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Body shops

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Michael Soldan

Well-known Member
Well here's one to mull over. About a year ago I was cutting some steel with a metal cut off and some sparks landed on the hood of my truck. I didn't think much of it but in a few weeks I noticed the clear coat had gone white and splochy. The roof of the truck looked splotchy too just from the sun I guess, so I took it to a body shop. The guy said the hood and top would have to be sanded down to bare metal and start over..the price was $1200. I couldn't believe it so I took the truck to another shop, they looked at it and gave me a price of $1500. I got some 400, 600 and 2000 sand paper and started a small spot on the hood , the clear coat came off easily,I went finer and finer until I was at bare paint. I took my polisher and some compound and ran it over the spot..it looked good and if the whole hood was rubbed down and buffed why would the shops all say it needs to be taken down to bare metal. I thought the paint work would be $500-$600....can'tbelieve the quotes I got. Guess I'll be doing the roof myself, nobody can see how good or how bad I paint it, not sure about the hood yet
 
Not an expert, only have advice from my paint jobber but the reason the clear coat is there is to keep the base coat from fading. The clear coat is cheaper than the color coat so it saves money for the manufacturer if they don't have to apply so much color. If you don't mind, its okay, but the color will fade quicker and a few more polishes will remove the rest of the paint.
 
Probably because there is a chance heat damage went deeper and down the road it might come up again. If they go to bare metal they have full control over the quality of the finish, and any down the road issues that might come up. It's not uncommon for a customer to ask someone to half do a job and then come back and complain that the job wasn't done right, so best to quote above and beyond and know it will be good to go.
 
Bodymen have their reputation on the line, no incentive for them to risk having paint system compatibility problems etc. If it was for a car getting dumped at auction without their name at risk they are probably much braver.
 
I should add, had some damage to my 08 F350 srw on the left rear quarter, required new rear bumper and fixing a dent in the quarter panel (left box side), I didn't want to run through insurance, body shop said it would save me about $1000 if they didn't replace the whole box side. Replaced the bumper with a aftermarket bumper (new) painted and clear coat the whole box side and new 4x4 decal was $1600 cash.
Depending on location the prices you gave might not be too out of line. I drove the truck this way for three years, but want to trade for new and decided I should fix before the trade.
 
You don't have to warranty your work. The only way the body shop can be sure paint won't go bad is to take it all off and start new. The white spots are holes burned through the clear coat allowing water to get under the finish. If the holes are still there the white spots will come back.
 
K!

YOU mucked up your paint and are expecting a "profit center" AKA as a "body shop" to fix it reasonably?????

But (HOPEFULLY) you've now figured out that doen't work!
 
Body shops are very very expensive the last job I had done they bid it with the cost of a new hood walked in and there they were filling up the dent in the hood with bondo . It takes a lot of work to do a decent job painting and auto body shops know most people don?t have the time or the know how to learn to do the job themselves so like going to the dentist you either pay up or live with the pain
 
When you do work for yourself you are okay with less than perfect. As soon as you pay someone else $1 you expect perfection and a warranty. Body shops know this and won't take short cuts. It is 100% done right to perfection or not at all.
 

I did body work for a few years about starved to death... Body shop labor rates are actually cheap compared to other professional labor rates.

Profit for billable work hours is very low unless you can improve the profit for a billable hour by adding the mark up for parts. Most insurance co. allow 25% mark up on parts that's a low percentage in the real world. Every body shop I have asked I have found $45 a hour is on the high side. I am not taking up for them bushiness 101 would tell me I can not survive unless I sell parts to in-cress my profit on billable work hours. Profit has to come from somewhere you are either going to have to up billable work hours are turn the job in less hours and a good markup on the material used. Paint price is shocking I brought two oz of paint to paint a repair on my ford truck last year it was $45 :shock: That's just the color coat.

