Wonder if this is the same around all you guys. Small engine places are going out fast. Seems there is no money in it for the shop. For the customer he can buy an item about as cheap as have it repaired. Next starter (auto electric shops) are disappearing same thing just buy new. One guy told me he is fighting this "I can buy it online cheaper than you can rebuild it". Radiator and gas tank repair shops in my area are all but gone, same reasons. Funny thing some of them are busy enough but say they can't make a good profit. Many times someone retires and that is the end of it too far as the repair shop goes. Would like to hear you opinions.
- Thread starter JOCCO
- Start date
Cheap replacement is part of the problem but the cheap customers are also part of the problem. Man brings in his 100 dollar lawn mower for tune up. Leaves with it running fine but next week when the starter rope pulls out or the front wheel falls off he is right back at the shop saying "you caused it" Be back in small engines is a real problem. Shop did not make much for labor in first repair and having to spend another 30 minutes free is just a deal killer.
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
I closed my shop because I could not make any money. People are cheap. Bring you junk then complain about the cost of repairs. So they leave it with you.Most of the time you can buy new cheaper than fixing the old one. Monday I am taking a pickup load of equipment to the scrap yard. Tired of storing it.I am only working on Onan and Kohler units built before 2005. No profit in the new junk being made today.
Lot's of those businesses gone around here. A big one for doing engine work such as turning crankshafts and plaining heads went out several years back already. Declining demand and poor margins were cited as primary causes. People can say that I am out of touch or don't get it but things are changing too fast. Too much new technology too fast. Just because we can build self driving cars does not mean that we should do so. Just because the son or daughter got an advanced degree and a high six figure job does not mean that they are bettering humanity.
johnofnewhaven
Well-known Member
Guess I am lucky. We still have decent shops for all that in my area. I don't buy cheap small engine equipment and am fine with paying a bit on the high side for small engine equipment repair. Helps them stay in business so they are there the next time I need them. But yes many customers are cheap and complain about their junk when it is repaired and then a short time later something completely different goes wrong and then it's the shops fault. We are becoming a "use it and throw it away when it brakes" Society. Kind of sad.
2002sliverado
Member
We have a couple guys who do small engine work and sell a few lines of outdoor power equipment. I think the typical suburbanite thinks because they buy a product with a recognizable brand name, they really have something. I think of the items you can buy at Home Depot, such as the John Deere products available there. Little do they know, this is the "economy" model equipment made to compete with the MTD products sold there and at other discount retail stores. This stuff can be "thrown away" once the problems start. Most people don't want to buy something decent and well built, which can last for years with a little repair and upkeep. Case in point; I have a 20 year old Lawn and Garden tractor, which I have had for nearly 10 years. It has given me little to no problems, but it is also Deere's high end product from 1998, too. I bought a Stihl string trimmer from a fellow who sells and services them. It was not an inexpensive string trimmer, but it is well built and I have now had it for 8 years without any issue either. I didn't buy it at a discount retailer who also handles the Stihl product line. My dealer recommended this one because of its ease of starting and strong design. It should last a long time.
SodBuster87
Member
High cost of labor and cheap throw away products that cost more to repair then replace. Of course the manufactures figured this out a long time ago. If they build it to last, nobody will buy new ones...
Sod Buster
Sod Buster
Phil in Pa
Member
The few left around here seem to exist by servicing equipment they sell. But that only seems to work for ten or fifteen years max.
I just ordered maintenance today for my cub RZT50 online. Air filter, two plugs, oil filter for ten bucks and another ten shipping. Nobody can compete with that.
I just ordered maintenance today for my cub RZT50 online. Air filter, two plugs, oil filter for ten bucks and another ten shipping. Nobody can compete with that.
I don't know guys. I do small engine and small farm equipment maintenance in Ky and in the heart of horse country. I stay covered up with small engine work and do work at the horse farms. I am busy 12 months a year and feel I have very good return on my investment. Maybe I am just in the right location.
We quit doing any lawn mower repair several years ago. We only did JD and other high end mowers but still could not make any money doing it. To really completely service a mower might take you an 1 or 1 1/2 hours to do it correctly. So that would be $50-$75 at the most. We can make $75-100 in that same time working on heavier equipment or autos. Plus most people will scream about a several hundred dollar lawn tractor repair. So it there is much wrong the parts and labor are higher than they will pay.
Small engine repairs are even worse. The majority of the problems we had lately is all fuel related. So you clean the carb and drain the tank. The engine runs fine. Six weeks later it is back doing the same thing with more CHEAP gas in it. Many of them I can drain out the stale 10% ethanol gas and put in fresh premium and the motor runs fine without dong anything else. The customer reads fifty forums where guys say that they run the cheapest gas they can buy and have no troubles. So it our fault and the customer calls us "bad" mechanics.
Easy solution. Stop doing any out side mower/small engine repairs.
We have one alternator shop in a fifty mile radius. Two machine shops that do engine work. Two radiator shops. Here is the kicker every one of these shops is ran by a fellow that is sixty years old or older. There is not any younger family there that is going to take them over. I don't blame them. There is little money to be made in regular repairs anymore.
