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Negotiating with the Pipeline Company

I

in-too-deep

Well-known Member
Talk about opening a can of worms!

The pasture land my wife and I own is on the planned Line 3 crude oil pipe route. We have been
approached by the pipeline company, Enbridge, about paying us for the right-of-way.

So far I have asked them to move the pipe route to follow our property boundary instead of straight
through the middle through some highly erodable sloping ground. They have agreed and are sending me a
revised map. Now, this is where the negotiations begin, correct?

For the sake of argument, let's say they want 10 acres of easement. I don't have any hard numbers yet.
This is what I'm thinking should be included in their payment:

1. The baseline market value or more per acre for those 10 acres.
2. Disturbed soil gets restored with a pasture seed blend and WEEDS CONTROLLED.
3. Fence constructed to keep my cows off the new seeding until re-established or cost to build said
fence reimbursed
4. Compensation for lost grazing until grass is re-established.
5. Perimeter fences replaced after excavation.

What am I missing? Never done this before.

This is light sandy/gravel soil and might be hard to get growing again without enough rain. Our big
concern is being left with a useless weed patch like some other pipelines I've seen. Is there any way
to make sure the grass gets restored?

What should I know about the process? Not really interested in hiring a lawyer, but I know it would be
wise.

Thank you for any advice and yes, I know this is a tractor forum, but I think it's valuable to hear
from folks that have dealt with this personally. Thank you.
 
Good luck with that. I'd say your expectations are a bit, shall we say, amplified.

After all, all they're buying is an easement, not the property itself.
 
They may be buying just the easement, but they are essentially doing him out of the use of his property, either temporarily, or permanently, depending on how badly they, or more likely their hired contractors screw it up. As the owner, he is still liable for taxes, environmental damage, etc. If the pipeline renders it unusable, he needs to have some recourse, and it sounds to me like he is trying to get that covered up front, rather than trusting the company to do right by him afterwards.
 
(quoted from post at 22:52:22 04/04/18) That's why I posted. 'Cause I've never done this.
Click to expand...

I believe there are attorneys who specialize in this type of thing.
In the long run, it may well be worth the cost to hire one.
JMHO
 
He may not be liable for taxes as most easements for utilities pay property taxes also. As has already been mentioned, you may not get all that you wish but I would agree that it is better to negotiate with a high demand at the beginning and settle for more than you expected.
 
is it useable ground now? and if they going along boundry ...on your neighbors too or just you?
 
It sounds like you need a lawyer. Other consideration that they might conveniently forget to mention:

What happens after the pipeline is installed?

Do you need to keep the ground clear (no trees?) forever?

Can they go in with heavy machinery whenever they want?

What happens if there's a leak that contaminates the soil?
 
Yes, usable pasture. Been grass for a LONG time. Just our property running north and south along west side.
 
Yes. That's been on my mind. Those are the kinda things I want to figure out before we sign anything, or even meet with the land agent.
 
I have never been in that situation, but I would be inclined to ask for the cash I think it would take to restore the grass instead of trying to get the pipeline co to do it. Yes, it would be taking a bit of risk, but then you have control over how the field/pasture is prepped for planting, what is seeded ect. And the pipline co is done once the soil is back in place. The developer gets an easy put in exchange for a check, you can probably negotiate for enough cash to pay well for the seeding. Considering some jobs I have seen in the past, a construction co's idea of a smooth field is not the same as a farmer's.
 

Will they pull "eminent domain" and just take it?

It sounds like they have much to gain and you, much to loose. If you're gonna stay there a while, I wouldn't do it. Just my 2¢.
 
In Too Deep ...... you're at the right place ..... YTAAL ...... Yesterday's Tractors Attorneys at Law. That's what keeps this site one-of-a kind !!!!! I love some of this stuff ....
 

You won the negotiation when they agreed to move the route. Your additional "expectations" are out of line. Given the Supreme Court decision a few years ago regarding private use and eminent domain you are lucky they gave you as much as they have already. Oil could be construed to be a national security issue.
 
Well, let's see ...... hmmm, can't think of a better place to go. I'm still laughing, my wife thinks I've lost it a bit.
 
#1) you need a lawyer specializing in this area.
#2) most pipeline right of way is "acquired" by "eminent domain". Which means that they already know where the pipe line is going to be located and will tell you anything to get you to sign. They also don't need your permission or signature. Another reason why you need a good lawyer.
#3) There may be some protection of what they do to your land (local soil conservation society) but in the past, the topsoil went on the bottom around the pipe and the sub-soil and rocks whet on the top. And the property owner is stuck with the results of that forever.
#4) no trees of any kind ever allowed on the right-of-way.
#5) pipe line company has the permanent right to enter the right-of-way for any purpose with no notice.

Good luck.
 
