Not to call out a particular dealer but we have 2 kubota dealers within 100 miles of here. Have bought from both over the years excellent service and support from both. I approached both for a price on a tractor and told them both that I want the best price first and no games. Dealer A gave me a price and dealer B gave me theirs on the exact same model tires and loader and dealer B was a whopping $15 000 less than dealer A. I told dealer A that we were purchasing from dealer B. He then got defensive and asked what the other dealers price is. I told him and he immediately said I can match that. I said no not happening. He then went into a rant how the other guy was cutting his throat that the other guy doesn't give back to the community like they do,I said please don't take it personal. I said were in your yard on almost any given week looking and if I need something your always my first call. He then said its hard not to take it personal and ended the conversation in a pretty worked up state. I'm sorry he was upset but I can't justify giving him the deal just for matching after he was more than willing to skin me untill he heard the other guys price. I could see several hundred maybe even $1500 more that I could work with but $15 000 more on the exact same tractor and it's only 100 hp and no cab? Give me a break!!! Sorry for the rant but it bothers me him trying to make me feel bad after he tried to take advantage of me.
- Thread starter Philip d
- Start date
tomstractorsandtoys
Well-known Member
That seems like a lot of difference. I am sure the first dealer was making a profit at the price he gave you. Local CaseIH dealer priced an articulate tractor to a farmer who then went to a NH dealer and priced one as well. The NH was $85,000 cheaper. When he went back to the CaseIh dealer they offered to match the the price and the farmer completly blew up. He owned two quad tracks,2 CaseIH combines and plenty of other red equipment all from this dealer. Within 3 years he traded off all his red equipment. If the CaseIH dealer would have just said "Well they have me beat on price" they would not have lost a customer. It pays to shop around sometimes. Tom
showcrop
Well-known Member
I was once quoted a regular customer a good price on a pretty expensive machine. The next time I was back to follow up he told me that another dealer said that he would match whatever price that I quoted him. I laughed right out load and said "HA! He doesn't want to leave a dime on the table!" I got the sale.
Phillip that really sounds like something is wrong. I don,t think we have made 15,000 on any open station 100 hp we have sold. They really must be going OVER suggest list. Typical KUBOTA mark up is in the 11 to 12 % over dealer cost with some dealers getting down to 8 % . That guy that was charging you 15 thousand too much was really skinning you. Are you sure one was not quoting open station and the other a cab? Hard to find a open station 100 hp KUBOTA
Absolutely,we were pricing up a John Deere too. I know as a rule Deeres are more money and this time it was in the end too,not the lease payment but the buyout at the end. I explained why it didn't fit our budget and he understood. He thanked me for the opportunity to give us a quote and said please don't hesitate to contact him at any time and he'd be happy to try again next time. That's what I call class.
carvel minne farmer
Well-known Member
WOW $15,000.00! over dealer A, I agree with ande he's doing local community support with your money! no wonder you where P.O.'D
I Was shopping for a JD tractor about 10yrs ago. Found one on my route about two hours away from home got a price quote on paper. Went to the local JD dealer. I gave him the quote and told him I wanted to buy local and would give $1000 over quote if he would get me the same thing. He threw the quote at me and said it wasn't worth his time. 4yrs later they were no longer a JD dealer.
Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
I wouldn't loose any sleep over it . The only good deal , is the deal that is good for you ! If the one guy wanted to skin a extra 15 Grand out of you this time , you know he will figure you as a easy mark , and try to skin you again next time. Let him fret about his business losses , you just have to look after yours too. And the dealer that cut you a good deal, will probably be the guy with the better price next time Anytime a salesman says to me that he can match the other guys price, isn't good enough. He should have offered you the better price first. And if he expects you to buy from him after you tell him the other fellas price , either do better , or say , sorry I can't do it for that, and withdraw his offer.
I have brought 3 new Kubota's and two used ones. Its been my experience the prices have always been pretty close at the different dealers I usually check with when buying. I have 6 dealers that I can think of within 50 miles. Its my trade in that has usually made the difference in my dealings. My favorite salesman and go to Kubota dealer has only sold me the first one I brought. But they still treat me good and understand when they can't match a deal.
As is recognized by all $15,000 is a huge difference. But, with that said, does his overhead have anything to do with what he charges? May be it is much greater that "B". Yet, it is still quite a difference. I recently had to replace a pto drive shaft and as I always try to buy locally, the local shop wanted $200. Ok! Well I found an exact OEM replacement for less that $100 in Colorado. But, again, it was local dealer with overhead vs internet with little overhead. I would have been willing to pay a little more locally, but more than double does not seem right. I don't begrudge folks wanting to make a profit, but when the price more than doubles, I draw the line. But, then again, maybe I don't understand business.
That is a lot of difference, but it is not always about up front cost, but total cost of ownership over the lifetime of the unit. Shop labor rate difference, one dealer charges list for parts and the other 10 percent over, charges for pick up and delivery for warranty repairs, etcetera. I don't know about Kubota, but the other dealers I've been at, not all dealers pay the same price for their units depending on their volume and floor plan financing. If the unit on Dealer B's lot was coming due on floor plan he may have broom'd it at cost just to move it. I also agree that Dealer A should not have made scene with you.
Having been in commercial truck sales in the past (and getting back to it here shortly), I would pass on a customer going around looking for the lowest quotes. IMO there is zero reason to waste their time or yours. I'd much rather spend time with a customer who wants to use me and my time as a resource, which then earns the sale. The price information is generally there on the internet. I'd politely pass on someones business because that is the customer playing games. I also felt that such people deserved to get as few quotes as possible so whoever did sell to them might be able to get a really high sale off it. I find such "shopping" to be mentally lazy while far more work and generally it means it's not a customer I'd like to work with. That doesn't mean I sat around waiting for suckers. My customers got pretty good deals from me and I'd be more than happy to justify any deal I wrote up. I realize not all sales folks are like that. Different folks have different justifications, but the multiple quote method is so dated, it'd be like trying to be competitive with a mule.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
I'd of done the same as you did,15K is a lot of money and since he just dropped it the 15K that's says he's a ripoff to me.I wouldn't deal with him on anything after that.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
In other words if you can't gouge a customer you're not interested in dealing with them.And the multiple quote method is alive and well as you'll find out quickly.
