key way cut in it or is there a flat side with a washer with a 3/4 hole , or do you have just the nut ?? I hav e seen a lot of different set ups so with out see what your working on i can not say for sure but you want the castellated nut to engage the cotter pin . also you may not have the correct nut as in your application may require a LONG castellated nut.. I had to make up SELECT FIT washers to get proper perload in the bearings of my gooseneck to keep seals in it . One notch was to loose and the next was way to tight .I run 45 ft.lbs. preload on those bearings and run well over a 100000miles with the same bearings and seals .
If you are saying when nut is tight,it has to be backed off 1/8th turn to alighn notch with hole in axle,that's normal. I tighten nut by hand(no wrench)while slowly turning wheel,back off to fist slot that lines up with axle hole and insert cotter key. If a person lacks strength in hands,it's ok to use a wrench with hand positioned close as possible to nut to tighten before backing off 1/8th turn.
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
You don't want end play on a tapered roller bearing on wheel bearings. If you run them that loose the seals will not last long. I tighten my trailer bearings till they are tight don't turn then back them off till they turn freely. That sets the bearing on the spindle.
If you have that much excess thread behind the cotter pin you need to look for bearings spinning on the spindle wearing it or turning in the hub causing them to get to close. Might even be the wrong width bearings.
If you have that much excess thread behind the cotter pin you need to look for bearings spinning on the spindle wearing it or turning in the hub causing them to get to close. Might even be the wrong width bearings.
You're doing it wrong. Timkin, and all other tapered bearings should not have pre-load, or very, very slight pre-load under cool setting. Nearly all tapered bearings advise a back-off of ~1/4 turn once the bearing bind is felt.
Please don't advise this, it can lead to bearing damage, and possibly catastrophic failure.
docmirror, I agree, and have many times over the years posted links to bearing manufacturer's official information that agrees with you and I.
But, the "pros" on here apparently know more than the manufacturers and continue to preload (apparently by quite a bit, for some of them) tapered roller wheel bearings.
Links below are for heavy truck wheel bearings, however factory manuals for lighter-duty vehicles have similar final endplay "specs".
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&...just.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2Aish7wEkagzxEytvRapSf
(especially note Step 7.)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&...l-sheet/&usg=AOvVaw1wc5EGXKJtjufUM2PhD33l
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
Just about everything has been covered except the condition of the hub.
If there has been a bearing failure in the past, possibly one of the races has spun in the hub, recessing it deeper in the hub than it was originally machined. The races should be a press fit in the hub.
If there has been a bearing failure in the past, possibly one of the races has spun in the hub, recessing it deeper in the hub than it was originally machined. The races should be a press fit in the hub.
rustred
Well-known Member
well, i just pointed out to the guy its called "preload" not "compression' and am getting all kinds speaches on brg. tightness now. thats why i asked waht he was working on... makes a difference! wheel brgs. require 0 end play, because once warm they grow. and yes there is preload on lots of taperd roller brgs. because due to wear preload decreases and shims must be added to maintain the preload. at work ,tapered brgs. are preloaded to .007 of preload. on the job the technicians do regular preload checks. so what do you mean tapered roller brgs should not have preload.???
Please post some scans of shop manual pages that officially state wheel bearings shall never have any endplay, and must be preloaded.
NOT denying that such instructions exist, and they probably do, but in general, tapered roller wheel bearings set up as the manufacturer intended typically DO have a small amount of endplay, rather than "preload".
There's always an exception to about any "rule" but any official instructions that demand "preload" would be FAR outnumbered by official instuctions that demand a couple of thousandths of "free play".
C'mon, prove me wrong!
NOT denying that such instructions exist, and they probably do, but in general, tapered roller wheel bearings set up as the manufacturer intended typically DO have a small amount of endplay, rather than "preload".
There's always an exception to about any "rule" but any official instructions that demand "preload" would be FAR outnumbered by official instuctions that demand a couple of thousandths of "free play".
C'mon, prove me wrong!
I see comments being made both for preload, as well as running the bearings a bit slack. To all of that I'll say this. Between Dad and I, we've got close to 90 years of experience dealing with tapered bearings in everything from wheels to transmissions, to the BIG stuff on shafts in cranes and other equipment.
In all of those years I've seen many people run bearings loose, and guess what happened, they had failures one after another. In fact I recently tightened the wheel bearings on nearly 2o trailers that were losing wheel bearings left and right. Since I tightened them they haven't lost one yet. I've had the same experience repairing trailers for friends who did their own, only to have them fail. I haven't seen one fail again, yet.
