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Why is it so hard to get people to do things now days

G

Graveyard1984

Member
Ive got a tractor thats needs a clutch.
Ive been calling a local guy that does
equipment repair he never returns my
calls, another one says he rather not
do it, cant find no one to do the
clutch. Called my local tractor dealer
and they refused it also.
Why do people not want to do anything.
I understand that its a big job. I just
ain't never done it or id do it my
self. People now days are lazy and no
one keeps their word and you can't get
anyone to do anything now days.
It is just frustrating got a good
tractor that you cant use or get
repaired
 
I've been thinking the same thing, been trying to get Lime spread on my fields since January, people just dragging around and "will do it next week"
 
Speed, quality, price. Pick any two to determine the third.

Spring tillage season is about to start any day now as soon as the weather allows. Some shops are swamped with last minute repairs and tight deadlines.
 
I understand what your talking about, and I also understand the other side of the story. Fellas running dear ships , are in the business of selling and serving the new equipment that they offer for sale. And yes they do sell some used equipment. Probably won?t mess with the used stuff, but often have to take the customers used equipment in on trade to be able to sell them the new one. And yes, they sometimes will do repairs for long time customers on their older equipment, but a wise business man will go the extra mile to keep a long term customer happy, so when they want to buy the next new piece, you will still have a good relationship. It is all about marketing. And a dealer knows his long term customers ability, and habits when it comes to paying the bills. No sense in running a shop doing repair work , if you can?t/ aren?t going to get paid. Dealer ship shops really aren?t looking for repair work, it is more of a service.
Same kind of thing applies to shops that just do equipment repairs, they need to know that you will pay the bill for the work, and the older the tractor is, the greater the risk the customer will go nuts when they see how large the bills can get. Just like with your tractor for example. You haven?t told us about your tractor, so we don?t know what make or model, and does it have a loader, cab or 4 wheel drive. So let?s assume it is a small open station tractor, with no loader. . Simple tractor , just has to be split, remove and reinstall and adjust. Let say 3-4 hours shop time, for a good mechanic with a well equipped shop. $3-400.00 Then things can grow from there, does the fly wheel need to be turned at a machine shop? This would also be the time to change the ring gear if it is bad, as well as replace a leaking main crank seal. Does it just need a clutch plate or is the entire clutch assembly beat, are parts going to be available, is this split tractor going to sit in the shop taking up space for best part of a week, waiting for parts? Remember this job is only 3-4 hours shop time, and the valuable shop floor space is going to be occupied for several days. While other jobs wait. And when the repairs are all completed, and the bill is made up, The tractor owner says this bill is too much, I am not paying, you can just keep the darn tractor, the repair man just wants what is coming to him , he doesn?t want to have to try to resell some old tractor that might not be worth the cost of repairs.
And this in a nutshell is why it is hard to find a repair shop willing to take on these jobs. If you find a good repair shop, build up a good business relationship with them, and no problems. Just too often folks will screw the repair guys around when it comes time to pay . With stories like, oh I am a bit short, can I have time to pay. Repair shops aren?t finance companies, they have bills to pay, and need to work for customers they know will pay their billls in full and on time.
So they are reluctant to take on expensive repairs, on older low value tractors and equipment, can you blame a guy for that?
 
When I was living at the other farm I where I have a big shop I'd do work for others sometimes and had to be very careful what I worked on and who I worked for as as you say the repair would often run into more than the tractor was worth.I'd at least get the cost of the parts up front. Had a guy come by and wanted a clutch put in a Ford 5000 told him I didn't have time to get
involved in something like that at that time.He told me its wasn't a big deal that someone told him it it'd take about an hour.Took him off the customer list right quick.
 
A tractor clutch replacement is a PITA to do, and on many older tractors the cost to do it at a dealership can exceed the value of the tractor. No dealership wants to be stuck with an old tractor whose owner refused to pay for completed repairs. And if an independent shop is busy, they're more likely to stick with jobs that don't require a tractor split.

What is stopping you from doing it yourself? You say you've never done it before, but there has to be a first time for everything. Assuming you've got a reasonably well-equipped tool box and a good manual for the tractor, the job (on most tractors) is well within the skills of a typical hobbyist. And it will spare you the aggravation and expense of transporting the tractor to a shop.
 
After having split two tractors I would hate to put a price on that job. I imagine they don't want to do it because the labor cost is so high they are afraid they will do the job and people will change their mind and not pick up the tractor. The tractor repair shop in my town when out of business.
 