Sorry, I don't buy off on that line of thinking. I was looking for a vehicle, stopped in at a "one price dealer". They advertise all over the place bragging about their one price deals. I looked at a low mile 3 year old vehicle. Ask the price and then told the salesman well that nice but more than I want to spend. His reply was "we can work on the price". You want my business 1 be honest, 2 WORK FOR IT!
Rick
So you have never gotten multiple quotes on anything? Vehicles, insurance, or anything else. You've never checked with two different parts stores for a price on any parts? I don't know what world you live in but you would last one week around here passing on customers just because they go out and get other quotes.
I was making $60k a year by my 3rd year, not starving for sure, that's why I'm going back. My customers where as good to me as I was to them. I just see no value in tossing numbers at a wall and hoping they stick, and as a consumer, you don't get a better deal than you can with a little smart internet research and working out a deal with whichever deal or salesperson you like best. You save alot of time and build a relationship, which comes in handy if you have issues down the road.
IDK if equipment is the same as vehicles, but customer surveys matter to you your pay too. And folks who only price shop are much more likely to give a less than perfect survey. Perfection is the only score that matters, everything else is a failing grade. So it was much more enjoyable and profitable for me to just take care of people who actually wanted to be taken care of, and let the penny pinchers pinch someone elses pennies. My deals and the best in the market were withing a few hundred bucks, and if someone sat down at a buying table they'd end up with a better deal anyhow. Obviously old stock is a whole different game and that just depends on who has what, but I have told folks where the truck they want is that I couldn't get and they'd come back to me next time around. It is about relationships, not just price, at least if you're my customer.
IDK if equipment is the same as vehicles, but customer surveys matter to you your pay too. And folks who only price shop are much more likely to give a less than perfect survey. Perfection is the only score that matters, everything else is a failing grade. So it was much more enjoyable and profitable for me to just take care of people who actually wanted to be taken care of, and let the penny pinchers pinch someone elses pennies. My deals and the best in the market were withing a few hundred bucks, and if someone sat down at a buying table they'd end up with a better deal anyhow. Obviously old stock is a whole different game and that just depends on who has what, but I have told folks where the truck they want is that I couldn't get and they'd come back to me next time around. It is about relationships, not just price, at least if you're my customer.
I was making $60k a year by my 3rd year, not starving for sure, that's why I'm going back. My customers where as good to me as I was to them. I just see no value in tossing numbers at a wall and hoping they stick, and as a consumer, you don't get a better deal than you can with a little smart internet research and working out a deal with whichever deal or salesperson you like best. You save alot of time and build a relationship, which comes in handy if you have issues down the road.
IDK if equipment is the same as vehicles, but customer surveys matter to you your pay too. And folks who only price shop are much more likely to give a less than perfect survey. Perfection is the only score that matters, everything else is a failing grade. So it was much more enjoyable and profitable for me to just take care of people who actually wanted to be taken care of, and let the penny pinchers pinch someone elses pennies. My deals and the best in the market were withing a few hundred bucks, and if someone sat down at a buying table they'd end up with a better deal anyhow. Obviously old stock is a whole different game and that just depends on who has what, but I have told folks where the truck they want is that I couldn't get and they'd come back to me next time around. It is about relationships, not just price, at least if you're my customer.
IDK if equipment is the same as vehicles, but customer surveys matter to you your pay too. And folks who only price shop are much more likely to give a less than perfect survey. Perfection is the only score that matters, everything else is a failing grade. So it was much more enjoyable and profitable for me to just take care of people who actually wanted to be taken care of, and let the penny pinchers pinch someone elses pennies. My deals and the best in the market were withing a few hundred bucks, and if someone sat down at a buying table they'd end up with a better deal anyhow. Obviously old stock is a whole different game and that just depends on who has what, but I have told folks where the truck they want is that I couldn't get and they'd come back to me next time around. It is about relationships, not just price, at least if you're my customer.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
So name the place you're going top be working,so we'll know not to bother stopping by.
tractorguy2
Well-known Member
There is no point in comparing prices of like equipment where I live. The John Deere dealer owns all 22 stores. The Case ih owns something like 30 stores. The dodge,Gm, and the Ford dealer all belong to the same guy.
I didn't say that at all. I said do your research online.
It's simply a reasonable position knowing dealers get equipment for the same prices, so there isn't a reason I can't find the lowest price online, determine the difference in equipment, age, etc, and then work out an equally good deal with the folks I want to work with in a single sitting. It's the same thing as shopping in person, but it saves so much more time for everyone, and it's so much easier to get a good sample. You also get the relationship which frankly is pretty valuable. Unless a dealer wouldn't work off my research, or justify the difference, there is no reason to go to a second shop. Therefore such a customer is unreasonable, and likely to give a bad survey.
tractorguy2
Well-known Member
I wouldn't bet all dealers get the same deal on new equipment. I
was a Snapper dealer for many years. Snapper had four levels of
dealers. Bronze, silver, gold,and platinum. I was a bronze
dealer. I had to pay freight on all equipment and shipping on
all parts orders.
The top dealers got free freight and a larger discount than I
did. A bronze dealer could not compete against a platinum
dealer. Snapper started selling through Wal-Mart and really made
it hard to sell. That's why I quit.
was a Snapper dealer for many years. Snapper had four levels of
dealers. Bronze, silver, gold,and platinum. I was a bronze
dealer. I had to pay freight on all equipment and shipping on
all parts orders.