I know Rrlund son is running an engine machine shop he started but he is involved in the racing world. Those guys will still spend the money to have a motor done right.
Small engine repairs are even worse. The majority of the problems we had lately is all fuel related. So you clean the carb and drain the tank. The engine runs fine. Six weeks later it is back doing the same thing with more CHEAP gas in it. Many of them I can drain out the stale 10% ethanol gas and put in fresh premium and the motor runs fine without dong anything else. The customer reads fifty forums where guys say that they run the cheapest gas they can buy and have no troubles. So it our fault and the customer calls us "bad" mechanics.
Easy solution. Stop doing any out side mower/small engine repairs.
We have one alternator shop in a fifty mile radius. Two machine shops that do engine work. Two radiator shops. Here is the kicker every one of these shops is ran by a fellow that is sixty years old or older. There is not any younger family there that is going to take them over. I don't blame them. There is little money to be made in regular repairs anymore.
I know Rrlund son is running an engine machine shop he started but he is involved in the racing world. Those guys will still spend the money to have a motor done right.
Surprisingly in my area there are more small engine repair shops than there was 20 years ago. I would have figured it would decline, but on top of actual proper shops, there is a saturation of backyard guys doing it as well who leave a lot to be desired when it comes to their abilities.
Times change. Not always for the better. Don't pay to get heart burn over stuff you have no control over.
Couple of years ago I guy I know that has a used items store ask me about rebuilding lawn mower engines. He said he figured that I should be able to rebuild them for about 25 bucks. He said about 12.50 in parts and 12.50 labor. I told him just what he could do with his mowers. This is within the last 10 years. He wanted to buy non running mowers for 2-3 bucks, have em repaired for 25 and be able to turn a nice profit by selling em for 50.
Where most small engine shops are making thier money is by being an authorized "B&S, Kohler ECT" dealer. Then the money is in the parts markup. Good example was a carburator on a mower one of my kids had. Local shop told them 68 dollars for a new carb from Briggs. I bought the carb for 25 from an honest Briggs dealer. Actually the other guy wasn't being dishonest. At the time Briggs had a suggested retail price but the dealer could charge whateven they wanted to. But 68 bucks for a 3 year old mower that only cost 99 to start with new? Of course people are throwing em away.
Rick
Couple of years ago I guy I know that has a used items store ask me about rebuilding lawn mower engines. He said he figured that I should be able to rebuild them for about 25 bucks. He said about 12.50 in parts and 12.50 labor. I told him just what he could do with his mowers. This is within the last 10 years. He wanted to buy non running mowers for 2-3 bucks, have em repaired for 25 and be able to turn a nice profit by selling em for 50.
Where most small engine shops are making thier money is by being an authorized "B&S, Kohler ECT" dealer. Then the money is in the parts markup. Good example was a carburator on a mower one of my kids had. Local shop told them 68 dollars for a new carb from Briggs. I bought the carb for 25 from an honest Briggs dealer. Actually the other guy wasn't being dishonest. At the time Briggs had a suggested retail price but the dealer could charge whateven they wanted to. But 68 bucks for a 3 year old mower that only cost 99 to start with new? Of course people are throwing em away.
Rick
Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
No one wants to pay to have their junk fixed. Labour rates eat up value of cheap equipment in a couple hours. The more expensive equipment, the dealership that sells it will be glad to repair/service work, and the bill will reflect the value of the equipment. Weed eaters and most chainsaws are now throw away. Big bow store lawn tractors, likewise, even if they are green and say JD on the side, they aren?t the same quality as the ones the dealerships sell.
Stephen Newell
Well-known Member
Everything made today isn't worth repairing so it's no wonder the repair shops are going away.
Back in the mid-1970's a HS classmate graduated from community college in small engine repair. He worked in a small engine/lawn mower shop for one summer and found there was no money in it then either. Too many disposable engines that could be replaced with new for less than the cost to repair one. He moved on to work in a motorcycle/snowmobile shop and did very well there. Those customers had money and were willing to pay well to have their expensive toys fixed before the next weekend.
47fivewindow
Well-known Member
- Location
- Davidsonville Md.
In my area--Baltimore, Washington, Annapolis Metro.-- if a shop can't make close to 100.00 bucks an hour they will soon be closed. How long can they fool with a 6 year old weed eater and keep the rent payed? The places that are left own their shops and support what they sell. A few old guys working in their back yard for beer money.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Fifteen years ago there were two automotive electric rebuilders within a short drive of here. Both are long gone. The outdoor power equipment shops are going strong, but they have thriving new equipment and parts sales to help cover the overhead.
Butch(OH)
Well-known Member
Around here we just have dealers servicing what's under warranty or the top ends of their lines and a few part timers.
I dont hire much of that kind of work because I repair everything in my shop but I fully understand the costs and trials of running the service dept at my company. Good mechanics are a tough pull and its hard to keep one because everybody and their brother is in the same shape. So you hire anyone who knows which end of a wrench to put on a bolt and invest a lot of money teaching him how to fix your equipment and if he ends up being good then he gets 10 job offers per week and you either pay the big bucks or he goes down the road. Even the Operators union, with a pay and benefits package that puts a master mechanic close to $50 per hour has many openings. My youngest son is a master mechanic and works for an equipment dealer. Even though his "old" truck wasn't vary old they just gave him a new chromed up Freightliner in an effort to keep him from getting happy feet due to all the job offers he gets.