When I do one for myself, whether it's been on my trailer, or my service truck, I always put in just a little preload. As I said before, I have never had one fail.
In all of those years I've seen many people run bearings loose, and guess what happened, they had failures one after another. In fact I recently tightened the wheel bearings on nearly 2o trailers that were losing wheel bearings left and right. Since I tightened them they haven't lost one yet. I've had the same experience repairing trailers for friends who did their own, only to have them fail. I haven't seen one fail again, yet.
When I do one for myself, whether it's been on my trailer, or my service truck, I always put in just a little preload. As I said before, I have never had one fail.
I think everyone should do what they want with their own equipment. Posting something contrary to explicit instructions on a public forum for others to follow is wrong. Further, any kind of empirical evidence of a NON-finding of failure is not relevant. A finding, or failure event is not the same as a non-finding. It's like the elephant patrol standing in the atrium of NY grand central station and declaring - 'NOPE, no elephants here!'.
If in doubt, find the relevant instruction from the bearing maker. Pretty sure it will back up that tapered rollers should not have any pre-load. There are unique exceptions for bearings in thermal service areas, and with special grease but we're on a tractor forum, so keeping it tractor related, if you pre-load bearings on a tractor, that is flat out a mistake.
sorry(not really)
If in doubt, find the relevant instruction from the bearing maker. Pretty sure it will back up that tapered rollers should not have any pre-load. There are unique exceptions for bearings in thermal service areas, and with special grease but we're on a tractor forum, so keeping it tractor related, if you pre-load bearings on a tractor, that is flat out a mistake.
sorry(not really)
They actually make tapered bearing sets that come with a spacer to provide the required clearances/preload. There are also many instances where instructions tell you to put an assembly together, measure the clearance, and then shim to allow for x number of thousands left to insure a proper preload.
Ultimately when you spend your life building stuff using bearings, and watching what happens with them, beyond what the engineers say will happen, you eventually come to the realization that not everything those engineers do, or recommend, actually works anywhere but their computer models.....where they design them to fail within the time frame requested by the mfg.
Ultimately when you spend your life building stuff using bearings, and watching what happens with them, beyond what the engineers say will happen, you eventually come to the realization that not everything those engineers do, or recommend, actually works anywhere but their computer models.....where they design them to fail within the time frame requested by the mfg.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
You do realize that .002" is hardly "loose." It should only be perceptible with a dial indicator.
If the wheel is audibly and visually clunking back and forth, that's way more than .002", and I agree, that is loose and asking for trouble down the road.
You also realize that "preload" is not reefed down until you need a 48" pipe wrench to turn the hub.
The joke here is that y'all are talking about the same thing. One man's preload is another man's .002" endplay.
If the wheel is audibly and visually clunking back and forth, that's way more than .002", and I agree, that is loose and asking for trouble down the road.
You also realize that "preload" is not reefed down until you need a 48" pipe wrench to turn the hub.
The joke here is that y'all are talking about the same thing. One man's preload is another man's .002" endplay.
Look, there's a bunch of feces flung here about tight, loose, preload, whatev.
Here is what I specifically objected to: " I tighten my trailer bearings till they are tight [u:220fd44f46]don't turn then back[/u:220fd44f46] them off till they turn freely. "
When instructions clearly say to back off 1/4-1/6" after the bearing is snug. This - is - NOT - any - kind - of - preload. Do I need to be any more clear? If you have instructions that say otherwise, then follow those!
This is a vintage tractor forum. We aren't talking about needle bearings that operate on the Mars rover. We aren't talking about tapered bearings used in micro-surgery manipulator arms. We're talking about big, greasy, hot, heavy, loaded bearings on an old red/blue/orange/green tractor. Try to keep it simple.
Here is what I specifically objected to: " I tighten my trailer bearings till they are tight [u:220fd44f46]don't turn then back[/u:220fd44f46] them off till they turn freely. "
When instructions clearly say to back off 1/4-1/6" after the bearing is snug. This - is - NOT - any - kind - of - preload. Do I need to be any more clear? If you have instructions that say otherwise, then follow those!
This is a vintage tractor forum. We aren't talking about needle bearings that operate on the Mars rover. We aren't talking about tapered bearings used in micro-surgery manipulator arms. We're talking about big, greasy, hot, heavy, loaded bearings on an old red/blue/orange/green tractor. Try to keep it simple.
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