The top dealers got free freight and a larger discount than I
did. A bronze dealer could not compete against a platinum
dealer. Snapper started selling through Wal-Mart and really made
it hard to sell. That's why I quit.
Andy Martin
Well-known Member
All I can say is WOW! We sure live in different worlds. There's just a lot of people who are not internet savvy and want to talk to the people he is going to deal with. The OP was hardly a penny pinching price shopper. He was an honest guy who got a shock and even had the courtesy to tell Dealer A how far out of line he was. And you are saying he should have been happy with Dealer A's gouging and not shopped around.
Relationships are important, but part of a relationship is the seller's reasonable profit. I've had people I worked with and liked dealing with but found out one they had my confidence is was a confidence game: they tried to screw me. No more relationship.
I just don't believe you when you say people get a better deal when they sit down to make the purchase. I have never ever had a dealer lower his quote after I've said I want to buy.
I apologize that many of you are missing my point. I'm not at all saying you should walk in and buy from the first person you talk to and believe whatever you said. I'm stating that you have so much information at your finger tips that it's a literal waste of your time to go to multiple shops, unless you really don't know which one you want to deal with, and frankly that shopping should probably be more about the service side of things.. I'm lucky that I live in an area with many car and equipment dealers. It's a very competitive environment. For me there isn't a question of sitting around waiting to rip someone off, rather quite the other way around. If you live in an area with only one shop it can be much harder to work a deal. But around here, there are multiple dealerships for any of the domestics. No way I sat around selling trucks at sticker price, nor did I try to. What I said is I was picky about who my customers where. I wanted people who valued my time. That doesn't mean they want to spend thousands more at all! But if they valued my time, and I gave them good service, they'd consistently buy from me for the nearly the same figures you get when you go quote shopping. It does work, for both the sales side and the customer side. It's more like too much integrity than a lack of it. I want to work hard for you, and giving out low quotes only isn't doing that at all. I wouldn't ever get upset if a customer bought someone else if I had simply shown them full sticker price (or over as it sounds may be the case for the OP). On trucks at least, I would get frustrated by the state law differences that let folks think something is cheaper south of my boarder, but then the fee differences, or when destination charges are applied change things up. Also, with commercial sales, I wasn't dealing with a bunch of old grouchy guys that bought a new truck every 20 years. I was dealing with business owners who would often buy a few per year, so they also don't have time for the quote game, and simply find honest sales folks they know they can work with time and time again. Their time was valuable, and so where their dollars, I respected both.
To the OP specifically, when it comes to vehicles (and there are many state laws that vary so you gotta be careful), I simply would say work off invoice. If it's a very expensive truck, you can work into the holdback a little. Get approved with your own bank and then offer to let the dealer match/beat that rate. You will let them make some finance money while saving you finance money, so that can be a win win. Equipment isn't all that much different.
To the OP specifically, when it comes to vehicles (and there are many state laws that vary so you gotta be careful), I simply would say work off invoice. If it's a very expensive truck, you can work into the holdback a little. Get approved with your own bank and then offer to let the dealer match/beat that rate. You will let them make some finance money while saving you finance money, so that can be a win win. Equipment isn't all that much different.
They aren't going to lower their price without you asking for it, but a buyer is always in a better negotiation position than someone just looking for a price. Any good salesperson knows when someone is serious about buying, and that means willing to sign now for the right deal. Actually, it's the only way to really force the extra strong deal. It's when volume matters, and it might be possible to get a $0 deal, or even a loser for the dealership. Have you ever got a quote you were happy with, gone in and then said "this quote is pretty good and if you can do a little better I'm ready to move forward today"? cause that line is pretty golden.
IMO, shopping is for finding people you like to work with and getting expertise and experience to help make the right tool decision. Pricing is just too easy to handle. If you'd done research online ahead of time you'd know $15k more than others wasn't a realistic quote from the start, and that could have been the end of that right away.
Frantz - Funny you mention truck sales. 30 years ago I had the fun assignment of buying a new company
truck. Boss gave me a general idea what he thought we needed, We were replacing a bare bones 10 yr old
no option pickup with a one ton dually with flatbed to haul heavy stuff.
I had four local dealers for Ford, and checked out a couple Chevy dealers, GMC, and a Dodge dealer. Went
to two truck equipment dealers for the flatbed. Each dealer didn't exactly listen closely to me,
included or deleted options I wanted, and as expected prices came in over a range of $4000. I had just
bought a SWB reg cab 4wd that was pretty well loaded with chrome and heavy-duty springs, swaybars,
shocks. My one ton 2wd was coming in cheaper than my new truck. The Chevy & GMC were between body styles,
not sure what style I would get if I ordered a GM, Dodge used a more expensive non-standard bed so those
brands were rejected. I went back to all 4 dealers on last time, handed them a list of options to quote,
NO substitutions, low bid gets the order. The next day I had four bids with about $110 between highest
and lowest bid on four identical trucks.
Unfortunately we didn't buy the new truck, but my next project was to buy a new forktruck. We had two CAT
lift trucks, plus our parent co. had dozens of Cat lifttrucks, and did Millions of Dollars of business
with Cat every year. Local Cat dealer took excellent care of us on service. I made one call to the Cat
dealer, salesman came to ME, told him and showed him what we needed/wanted, he bid accordingly exactly
what we wanted, He Listened, Boss and I got the money approved and I ordered the lift truck. Couple weeks
later he called and said they were delivering our new lifttruck that afternoon. Salesman came over too,
explained operation of the new truck and differences from the old trucks.
So there's times you need to check new sources, and other times you go back to a supplier that has kept
you satisfied for years. Over 30 years experience buying parts and supplies for manufacturing has proved
to me you Never stop looking for better suppliers.
truck. Boss gave me a general idea what he thought we needed, We were replacing a bare bones 10 yr old
no option pickup with a one ton dually with flatbed to haul heavy stuff.