Just to let you know what kind of people might be coming on to your property, my wife's sister was married to, divorced from, and re-engaged to a pipeliner. He and his buddies are at the bar as soon as they are done with work everyday. They think they are pretty special and have an attitude. Don't think you have to worry about them stealing because if they work all year, they make over 100K a year. But he drinks and gambles it all away and has nothing to show for it. Most are not family men, because they are gone for months at a time. He brags about how hard they work, but when he is laid off in winter, he has to hire somebody to clean snow off his little town driveway so he can get to the bar. That is all he does when he is laid off, is drink and gamble. And he is in his mid 40s. I can't speak for all of them, or every crew on pipelines, just the ones I know. Good luck.
 
Is this pipeline buried or above ground? I have 3 natural gas pipelines on my property buried 5 ft. deep. Grass seems to be just as good where the pipes are as anywhere else in the field, but the soil is clay. You need to establish a warranty period for the restoration work.
 
My buddy has 300 acres of hunting land 30 miles north of Bagley MN. Enbridge has a pipeline that runs through it. They have added two more lines in the last few years. They are a first class company, they left his land in better shape when they left than when they started. They added gravel to a dirt road they barely used, I have not heard one complaint from any of the locals.
 
In our country, tile is our biggest thing to worry about them tearing it and leaving. If they go through crop, they pay for that pretty good.
 
Deere, In regards to # 5, my brother can attest to just that. On his property, un-announced, parking trucks outside of the "right of way" IN his crops. My brother is kind of a tool anyway, had em scrambling in a hurry!
 
How deep are they going to bury the pipe? Will the pipe be "plowed in" or dug with trencher or excavator? If either dug or plowed, be sure they compact the cover to the same density as original material was before excavation and maintain all soil settlement areas after construction for at least 24 months. Make them put topsoil back on the top. This will probably require them to make two separate spoil piles while they are constructing. (One for topsoil and one for the rest of the overburden.) Make them bury the rocks they remove outside of the immediate trench area. I used to work with an engineering firm that did a lot of water pipeline design. Our state regulations required water lines to be buried 6 foot to the top of the pipe. We usually required a tracer wire to be installed with plastic pipe. These are some of the things we made the contractors do for the landowners. (My $0.02 worth. jal-SD)
 
I would never hire a lawyer. Two of my best friends did and the lawyer got 33 percent of the settlement and didn't do anything that they couldn't have done on their own. The lawyers kept dragging them on to get more money and almost ended up loosing what they were offered to start with. Another friend did his own negotiating and ended up getting 10 times the first offer. Use common sense and state you demands up front and don't take the first offer. The contracts around here are so much for the construction right of way and so much for the permanent right of way, plus whatever else you can get as far as new fences,roads,etc. When a gas line went through our tractor club property, I got the money to hire a contractor to build a new track, put up a metal building and still had money left over and the lawyers didn't get a dime.
 

They are buying an easement, not the land. The easement payment is for the loss of rights of that land, plus temporary losses and compaction. Every state will have different laws. They more rights they take from you, the more they pay. For instance if you cant plant, plow or graze the land, they pay much more. If you can plow, plant and graze the land, they pay less as you have lost less use of your land. Once you grant an easement, and lost some rights, if additional easements are granted, they are priced cheaper over the same land as your loss of rights are not increased as much as the first easement.

In our state, about the only thing you can fight is the route, and the price. If the route is not the best for the public good, you can fight it. If the price is not to your liking it goes to a board of appointed panel of three independent realtors who establish a fair price for both parties. Otherwise the forms are pretty much boiler plates with all the state's legalese. Crop damage, compaction, and others are pretty much standard now.

If its a good company, you will get a really good first offer that will not get much better, especially after lawyers fees.

In our area, the companies hire local easement specialist from the ocal area" who are known for being good, fair and honest and the easements are granted pretty fast.
 
Having dealt with several miles of pipeline on out farm several years ago, I would say all of your requests are valid and attainable without an attorney.

In our case, we were paid more than the value of the acreage for the easement, and actually received more than people who were dealing with DOT in the same township at the time- nevermind the pipeline was only an easement, and land sold to DOT was gone forever.

We received about two years of crop loss, 100% the first year, and then portions to cover the partial loss in years after (say 33% of a crop for 3 years), while the soil heals itself.

All fences, tile and irrigation lines should be restored as part of the deal. It was here.

Like you,we had asked for a re-alignment, and they did it.

You should also consider "triple ditching", where they are required by law to put each soil horizon back in the appropriate place (topsoil, subsoil, deep parent material) if you ask. Here in WI, they were required to do it if the landowner asked. In our situation, it was worth it, and there was a more complete "heal" of the land faster than on properties where they did not.

Most important rule ,be kind and courteous to their staff. There are used to people being combative with them, so kindness will get you a LONG way. In our case, we tried to be helpful, and were paid very handsomely to help them dispose of some loads of brush. We also got free quality fill trucked in. At the end, we also got a lot of leftover pipe for which we paid nothing... it has been great building material, road culverts, etc. All for being cooperative with the contractor!

Good luck. It can be scary, but we found it to be OK in the end.
 

TOTALY different, NOT a pipeline, but still an easement, a bigtime HV power transmission line was built across family property about 40 years ago.