I did a clutch in an old ford tractor for a guy that buys hay from me. Only reason I took it on is that I have a neighbor kid who wants to be a mechanic and I let him do most of the wrench turning, while I did other things and supervised. He got paid for his time and learned a lot, meanwhile saving the guy quite a bit of money. Wasn't much in it for me, however, but the satisfaction of helping two different folks out a little!
 
Why do people not want to do anything.
Click to expand...

It's a throw-away society nowadays. Nobody wants to or can fix anything it seems.
The new motto is: "Broken? Replace!"

We just had a power surge (after someone hit the power-pole next to our house).
All electronic stuff is fried.
Almost new washer and drier fried.
[b:c96ef544fd]Drier cost approximately $600 brand new. The control board to fix it costs $650 plus $50 for labor![/b:c96ef544fd]
 
You might offer to pay up front. That way they know they are getting paid. Have them give you an estimate that you pay up front and finalize the real total at the end.
 
I don't know where you guys are getting this idea that a split and a simple clutch replacement is such a big job that nobody wants to tackle.

That's bread and butter to a repair shop. Most open station tractors, a mediochre mechanic can have it apart and back together in less than a day. All you need is a good floor, a good floor jack, plenty of wooden cribbing, and the right wrenches. To make the job easier and safer, even the crudest splitting stands which you can make out of a couple of pieces of C-channel or square tube with no welding required, will be a big help.

What you've got to get out of your head is that these places are just sitting around waiting for you to call. They have other customers, and probably a shop full of work. You wouldn't want a guy that's just sitting around to do the work because there's a reason he's just sitting around, and it's probably that he's a poor mechanic.

Consider other reasons why you may be getting refused as well... Is it even REMOTELY possible that you've got a "reputation" around town? As a complainer maybe? Nobody wants to deal with a difficult customer, so if that's even remotely a possibility, you may need to go to one of these mechanics, hat in hand and say "look I know I've been difficult in the past, but if you'll give me another chance..."
 

Very simple answer. It is the unemployment rate. Everybody has plenty of work. The problem is that they cannot hire workers.Everyone that runs a business is constantly running around sticking his finger in a new hole in the dyke. Support your local Mexican illegal smuggler!!!
 
with an attitude that the shop owes you a service, I do not believe they need the work. The repairman is to be respected and considered. You do not own him find a reputable shop and ask if the repair is feasible but do not try hold him to a cost of repair. I did repair work for several years and wish I had been more careful what work I accepteed
 
"Most open station tractors, a mediochre mechanic can have it apart and back together in less than a day."

You don't come across as someone who has done a lot of "clutch jobs" in the real world, not to mention on older tractors.

Pretty tough to keep that schedule unless you are set up to grind flywheels "in house" or have a machine shop that's not too busy right next door!

What if the flywheel turns out to be beyond grinding?

What if the pilot bearing area or the splines on the pilot shaft are worn, and it has to be replaced, requiring another "split" farther back?

If "live PTO", there's another set off splines and associated parts there, as well.

What if the aforementioned parts happen to get backordered?

What shape are the clutch fork and pilot tube going to be in? Mite have to order some parts there, and WAIT for those.

What if the clutch parts you had ordered in for the clutch job don't fit (error, or serial # break, etc., etc., etc.).

NONE of that stuff, plus a bunch of other things can be predetermined, before the split, and can tie up a shop bay for DAYS while you wait for parts and service.

I have learned when dealing with older stuff sometimes it gets to be more of a "partial restoration" than a simple "repair job".

In the meantime, how many smaller jobs or jobs with less variables could have been pushed through that same bay?
 
Yesterday I took my 11 yr. old pickup to a local repair shop for State inspection to find I had a worn lower ball joint. I can't do them anymore so I told them to go ahead and replace it knowing that I could count on their job from previous experiences with the mechanic.
Before even asking for an estimate the manager spouted out with the cost. He had consulted his shop rate manual and that's what I was going to pay! Knowing the same repair would take me 2 times longer in my cold garage I consented.
He said that there would be 1.8 hrs. labor The repair took about 1 hour. The guy that did the repair knew me so he kindly rotated my tires and put it on alignment machine (which it needed both) and got the other .8 hrs.
The new manager would have still charged me for 1.8 hr. even if it took 1 hr. I'm lucky I got a mechanic that looked out for me.
If your repair is not in a shop rate manual many shops don't want to touch them. And many don't know how to estimate! So instead of a straight we can do this or not, we get maybe or we don't have time and they focus on quicker money.
 