I had four local dealers for Ford, and checked out a couple Chevy dealers, GMC, and a Dodge dealer. Went
to two truck equipment dealers for the flatbed. Each dealer didn't exactly listen closely to me,
included or deleted options I wanted, and as expected prices came in over a range of $4000. I had just
bought a SWB reg cab 4wd that was pretty well loaded with chrome and heavy-duty springs, swaybars,
shocks. My one ton 2wd was coming in cheaper than my new truck. The Chevy & GMC were between body styles,
not sure what style I would get if I ordered a GM, Dodge used a more expensive non-standard bed so those
brands were rejected. I went back to all 4 dealers on last time, handed them a list of options to quote,
NO substitutions, low bid gets the order. The next day I had four bids with about $110 between highest
and lowest bid on four identical trucks.
Unfortunately we didn't buy the new truck, but my next project was to buy a new forktruck. We had two CAT
lift trucks, plus our parent co. had dozens of Cat lifttrucks, and did Millions of Dollars of business
with Cat every year. Local Cat dealer took excellent care of us on service. I made one call to the Cat
dealer, salesman came to ME, told him and showed him what we needed/wanted, he bid accordingly exactly
what we wanted, He Listened, Boss and I got the money approved and I ordered the lift truck. Couple weeks
later he called and said they were delivering our new lifttruck that afternoon. Salesman came over too,
explained operation of the new truck and differences from the old trucks.
So there's times you need to check new sources, and other times you go back to a supplier that has kept
you satisfied for years. Over 30 years experience buying parts and supplies for manufacturing has proved
to me you Never stop looking for better suppliers.
showcrop
Well-known Member
Frantz, I understand where you are coming from as a sales professional. I owned and operated a distribution business for many years and sales was part of my job. I almost always wore a uniform due to the nature of the service work that we performed for our customers who purchased our product. I wrote hundreds of proposals laying out in simple English what would be best for the prospective customer. "You can lead them to water but you can't make them drink." Many people have to waste a lot of money trying to save a dime buying something that is not right for the job.
Kansas4010
Well-known Member
That's for the most part what it's gotten like around here. Seems every dealer here quotes MSRP price and refuses to budge. The Kubota dealer happens to be the worst. They gave me the same story as the OP about how they "support the community and take care of their customers ". Being a small time farmer I guess it proves how much buying power I have. I can get a lot better deal from dealerships in other states and have it trucked to me than this area. The dealerships have told people that have done that however that they will refuse to work on them.
hydro70guy
Member
I agree mostly with Frantz. But there was no reason to go back to first dealer and tell him he was to high priced then when he said he could come down in price tell him no. That is just asking for or hoping for trouble. Why waste yours ang his time. Why noy go in and say can you beat this price by $500 or $ 1000 then give him a chance and help yourself out. Do not be mad at a dealer for quoting you a price any price when you ask him for one. No dealer is going to or should shoot you his best deal on a deal like that.
Joe
Joe
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
The only prices you can find online for equipment are MSRP. Nobody advertises their "best deal" prices online for equipment. You have to play the game.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
No, it isn't. When there is such a huge difference you need to know why. Maybe the one dealer is doing something for you that the other one isn't. Maybe you're getting something from the one dealer that you're not getting from the other.
It's when the first dealer knee-jerked and immediately offered to match the price, that you know he was just screwing you for $15000. Had he come up with some plausible value added to the customer for the additional $15000, it would be a different story.
Why wouldn't a dealer shoot you his best price? The second dealer did without batting an eyelash.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
A dime and 15K$ is right much different wouldn't you say? And he'd of never known the difference if he didn't go around and ask another dealer.Plus he priced Exactly the same machine both
places far different from what you described.Prices vary now more than ever for exactly the same item pays to shop around,search for something.Look on ebay the exact same item can have a huge
variation in price.
places far different from what you described.Prices vary now more than ever for exactly the same item pays to shop around,search for something.Look on ebay the exact same item can have a huge
variation in price.
First, anytime you use the word "best", you're being dishonest. So why ask for something that simply MUST be dishonest? Pet peeve of mine but to me it sets the conversation in a bad direction.
There are many manufacturing rules in equipment when it comes to advertising prices, that's why online you see many bundle packages. But you can piece through a few of those and get a good idea where things fall pretty quickly. I know Kubota won't let you show a tractor discount by itself, but it really isn't hard to compare a few bundles and put it together and be in the ball park. All this being said, I personally don't care if someone makes a little money off me so long as it's a fair deal. I enjoy being loyal to my local sales folks. It is a two way street.
I'm going to be getting a wood chipper from my local dealer. I found the same model at a dealer about 2 hours away that sorta specialized in shipping them out. It was $500 less, and I'd have to drive 2 hours. , but on $3500 bucks, thats a big percentage. Still I provided this info to the local dealer and got the reasonable difference that theirs was assembled and ready to go, vs a crated up box. For me, there isn't $500 of value in having it put together. But it is 4 hours of driving and probably 2 hours of putting it together. I generally consider my time to be worth $20 for making decisions, so that is $160 there. I know their techs get paid more than $20 too though. Still it shows where I need to be to purchase local I'd I'll try to do, if they won't budge then I'll make the drive. The farther away guy seems in line with near the best on the web for pricing so I feel it's a fair price.
Since my real knowledge is with road vehicles, I'll again say that you really really gotta be careful shopping across state lines. Leftover deals can be had, but if it's not an old unit and it's thousands less, there is probably some interesting pricing laws or fees at play. Get a signed buyers order before making the drive, and ask a trusted local dealer to look it over (or ask folks online in a forum).