OK that did not lessen the pain but it is what it is...
 
go price some base coat clear coat paint and you'll see why the quote is so high, then figure in the labor. yup, it's pricey
 


Any business is going to have to cover costs and make a profit or they cease being a business. I don't know why people can't grasp this. No, no one likes the fact that everything is expensive, but it IS a fact that the bodyshop is covering more than just the cost of paint and labor. Every tax, every regulation, every permit, every other cost is added to their time and supplies. Simple economics.
 
(quoted from post at 00:03:09 05/30/18)
YOU mucked up your paint and are expecting a "profit center" AKA as a "body shop" to fix it reasonably?????
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AKA a business? I have learned in my few years that if you don't pay the right price upfront you often pay down the road. I think it's insulting to business folks to suggest their price isn't reasonable. Unless you're in the middle of no where, there is this thing called competition. The OP went to a few places and they're in line with each other by a few bucks. That tells you what it cost to fix it right, aka "reasonably".
 
SO you've sanded off the clear coat and have two stage paint exposed to the elements with no clear coat. In another year or two you'll have no paint left - and if you polish it every time it fades the paint will come off even faster. They quoted you the price it would take to fix it right, you did your "baling wire" temporary fix for a few dollars. If the truck was being sold tomorrow you'd be fine, in two years the truck will like it has a had case of scabies.
 
from a body shop owner here, i can see two problems. first, your clear is delaminating from the base coat. second, the sparks burned through the paint. tiny specks of the hot metal are embedded in the paint. the whole surface needs to be removed, then prepped, then epoxy primed, then block sanded, then re-primed, then a guide coat applied, then re-block sanded. then wet sanded, then a wax and grease remover applied, (may or may not need a sealer also) then 2 to 3 coats of base applied, then 2 to 3 coats of clear, then baked in a spray booth. we life time warranty our paint work. the price they quoted is in the ball park.
 
As others have said, you can do a half arsed job yourself and get away with it for a year or two. A body shop has its reputation on the line and they're naturally not going to do less than the best they can to. Plus, they have to show a profit or there's no point in being in business.

Another point: Color has a lot to do with the cost. When I had my shop, I once did some work on a Dodge Daytona that had a metallic purplish color with 9 components in the paint. I only needed a pint for spot work, but I figured out a gallon of base coat in that color would have been over $1500. And that was close to 20 years ago.
 
That sure raises a question with me. How can a manufacturer afford to put such expensive paint on a vehicle? It just seems to me that they would choose a more "economical" paint to put on a new car.
 
Glenster ....... as an owner, you know of what you speak obviously. I don't buy a whole lot of anything anymore but when I do, my first reaction is that I'm getting ripped off. Then I look around and see the store, all the employess and everything else that goes along with it and I usually come to my senses. Up here, I have heard that it is becoming more difficult as the years flow by to get the younger generation interested in being an auto body man. Some of the work is messy and dirty I suspect and a lot of kids nowadays, and it's not really their fault, prefer not to engage in hard work that doubles up with with getting their hands dirty.
 
Yes body shops are expensive, but it isn't necessarily their fault. The costs of automotive paints and supplies is staggering. The last time (2 years) I bought a quart of PPG single stage paint it was like $100+ a quart. That was for red paint. Oranges thru red are the most expensive due to the pigments needed. Then you have to add the reducer and the hardener. The epoxy primers and high build primers are about the same price per volume. The body shop could have $300 to $400 in materials just make a simple repair. I no idea what two stage paint systems cost, but I am sure they are more expensive than the single stages systems.

OTJ
 
(quoted from post at 07:02:47 05/30/18) Glenster ....... as an owner, you know of what you speak obviously. I don't buy a whole lot of anything anymore but when I do, my first reaction is that I'm getting ripped off. Then I look around and see the store, all the employess and everything else that goes along with it and I usually come to my senses. Up here, I have heard that it is becoming more difficult as the years flow by to get the younger generation interested in being an auto body man. Some of the work is messy and dirty I suspect and a lot of kids nowadays, and it's not really their fault, prefer not to engage in hard work that doubles up with with getting their hands dirty.
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I’ve been told that it is a slowly dying business. Most cars on the road, it doesn’t take much damage to exceed the value of the car.
 