I was just about to say exactly what you said. When I was "in the business" there were times when we got stuck with a repaired vehicle that wasn't worth the cost of repairs when finished.
 
When I ran a shop I lengthened a 40 ft semi trailer to 48ft for a fellow and all went well. It was a pretty good size Job and all went well but took up a lot of space and took up the time of my best welder lots of labor and little material.. A few weeks later his dad wanted his also lengthened. I did not have room for it and the best welder had other work started. He saw one of the less experienced welders out on the road with a load of pipe to be installed. The old man asked if his money was not good enough and that I should have had his semi trailer on the lot to be modified. After the remark about his money, I would not have done it at all. I was irritated that he wanted to interfere with my business!! Afterall, I had more work than my men could do.
 
If you don't have a good local mechanic buy a manual and do it yourself. Ain't rocket science but it is work that you have to approach carefully so as not to damage yourself or the tractor. Don't get hung up on a time frame either. There is no such thing as a one day clutch job. Sure you can do it in that amount of time once in a while but that time won't all be in the same day even when you get lucky. There is alway's something else to go along with just replacing the clutch.
 
After searching for some one to replace my septic tank, I have come to the conclusion that in ten years there will be no more persons providing any type of handy-man or Jake-leg, services. Partially because of the stupidity of government regulations and partly because no one wants to actually "work" for a living. Most of the people in my area that have always been a reliable source to call on for any number of around the house and farm repairs, have all gotten to old or have passed away. You can no longer hire a kid or even an adult to do menial day jobs. And if you do, you'll find that often the desired pay is as much as $100 a day.
I, too, have a tractor that needs a clutch replaced. Nobody local to do it. I have an older riding lawn mower that needs a little touch up to get it back to usefulness. No one to do it. The lure of big money, short hours, or simply, government handouts have killed the blue-collar work ethic.
And, yes, I know there are exceptions.
Government regulations and a throw-it-away society haven't help the situation either.
 
True. And to add to my rant up above, that statement, "We'll be there next Tuesday." or "They'll be there next week." has turned into, not just a joke, but a down-right lie. Most know when they say it that they're not coming at that time.
 
What do you have for a tractor? Clutches are usually a straight forward job (with the potential for extra parts needed after getting it apart). Some off brand or gray market tractors are difficult at best to find parts for. In my shop I try to help everyone but there are some models/repairs that I will turn down next time. I am always busy with a waiting list and sometimes don't need another 'educational experience' while other jobs are piling up. 'Poor reputation' as a customer has been mentioned and that is something to think about. Do you have a regular trusted shop that you go to (and what did they tell you?) or do you jump around? Customer relations is a two way street. Tell us what you are working on to begin with to get the most educated answers.
 
and the sad part of it all is it's not a real hard job if you have the tools to do it, most of us have to make up our own tools and stands to do just one job, real pain. it seems to be the same here as well. calls not returned, promises broke, and the list goes on.
 
That was my first thoughts , does not take long for the word to get around hey that guy is a cheap skate or he is a whiner and shops will just turn the guy down. Too much work out there now days that pays good to take on problematic customers . Not saying that is the case but the fact that a clutch job can tie up the shop space for time also could be a problem. Again it would also help to know the model of the tractor , there are some that are more difficult than others.
 
Let me enlighten you about that 1.8 hours.

That time is based upon an average vehicle in an average shop with average tools doing the job and accounting for "extras" like broken or corroded fasteners. They call that "flat rate" time. Most normal circumstances will allow a mechanic to complete the job in a b it less time than called for. However, there are also times when the called out flat rate is LESS that the time it actually takes to get the job done.

Most mechanics work under the flat rate system. Keep in mind that there is time lost in between jobs. Time for paperwork. Time to bring a vehicle in or out of the shop. Time to road test when necessary. This all figures in.

The rate you were quoted was a FAIR PRICE. If it took the mechanic less time to do the job, that means he is skilled and experienced. Should he be penalized for that? The fact that he did extra work for you is generous of him, but he should also be PAID FOR THAT WORK!!

One of the many reasons that customers are not allowed in shops is the very reason that you just outlined. A customer standing there timing the job so that he does not pay for more time than it takes.