There are many manufacturing rules in equipment when it comes to advertising prices, that's why online you see many bundle packages. But you can piece through a few of those and get a good idea where things fall pretty quickly. I know Kubota won't let you show a tractor discount by itself, but it really isn't hard to compare a few bundles and put it together and be in the ball park. All this being said, I personally don't care if someone makes a little money off me so long as it's a fair deal. I enjoy being loyal to my local sales folks. It is a two way street.
I'm going to be getting a wood chipper from my local dealer. I found the same model at a dealer about 2 hours away that sorta specialized in shipping them out. It was $500 less, and I'd have to drive 2 hours. , but on $3500 bucks, thats a big percentage. Still I provided this info to the local dealer and got the reasonable difference that theirs was assembled and ready to go, vs a crated up box. For me, there isn't $500 of value in having it put together. But it is 4 hours of driving and probably 2 hours of putting it together. I generally consider my time to be worth $20 for making decisions, so that is $160 there. I know their techs get paid more than $20 too though. Still it shows where I need to be to purchase local I'd I'll try to do, if they won't budge then I'll make the drive. The farther away guy seems in line with near the best on the web for pricing so I feel it's a fair price.
Since my real knowledge is with road vehicles, I'll again say that you really really gotta be careful shopping across state lines. Leftover deals can be had, but if it's not an old unit and it's thousands less, there is probably some interesting pricing laws or fees at play. Get a signed buyers order before making the drive, and ask a trusted local dealer to look it over (or ask folks online in a forum).
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
I'd say you're wrong on businesses not caring how much they pay.When we used to buy new concrete mixers the company had several plants we'd buy them as a group and get several different quotes from dealers,the more you buy the more pressure you can put on a dealer you should know that.BTW the salesman ain't gonna do squat for the buyer once the sale is made we had our own shop and bought parts from guess who? The dealer that'd give us the best price we were in business to make ourselves money not the truck and equipment dealers.
tomstractorsandtoys
Well-known Member
I guess you would pass on those customers wanting a good price. It is much less work for you to do one $15,000 profit deal than three five thousand dollar deals. Nice way of doing things if it works for your business but in today's world especially ag the customers are more price shoppers because they have to. Tom
Crazy Horse
Well-known Member
Remember back in the day when we had youngsters kicking around the house asking for something? They'd get a "no" from one parent and then go to the other one and get a "yes" ............ not a problem until parent #1 found out and then the sh!t hit the fan. With this tractor thing, first guy was a no, second one was a yes, why go back to the first guy? Hopefully had he beat the second price a trip back to #2 wouldn't have happened.
How is asking for best price dishonest?
Yesterday I bid a 5 million dollar project - sealed low bid got the project. In the final tally our bid was $2700 (.00054) more than the guy who was low. We had 3 guys work full time for 2 weeks estimating this project, they got our best price.
If a dealer can't get within $15,000 of a competitor on a single Kubota tractor he shouldn't be in business.
Yesterday I bid a 5 million dollar project - sealed low bid got the project. In the final tally our bid was $2700 (.00054) more than the guy who was low. We had 3 guys work full time for 2 weeks estimating this project, they got our best price.
If a dealer can't get within $15,000 of a competitor on a single Kubota tractor he shouldn't be in business.
muleboss
Member
- Location
- Burlington, Kansas
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
But...............have you actually done the deal and taken delivery at $15k less than the other dealer?
Until it happens it has not happened.
I can see the cheaper dealer at some point "needing" to adjust the deal upwards in his favor.
Forgot this or that in the quote.
Your trade is not what they expected, etc. etc.
Until it happens it has not happened.
I can see the cheaper dealer at some point "needing" to adjust the deal upwards in his favor.
Forgot this or that in the quote.
Your trade is not what they expected, etc. etc.
I'd have probably been a little quieter about it all to Dealer A. They lost, you kinda rubbed salt in the wound. Since you wisely held to your end of the bargain and took the lowest offer period, there wasn't any point in chasing after Dealer A any more.
It probably would come up in conversation the next time you are there, but I would have tried a quiet approach of I got a better offer somewhere else and left it at that.
If this were John Deere, most of their dealerships are carved up into protected zones, and your zip code would have required the closest dealer to get paid a fee for any new sales, and so both Green dealers would be able to charge you a lot more. Protected, captured sales territory.
I ran into that from a Mahindra dealer years ago, was looking at a farm show a ways away from me, when he learned where I was located, he really didn't talk to me, said I should contact such and such that is in my are, he couldn't really sell to me.
I assume this will be coming soon to all makes, since it works for JD. You won't see dealerships from the same team bidding each other.
Paul
It probably would come up in conversation the next time you are there, but I would have tried a quiet approach of I got a better offer somewhere else and left it at that.
If this were John Deere, most of their dealerships are carved up into protected zones, and your zip code would have required the closest dealer to get paid a fee for any new sales, and so both Green dealers would be able to charge you a lot more. Protected, captured sales territory.
I ran into that from a Mahindra dealer years ago, was looking at a farm show a ways away from me, when he learned where I was located, he really didn't talk to me, said I should contact such and such that is in my are, he couldn't really sell to me.
I assume this will be coming soon to all makes, since it works for JD. You won't see dealerships from the same team bidding each other.
Paul
Fifteen percent is too large a difference for just profit alone. Look into the details to find other differences between the two bids.
Dealers don't always pay the same wholesale price for new equipment. Another difference may be in your trade-in allowance. If the first dealer has several just like your trade-in sitting on his lot, he will probably need to dispose of yours at an auction, so he can only quotes an auction price for your trade-in. If the second dealer has a ready buyer for your trade-in he can give you a better trade-in allowance. Also check the specifications on the new tractor very closely, they may not be including the same options or services.
Service is another thing for you to consider. Will both dealers give you the same level of service or provide a loaner tractor when yours is in the shop and the shop is backed up?