heres a couple pics of a few of our recent builds. huge money invested. these are customer vehicles. the current project is the mustang gt on the rotisserie.
a269029.jpg

a269030.jpg

a269031.jpg

a269032.jpg

a269033.jpg

a269034.jpg

a269035.jpg

a269036.jpg

a269037.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 14:33:33 05/30/18) from a body shop owner here, i can see two problems. first, your clear is delaminating from the base coat. second, the sparks burned through the paint. tiny specks of the hot metal are embedded in the paint. the whole surface needs to be removed, then prepped, then epoxy primed, then block sanded, then re-primed, then a guide coat applied, then re-block sanded. then wet sanded, then a wax and grease remover applied, (may or may not need a sealer also) then 2 to 3 coats of base applied, then 2 to 3 coats of clear, then baked in a spray booth. we life time warranty our paint work. the price they quoted is in the ball park.
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If you're repainting one of seven Bugatti Royales in the world, that's how you would do it.

The OP is doing a pick up truck!!!!

Is there a boat payment coming due? Lol
 
el hombre, sorry, but EVERY vehicle that comes thru my shop is treated the same way, whether it is a ferrari, dualley pickup or chevette scooter. my name and reputation go with the vehicle when it is done. if a shop does a good job, the customer may tell one person, if the customer is not happy, they will tell 20 people. and no, my profit margin is not that high.
 
(quoted from post at 17:47:40 05/30/18) el hombre, sorry, but EVERY vehicle that comes thru my shop is treated the same way, whether it is a ferrari, dualley pickup or chevette scooter. my name and reputation go with the vehicle when it is done. if a shop does a good job, the customer may tell one person, if the customer is not happy, they will tell 20 people. and no, my profit margin is not that high.
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I've been in a couple of shops like yours; didn't bite. I could see the quality of jobs in other shops when I worked for an insurance company, and that was good enough for the vehicle. I don't need or want to pay for, guide coats and days of block sanding trying to get the factory panels 'perfect'.

That's also why I won't buy a black anything; just won't.

I'm sure you're making a LOT more money with the boutique style operation; that's why we have boutique style operations. Lol
 
el hombre, i do not run a boutique style shop. i run an honest neighbor hood shop that does excellent work. i worked insurance claims for 25
years also. we do a lot of volunteer work for our community, and donate to our local charities, school programs and help out the local scouts.
we also help out a lot of the senior citizens here with their cars, often , no charge.
 
Those sparks get stuck in the clear coat, my brother had something similar happen to his 1991 Chevy 1 ton dually. When you sand it, you are pretty much grinding those sparks down into the paint just like you if you left some dirt on the surface you are sanding. Most body shops take it down to bare metal because they don't want you to come back a few months later to demand they re-do again it for free.
 
(quoted from post at 15:18:11 05/30/18)

I’ve been told that it is a slowly dying business. Most cars on the road, it doesn’t take much damage to exceed the value of the car.
Click to expand...

Case in point... I like Subaru's and I've been following a couple of young guys down in Tennessee on YouTube (goonzquad) who bought a 2017 WRX, 17,000 miles, from a salvage auction to restore. Car was hit on the side, no airbag deployment, runs and drives. Was partially disassembled by a body shop, just front bumper missing but all there otherwise. Relatively light damage on the side. The insurance company totaled it, that was a $35,000 car new. So two country bumpkin kids put the work in to find two driver side doors, minor body work, some repaint and blending and put it back together. They did have a frame shop fix the hit area, they said a small job, and put the doors on and get them aligned.

Because the cost of normal repair was so high they essentially discarded a nearly new vehicle. It's no wonder that insurance costs are so high. I don't fault the shops, they have to pay their guys and gals and keep the bills paid and hope there is some left over to feed the family. At some point, and we might be there now, cars are going to be disposable items, get hit and it goes to the salvage auction. Won't need body shops as there will be nothing but high end work to do.
 
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