Know this: most mechanics in most shops are not paid by the hour. Most are paid only for the labor that they produce. They are not standing around getting paid by the hour in between jobs. Making a decent living that way HONESTLY is not an easy task.

I speak from first hand experience. I worked many years in a flat rate shop.
 

I worked for a John Deere dealer back in the early '70s. The 4010 and 4020 were the current tractors. We did many Clutch replacements. The flat rate manual allowed 6 hours. IF everything was right, it COULD be done.

At todays per hour shop labor rates, that job would cost at least $600, not including parts.
 
I'm 81 years old and have been doing tractor repairs out of the back of my pickup since I retired in 2000. I told all my regular customers (friends) a few years ago that I cannot do major repairs like clutch & and TA or climbing on roof of cabs for air conditioning work. They kept right on calling me and asking if I would do it. I did still do minor jobs until last year when all I did was a few for a couple friends . They keep asking though. Knees are shot, wife is house bound. Official consultant I guess.
 
(quoted from post at 10:29:05 04/06/18) Let me enlighten you about that 1.8 hours.

That time is based upon an average vehicle in an average shop with average tools doing the job and accounting for "extras" like broken or corroded fasteners. They call that "flat rate" time. Most normal circumstances will allow a mechanic to complete the job in a b it less time than called for. However, there are also times when the called out flat rate is LESS that the time it actually takes to get the job done.

Most mechanics work under the flat rate system. Keep in mind that there is time lost in between jobs. Time for paperwork. Time to bring a vehicle in or out of the shop. Time to road test when necessary. This all figures in.

The rate you were quoted was a FAIR PRICE. If it took the mechanic less time to do the job, that means he is skilled and experienced. Should he be penalized for that? The fact that he did extra work for you is generous of him, but he should also be PAID FOR THAT WORK!!

One of the many reasons that customers are not allowed in shops is the very reason that you just outlined. A customer standing there timing the job so that he does not pay for more time than it takes.

Know this: most mechanics in most shops are not paid by the hour. Most are paid only for the labor that they produce. They are not standing around getting paid by the hour in between jobs. Making a decent living that way HONESTLY is not an easy task.

I speak from first hand experience. I worked many years in a flat rate shop.
Click to expand...

I cannot and would not disagree with you one bit. I know for a certainty that this fine young man is not paid flat rate. Notice I said I was lucky that I had a competent and kind mechanic.
In this case a newly hired manager from a different location stated that it will cost 1.8 hrs. labor and I was fine with that.
I know what that job can entail.
The mechanic spoke to the gen. manager whom I've known for 30 yrs. and said he did the extra work. The GM wrote the invoice using their Shop Labor rate which was posted. Plus the cost of the State inspection.
I graciously thanked them and showed my appreciation for their care.
This is why I have taken 4 vehicles for inspection so far this year and 2 for new tires and a few other minor repairs to this business.
My point was if they are truly a flat rate shop then the mechanic needs to get flat rate as well. In turn if that job took 2.5 hrs. I was willing to pay the additional cost.
Not meaning to ruffle feathers, there are alot of great guys out there doing good things but sometime newer lesser trained or unexperienced let numbers dictate.
Incidentally I didn't go into shop or ask for these extras.
If I had asked the GM to estimate a larger project he would have been able to do so, based on his experience and ability to find available parts. I've also been to other shops that weren't able to quote outside they're flat labor rate information, referencing the OP.
I should have stated these points in my earlier post.
 
Some think when you reach your 80's that you did it ten years ago and your still breathing why can't you do it now!

Of course I keep asking myself the same question. :)^D
 
$100 a day for an eight hour day is only $12.50 per hour, $25,000 per year if the work is full time. That is about minimum wage to hire anyone who can pass a drug test, a shop needs to charge about three times their labor cost to be profitable. Money may be tight, but if offering half the going rate or less I would not be surprised to get a lot of polite declines, and a maybe a few that are less than polite.
 