Dealers don't always pay the same wholesale price for new equipment. Another difference may be in your trade-in allowance. If the first dealer has several just like your trade-in sitting on his lot, he will probably need to dispose of yours at an auction, so he can only quotes an auction price for your trade-in. If the second dealer has a ready buyer for your trade-in he can give you a better trade-in allowance. Also check the specifications on the new tractor very closely, they may not be including the same options or services.
Service is another thing for you to consider. Will both dealers give you the same level of service or provide a loaner tractor when yours is in the shop and the shop is backed up?
Best is dishonest because it's an absolute and that doesn't exist, and there for is untrue, and therefor dishonest. I promise if you went back to the best price guy and found someone who had beat it for $100, they would have offered to match it.. so it wasn't really the best, just best at the moment and method you asked, and that doesn't seem to be what you're trying to accomplish with the quote around method. The OP example is rather extreme, and I never have justified the original dealing being upset, I just explained why they may not have been interested in giving a great price upfront. I also didn't suggest you should have just gone with the first price you see. I'm just saying there is a smarter way to do the price shopping and you should focus on good dealer support. Use your research to keep your preferred dealer honest. I'm very much a consumer advocate in sales, ask any of my bosses who wanted me to hold more, but I wrote my own deals so that was that. So some of you guys are not reading the meat behind my statements. You see a sales guy who says getting a bunch of different quotes is dumb and you presume I mean you should let folks take advantage of you, when I've said nothing of the sort.
Saying the salesman can't do anything for you is pretty short sighted too. I went to bat lots of times for my commercial clients. I also helped direct them to quality vendors for aftermarket parts, including ones that I could have sold them but thought it was in their best interest to let them take care of it themselves rather than use me as a middle man. That's the sorta stuff I'm talking about. All you folks getting up uptight (and yeah I'm being uptight too) because I said I am not interested in folks who only want me for a price are missing the real value a good salesperson can offer. That also doesn't mean you have to pay me any more that the "best price" guys. If you're not interested in that, you're not my sorta customer. And that's completely fine, but that was my point to start with. I don't want to just sell something and be done with it, and if you tell me all you care about is the price, then you really aren't likely to get a favorable response from me. I won't be rude, but if you won't come in and work with me then I'll go back to working with my actual customers. Unless it's an all stock unit, there is a fair amount of work that goes into getting the price sorted, and I'm not interested in doing that for you if you're not interested in doing business with me. If it's just a matter of price then again, you should be able to go in and work that deal out with one person. I never minded working off the invoice sheets. For my trucks it listed the holdback as well. What's a fair profit? Lets do this. Don't waste my time and I won't waste yours, but negotiating the price the the easiest part to get done and getting a bunch of quotes isn't the best way to to do it if you're educated in the process.
So yeah, I am not trying to justify the dealer that was $15k off, nor that they were upset with you. My own local equipment folks tend to quote high and that doesn't hurt my feelings. I go through the sales process and end up where I want to be that's fair. It really is that easy. As I said, I live in a competitive market, so perhaps if you're stranded with few options it's harder to work deals this way.
Saying the salesman can't do anything for you is pretty short sighted too. I went to bat lots of times for my commercial clients. I also helped direct them to quality vendors for aftermarket parts, including ones that I could have sold them but thought it was in their best interest to let them take care of it themselves rather than use me as a middle man. That's the sorta stuff I'm talking about. All you folks getting up uptight (and yeah I'm being uptight too) because I said I am not interested in folks who only want me for a price are missing the real value a good salesperson can offer. That also doesn't mean you have to pay me any more that the "best price" guys. If you're not interested in that, you're not my sorta customer. And that's completely fine, but that was my point to start with. I don't want to just sell something and be done with it, and if you tell me all you care about is the price, then you really aren't likely to get a favorable response from me. I won't be rude, but if you won't come in and work with me then I'll go back to working with my actual customers. Unless it's an all stock unit, there is a fair amount of work that goes into getting the price sorted, and I'm not interested in doing that for you if you're not interested in doing business with me. If it's just a matter of price then again, you should be able to go in and work that deal out with one person. I never minded working off the invoice sheets. For my trucks it listed the holdback as well. What's a fair profit? Lets do this. Don't waste my time and I won't waste yours, but negotiating the price the the easiest part to get done and getting a bunch of quotes isn't the best way to to do it if you're educated in the process.
So yeah, I am not trying to justify the dealer that was $15k off, nor that they were upset with you. My own local equipment folks tend to quote high and that doesn't hurt my feelings. I go through the sales process and end up where I want to be that's fair. It really is that easy. As I said, I live in a competitive market, so perhaps if you're stranded with few options it's harder to work deals this way.
I appreciate a lot of what you are saying, and hearing your (the salesman) point of view.
But it still somehow comes across as, I know how much you should spend more than you the customer should, and it's easy to screw you on
the price when I have you in the office "that is the easy part......"
As I see it, the fella came in with a sealed bid spec, and the dealer's could price it how they wanted, period. It doesn't get much easier than that
for the salesman, no wasted time at all. A salesmans job is to put together sales offers, so yes they take time but that -is- the job description.
It must be embarrassing for Dealer A to be that far off, man did he screw up on his job. A salesman should know his job, and must have terribly
misread the customer.
It is that easy.
I was looking for a machine shed 6-7 years ago. Went to the regional farm show event where a doxpzen or more builders display.
I narrowed it down two 2 places I liked, the others had a girlfriend hand out fliers that didn't really know what a truss was, or no one around, or
just didn't connect with me. Of those two I felt comfortable with, I'm still waiting for the one salesman to get back to me. The other one had the
shed up 4 months later I was putting machinery in it. I actually thought the salesman I worked with was a jerk, but I wanted the shed and he
was the only one that even talked to me a second time. I'm real happy with the shed, the salesman had quit by the following year.