My late Uncle had a trusted attorney look over the easement and got a clause or two added.

One had to do with a "sunset clause" as to how things would be handled if the line is ever removed or abandoned (won't affect me, but if the land stays in the family long enough, it may help an heir of mine).

Another made it clear that we were not liable if we accidentally damage a pole though the course of normal farming operations.

They readily agreed to the attorney's additions, probably because there was little chance of them costing the Co. anything vs. the potential cost of litigation and delays.

Dunno if any of that will "hold water" down the road, but it looks good on paper!

The power Co. has been really good about noting if any access/work is done that causes crop damage and pays embarrassingly well.

I would certainly suggest that you have an attorney familiar with the situation/local conditions review the easement before signing.

If there's anything that needs to be changed/can be changed in you favor it needs to be brought to light and dealt with BEFORE you sign any papers.
 
May want to check on what kind of up keep will be going on in the future along the right-of-say. So I?m saying contact your county or state, not sure what department it falls under. Many pipelines have scheduled inspections by aircraft. So the trees and brush must be controlled to allow proper inspection by this method, of course that is up to the pipeline owner/operator and on their dime. But they will likely be coming on the easement to perform this type of maintenance at some point. One of the jobs my brother in law had right after high school was to help a local company in NE KS mow ditches at roadways where pipelines crossed. I think these lines were natural gas. I do agree with the poster who suggested if legal council is requested he should be representing a group and not just one individual. Otherwise, he will be dipping heavily into the settlement purse.
 
(quoted from post at 20:44:42 04/04/18) That's a good point on the soil layers. The topsoil is poor enough already.
Click to expand...
in to deep I worked for a pipeline co. for over 10 years, one of the things your missing is the next year and maybe more, the ditch line they dig is going to settle over the winter. if you have frost and things freeze down good the next spring it will settle a foot or more, and instead of the field being nice and level you will have a swale depression over the line. we had to go back the next summer on most lines we installed and bring in topsoil to bring it back up to grade. it was done with the landowner at the co.'s expense.
 
I had a cell phone tower put up on my property 11 years ago, did all my own negotionating, and the contract, no lawyer, no regrets yet
 
[
What should I know about the process? Not really interested in hiring a lawyer, but I know it would be
wise.

=====================

You say "I've never done this before" and you state hiring a lawyer would be wise. Good gosh man, you have the answer right in front of you.
When I have a big legal problem, I always ask a bunch of amateurs for the answers.
If there was ever a time for you to to be wise, it is NOW.
LA in WI
 
tell them how much cover over the top of pipe, gates on each end so the can only come in down their easement, and make it state only the pipes and you get paid again if more in same ROW and make sure you state that the pipes can only be used for what they are putting them in for..when Enbridge came over my dads property they asked about if pipeline was no longer in use, could the run a fiber optic cable inside my answer was no nothing else...I worked for a Pipeline for 24 years and was the go to guy on Dads property
 
I read through the comments below, and have a couple things to add from our experience with the gas pipeline. At least in Michigan they cannot got to eminent domain until they have 85 percent of the PARTIES signed up. That is in my opinion one of the reasons they jiggy-jog the route, so they can easily sign Bill Jones's 30 ft. and John Doe's 40 ft., that way they get to 85 percent and can force the others that they go across three quarters of a mile or one and a half miles into court for eminent domain. I second the comment about subsidence, and will post a picture from the line on our place. Their comment was that they didn't REMOVE any soil, they WERE NOT going to bring any in. We also got a clause added that if the line is ever removed that if another line is not installed withing one year of the removal then the right of was reverts to the land owner and is no longer in effect. Also make sure you have the names and phone numbers of the project superintendent, as he and his minions nay not be on the same page when it comes to dealing with you and other land owners. You need a real attorney.
a264048.jpg
 
You nailed it. Only a fool would use legal advice from this bunch of ametuers.
 
The re-seeding, weed control and fencing in items 2, 3 and 5 would probably be subcontracted out and will never be done to your satisfaction. It might be better for everyone if you do those items yourself and have the pipeline co. compensate you.
 
I DON'T have a big legal problem. I just wanted to hear some opinions so I don't look like an idiot and
get railroaded during the beginning of the process. Kinda like talking to a doctor before you go under
the surgeon's blade. I WILL most likely be asking a lawyer to review the contract before I sign. Thank
you.
 
Missed this earlier.

In Minnesota things can get pretty odd.

Friends brothers had a city distruburion line that ran 80 miles got brought their farm, and farms they rented.

It was just a mess, the city contracted it themselves and just went the eminent domain route from the get go, and didn't even plan the route, just in general and had entire farms condemned and set up the route as they were digging through.

It was goofy.

Several farmers got together with the same lawyer, and the lawyer was just ignored; they would move court dates and the judge would just rubber stamp whatever the city wanted.

Hope you don't run into anything like that, I hear real pipeline companies are easier better to deal with than what happened around here.

Paul
 
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