After 36 years repairing tractors I can tell you this, I don't need practice, or need something to do. If you need something fixed, it will cost you money. If you want it done cheap take it somewhere else. If you think it is so easy or simple, than do it yourself. If you could do it your self, but don't have the shop or tools, than go buy them just like I did. If you appreciate the quality, experience, or value of the mechanic than maybe he will take on your job. No good wrench wants a customer telling him how to repair something, or what it should cost. If he does take on a job leave him alone till its done. No one likes to be bugged over and over about progress. When its done pay your bill. If you don't have the money to repair your tractor then don't expect a shop to finance you. Clutch jobs are not high on the gravy list of tasks so don't be surprised if a busy shop doesn't jump on this job. Offer to pay a fair price. Offer to pay with CASH. this always helps. Al
 
I have finally gotten to the point where I will turn away a job that I know will be unprofitable or just a major headache. Only took me 34 years ! I have also had to fire a couple customers over the years because they were too stressful to be worth it.
 
Depending on the area, it is a challenge to find a good, do-all mechanic who can/has worked on older tractors.

I found an excellent father/son team who had a hand written business card on the wall at the local parts store. Their card mostly offered hydraulic work and welding but at the bottom it mentioned tractor repairs.

Turns out, they do a fair amount of heavy equipment repair and offer a few speciality items out of their shop. They also do mobile repairs.

They have been great and have made some decent money off of me. First time I talked to them found out they used older masseys on their farm and are familiar with them, so that was a bonus.

For small things, they have been great at accommodating me - came out same day and did a valve adjustment on a 1080, replaced the starter in the snow on my truck that was loaded Up with hay and another blizzard moving in the next day (glad I had them do that one - turns out starter on a mid-90's Chevy is tricky to get at).

For bigger jobs - total overhaul of a 165 gasser - I waited a while until he had shop space for me and then the job took a ton longer than I thought, and ended up costing a fair amount more than originally quoted (not more than I expected...I figured things would come up as he got deeper into the job).
I have been waiting over a year to get a preventative overhaul on my 265...he has called a few times, ready to arrange to pick up, but something has come up for him. Supposed to head to his place Sunday or Monday...If it doesn't...I will wait patiently...he does good work and is thorough. I get that working on my old stuff is not a huge, quick profit...but he does make money and my checks always clear. So, as long as he gets to me someday...I am a-ok. Engines are not my specialty and I have too much other stuff going on. I have more than one tractor to complete any job so I can wait. The things I need done ASAP - broken hay equipment on a summer afternoon - I do myself. Then it gets done on my time frame.
 
I don't think it has anything to do with being lazy. I think they either have plenty of more money making jobs or could be they don't want to tie up there shop with some odd ball antique that's likely going to be trouble finding parts, or it could be that you have a less than stellar reputation around the area as far as paying the bill or just being a general pain in the azz customer, no shortage of them. What are we working on anyway, Cub cadet or a Steiger???
 
(quoted from post at 04:50:07 04/06/18) I don't know where you guys are getting this idea that a split and a simple clutch replacement is such a big job that nobody wants to tackle.

That's bread and butter to a repair shop. Most open station tractors, a mediochre mechanic can have it apart and back together in less than a day. All you need is a good floor, a good floor jack, plenty of wooden cribbing, and the right wrenches. To make the job easier and safer, even the crudest splitting stands which you can make out of a couple of pieces of C-channel or square tube with no welding required, will be a big help.

What you've got to get out of your head is that these places are just sitting around waiting for you to call. They have other customers, and probably a shop full of work. You wouldn't want a guy that's just sitting around to do the work because there's a reason he's just sitting around, and it's probably that he's a poor mechanic.

Consider other reasons why you may be getting refused as well... Is it even REMOTELY possible that you've got a "reputation" around town? As a complainer maybe? Nobody wants to deal with a difficult customer, so if that's even remotely a possibility, you may need to go to one of these mechanics, hat in hand and say "look I know I've been difficult in the past, but if you'll give me another chance..."
Click to expand...

Well Barnyard, I can't see where anyone who posted before you said that it is "such a big job." Maybe you did one and thought it was a big job but now you feel ready to tackle another one?
 
(quoted from post at 17:06:19 04/06/18) Lot of guys have been killed trying to split tractors without the correct equipment
Click to expand...

Actually Tony S. I believe that it is only two.
 
To say if this job is an easy one, or hard one will take a little information. What brand, what model. A john Deere 4020 isn't to bad to do. 6-10 hrs easy, no big deal. John Deere 7520 40hrs or more, big shop area needed, heavy lifting and moving equipment. Big deal. Both tractors from the same company from the same time period. One can be done in a driveway. One needs someone who has experience, and an outfitted shop. So what tractor are we talking?? Al
 
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