It's pretty simple?
Again, I really appreciate your comments here, and don't mean to be a sourpuss. I'm sure both sides of the desk have lots of stories to tell, and
beefs to bring up on dealings with wanna be salesmen/customers, and a discussion like this brings the worst of both to mind pretty quickly. It is
much better when the relationship works well.
But $15,000 off on a single tractor, that is a little hard to defend with a straight face on a sealed bid type transaction?
Paul
But it still somehow comes across as, I know how much you should spend more than you the customer should, and it's easy to screw you on
the price when I have you in the office "that is the easy part......"
As I see it, the fella came in with a sealed bid spec, and the dealer's could price it how they wanted, period. It doesn't get much easier than that
for the salesman, no wasted time at all. A salesmans job is to put together sales offers, so yes they take time but that -is- the job description.
It must be embarrassing for Dealer A to be that far off, man did he screw up on his job. A salesman should know his job, and must have terribly
misread the customer.
It is that easy.
I was looking for a machine shed 6-7 years ago. Went to the regional farm show event where a doxpzen or more builders display.
I narrowed it down two 2 places I liked, the others had a girlfriend hand out fliers that didn't really know what a truss was, or no one around, or
just didn't connect with me. Of those two I felt comfortable with, I'm still waiting for the one salesman to get back to me. The other one had the
shed up 4 months later I was putting machinery in it. I actually thought the salesman I worked with was a jerk, but I wanted the shed and he
was the only one that even talked to me a second time. I'm real happy with the shed, the salesman had quit by the following year.
It's pretty simple?
Again, I really appreciate your comments here, and don't mean to be a sourpuss. I'm sure both sides of the desk have lots of stories to tell, and
beefs to bring up on dealings with wanna be salesmen/customers, and a discussion like this brings the worst of both to mind pretty quickly. It is
much better when the relationship works well.
But $15,000 off on a single tractor, that is a little hard to defend with a straight face on a sealed bid type transaction?
Paul
I never said trust the wolf about pricing. You need to keep your dealer honest, if only so you're comfortable with the deal. I said there are smarter, quicker, and more accurate ways to know what the deal should look like, and there are smarter things to be concerned with from a dealer than what their initial price is. I agree with everyone who says $15k for community service is a crock. But there are likely shortcuts taken if they are seeming to be taking a loss on every deal. We all know that's not a real business model (and regardless of what you want to believe, it's not that every other dealer is ripping people off). Some folks are able to weed through it all and make those deals work, I get that. Frankly they tend to rip folks off in another channel, such as finance or aftermarket stuff (at least in the truck world). So if you're comfortable saving a few hundred bucks because you're good enough to not get ripped off, but know that you're buying from someone who sells em that cheap because they are ripping off 8 outta 10 folks some other way, good on you. I don't feel morally obligated to want you as a customer though. You're getting ahead through a business that practices in shady things, that doesn't make them a better salesperson than myself IMO. Sometimes there are just better deals somewhere else. Old units and special dealer sales and such. Generally though you can get that deal from your local guys if you have a reputation and relationship with them. I said I made $60k in truck sales (it was $57 my last year, but I rounded up). That's not bad. There are plenty of folks making plenty more money on the same number of units as me. But I have customers who are excited to hear I'm getting back into the industry and had some of them write me referrals because I'm looking to switch to a dealer with a better reputation on service. Those are the things that matter to me. I have a pretty kick butt reputation with helping folks on the Ford-Trucks forum too, helping folks who won't likely ever buy from me get education. That did usually earn me a small handful of sales a year too though.
One last thought and I'll leave this discussion, unless someone has a question I can answer for them. If you go to any of the sales people facebook pages, the sales folks cry that the internet is ruining sales, not that folks asking for quotes are. You don't have to ask for quotes when you have the internet at your finger tips.
Using hedges and puts and margin calls and hedge to arrive is very easy to sell grain too.
If you know how. If you have worked on it a while. If you spent a lot of time researching it.
Maybe it looks easy from your side of the desk to get a simple price on a piece of equipment, but from the farmer customer who is focused on
producing grain or livestock, the implement sales desk is a terrible place to spend an afternoon in an element that is -your- domain, not mine.
Nothing there is 'easy' for most customers.
It is where you are comfortable. Maybe a lot of folk on the other side of the desk are quite uncomfortable?
Really, this negotiating prices on big ticket new items is for the birds. The old Saturn model where they had a real price and that is what it sold
for eliminated all the goofing around and making people feel taken advantage of.
It would lessen the number of sales people needed - not get rid of you, but put the spotlight on you helping with the rest of the transaction, not
all this back and forth bickering on prices.
It is a situation you as the salesman are very much in control of, and control usually leads to a feeling of being taken advantage of.
I don't think I'm disagreeing with you directly, just a different view of it all maybe.
Again, appreciate your side of things.
Paul
If you know how. If you have worked on it a while. If you spent a lot of time researching it.
Maybe it looks easy from your side of the desk to get a simple price on a piece of equipment, but from the farmer customer who is focused on
producing grain or livestock, the implement sales desk is a terrible place to spend an afternoon in an element that is -your- domain, not mine.
Nothing there is 'easy' for most customers.
It is where you are comfortable. Maybe a lot of folk on the other side of the desk are quite uncomfortable?
Really, this negotiating prices on big ticket new items is for the birds. The old Saturn model where they had a real price and that is what it sold
for eliminated all the goofing around and making people feel taken advantage of.
It would lessen the number of sales people needed - not get rid of you, but put the spotlight on you helping with the rest of the transaction, not
all this back and forth bickering on prices.
It is a situation you as the salesman are very much in control of, and control usually leads to a feeling of being taken advantage of.
I don't think I'm disagreeing with you directly, just a different view of it all maybe.
Again, appreciate your side of things.
Paul
Agreed. When we ask for pricing for 12 trucks its not because we want to kick some tires. We are looking for a quoted price. We spec the trucks we want and ask for a number - the guy with the lowest number gets to sell 12 trucks. The other guys can keep sitting by the phone.
Local dealerships admit they don't know how to compete for commercial sales and can't understand how other dealers can be $2000 - $5000 less than their price on the same truck. I even had one guy tell me I was lying about the price after he called wanting to know if we were buying from him. They need to stick with telling some dude how manly he looks in his "truck" and explain how he can make the payments fit his budget.
Local dealerships admit they don't know how to compete for commercial sales and can't understand how other dealers can be $2000 - $5000 less than their price on the same truck. I even had one guy tell me I was lying about the price after he called wanting to know if we were buying from him. They need to stick with telling some dude how manly he looks in his "truck" and explain how he can make the payments fit his budget.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
You need to get my wife to work on them,she is a salesman's worst nightmare(LOL).
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
You know the answer all that stuff is just salesman's trash talk.
I dislike used car sales, too many variables I can't control on the quality of the product. Not that I don't sell em, but I never made them my bread and butter even though the profits are much higher there. The reason I originally left was because I know that profession car sales positions are not going to be around forever. However, the direction I went isn't right for me and I am happy making a good income for a few years while I get my own business off the ground. No doubt the general buying public doesn't understand the value of a good salesman and that may be because there aren't enough good salesmen to start with. I'd not argue with that.
I did answer about quotes for myself in explaining how I do business. I gave several examples. I don't get quotes, I research pricing and then get one quote and work down to what I want with the person/company that I want to do business with. I don't trust their quote, nor do I judge them by it. I use my research to justify the price I want and roll forward with the deal. It seriously saves lots of time.
Several possibilities. It's possible you were working with retail folks and they didn't understand how fleet pricing works, cause it's different than normal rebates entirely. If you got quotes from different states, that's a whole different can of beans and you probably didn't get the deal you think you did. But certainly, if you're commercial in nature you're so much better off with a commercial professional. The retail guys aren't trying to suck at the job, it's just an entirely different can of worms.
I did answer about quotes for myself in explaining how I do business. I gave several examples. I don't get quotes, I research pricing and then get one quote and work down to what I want with the person/company that I want to do business with. I don't trust their quote, nor do I judge them by it. I use my research to justify the price I want and roll forward with the deal. It seriously saves lots of time.
Several possibilities. It's possible you were working with retail folks and they didn't understand how fleet pricing works, cause it's different than normal rebates entirely. If you got quotes from different states, that's a whole different can of beans and you probably didn't get the deal you think you did. But certainly, if you're commercial in nature you're so much better off with a commercial professional. The retail guys aren't trying to suck at the job, it's just an entirely different can of worms.
?He then got defensive and asked what the other dealers price is?
You didn?t do anything wrong. If anything you delivered a powerful message, want my business, WORK for it. It?s YOUR money that?s being spent, not the whiny sales guy that ASKED for the other dealer?s price. Funny how he was ready to price match. Maybe next time.
Sounds like you got a great buy on a great tractor. Hope it serves you well for a long time.
You didn?t do anything wrong. If anything you delivered a powerful message, want my business, WORK for it. It?s YOUR money that?s being spent, not the whiny sales guy that ASKED for the other dealer?s price. Funny how he was ready to price match. Maybe next time.
Sounds like you got a great buy on a great tractor. Hope it serves you well for a long time.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Those Dale Carnegie courses really get into some folk's heads.
That's the way I bought the last truck for work. Here is the truck I want, listed all options. Told each dealer this is how I'm doing it, give me your best price whoever is lowest will get the sale, no bs no second chances. Lowest guy got the sale and will go see him for the next truck we need.
TerryB Illinois
Member
So it is ok for the dealer to play games but when the shoe is on the other foot it is wasting your time. Sounds like what's good for th goose is good for the gander.
Frantz: Hate to tell you this but many of us look at sales people being as being bottom feeders. You ain't the buyers friend and never will be. A true friend would waive a commission for a friend. By the same token a true friend would never ask that the commission be waived.
If I want someone to act as a purchasing agent then I will hire one. I darn sure am not going to trust the sales person to be my agent too. Big conflict of interest there.
On average most satisfied customers never fill out surveys. Mostly it's the ones who don't think everything was good. So if you are convincing customers to fill out favorable ones you really are lucky as you have found some gullible fish to skin.
Rick
kcm.MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- NW Minnesota
Same here -- disappointed.
I "also" will fill out surveys when/if things go exceptionally well. It's not good when all someone hears is negative stuff all the time.
Whenever I have to speak with a Customer Service Rep, I always try to keep in mind that they're just a working stiff. They didn't cause the problem. Sometimes I'll get a Rep that's so bad I have to complete the survey because that person needs to be working a different job. ....ANY job!
As for sales people, that's how they earn their living. Should I feel somehow "privileged" because I happen to know him or her?? Should I "expect" them to take money out of their pocket (giving up their commission) just so I can buy something?? If I feel I'm being taken for a ride, I'll go elsewhere or do without. If not, I'll buy. I think most people are this way.
I "also" will fill out surveys when/if things go exceptionally well. It's not good when all someone hears is negative stuff all the time.
Whenever I have to speak with a Customer Service Rep, I always try to keep in mind that they're just a working stiff. They didn't cause the problem. Sometimes I'll get a Rep that's so bad I have to complete the survey because that person needs to be working a different job. ....ANY job!
As for sales people, that's how they earn their living. Should I feel somehow "privileged" because I happen to know him or her?? Should I "expect" them to take money out of their pocket (giving up their commission) just so I can buy something?? If I feel I'm being taken for a ride, I'll go elsewhere or do without. If not, I'll buy. I think most people are this way.
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