I dont hire much of that kind of work because I repair everything in my shop but I fully understand the costs and trials of running the service dept at my company. Good mechanics are a tough pull and its hard to keep one because everybody and their brother is in the same shape. So you hire anyone who knows which end of a wrench to put on a bolt and invest a lot of money teaching him how to fix your equipment and if he ends up being good then he gets 10 job offers per week and you either pay the big bucks or he goes down the road. Even the Operators union, with a pay and benefits package that puts a master mechanic close to $50 per hour has many openings. My youngest son is a master mechanic and works for an equipment dealer. Even though his "old" truck wasn't vary old they just gave him a new chromed up Freightliner in an effort to keep him from getting happy feet due to all the job offers he gets.
Crazy Horse
Well-known Member
All part of industrial "evolution" when you think about it. There are all kinds of fix-it repair shops that aren't in business anymore, several in addition to small engine repairs are mentioned below. Find somebody to sharpen a reel-type mower assembly nowadays. Sixty years ago, a lot of local hardware stores could do that for you. Wheelwrights started struggling years before that. Part of modern day life I guess.
Texasmark1
Well-known Member
We only had one around here that wasn't part of a dealer network. Gone bye bye.
Adirondack case guy
Well-known Member
We have several engine builders and repair shops in the area. There is one in particular that farm machinery dealers in the area, just take complete engines from tractors, etc., needing overhaul to them, and pick them up when complete. The rebuilder is responsible for the warranty. These rebuilders are also heavy into race and street car engines.
There are also some good welding/machine shops, that work on ag, industrial, and truck equipment.
Loren
There are also some good welding/machine shops, that work on ag, industrial, and truck equipment.
Loren
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Just look to this forum for evidence of people being cheap.
Tons of threads here asking, "Where can I find this cheaper?" or "Where can I get the cheapest price on such-and-such?"
All the moaning and crying over the prices charged by "Mother Deere" or any of the other major manufacturers... More evidence.
I just had an IH 66 series radiator recored. Cost me $700 from the local radiator shop. Could've gotten an offshore replacement for $450 from eBay. Half or more of you are calling me a fool right now for paying the radiator shop's "ridiculous" price.
Yes, money's tight but priorities are seriously out of whack too.
Tons of threads here asking, "Where can I find this cheaper?" or "Where can I get the cheapest price on such-and-such?"
All the moaning and crying over the prices charged by "Mother Deere" or any of the other major manufacturers... More evidence.
I just had an IH 66 series radiator recored. Cost me $700 from the local radiator shop. Could've gotten an offshore replacement for $450 from eBay. Half or more of you are calling me a fool right now for paying the radiator shop's "ridiculous" price.
Yes, money's tight but priorities are seriously out of whack too.
1948CaseVAI
Well-known Member
Bettering humanity is not the point. Bettering oneself and family is the point. We have never before enjoyed such a high standard of living and that will continue to improve as costs of manufacturing new things comes down. Humanity sux - always has, always will.
whereswaldo
Member
I was in High School in '64 when my Dad hit a root with 'my' walk behind 26" mower. Bent the crankshaft. New crankshaft was $35.00 (straightening was not recommended). The entire mower was less than $50.00. so.....(And it was ALL U.S. made, including the Briggs and Stratton engine)
Determined
Well-known Member
A customer walks in to a shop and needs a little $5 part.
Next you look it up and find or order it and do up a bill.
Now the guy wants you to tell him how to install it.
Followed by him talking your ear off about how great his kid is doing in hockey.
If less than half an hour has not been lost you are lucky.
Do this 5 times a day and see how much work you get done.
Next you look it up and find or order it and do up a bill.
Now the guy wants you to tell him how to install it.
Followed by him talking your ear off about how great his kid is doing in hockey.
If less than half an hour has not been lost you are lucky.
Do this 5 times a day and see how much work you get done.
495man
Well-known Member
This is the truth. Most people have no idea the idle chat costs a small business owner money. Need to know when they are busy and don't want to chat versus slow day and they don't care.
Same person will chat with cashier about the weather, so and so's funeral etc etc with a line of 5-10 people behind them waiting.
Determined
Well-known Member
Exactly but if you are the guy that remembers Tracy's birthday, Marcus is in little league, Kasandra is competing in Olympic Bobsleigh, Johnny lost 2 teeth and little Susie just started in gymnastics then people will keep coming back to your shop because they perceive you as someone who actually cares they are alive.
Might sound stupid to some but to anybody who has run a successful business you all know that attention to details makes a difference.
I have dealt with people that were multi millionaires and people that swept floors for a living and I treated them all the same.
Kissed nobody's hind side and never looked down on anybody in an entry level position.
Guess what 10 years later those guys that used to sweep floors were now running the companies and they remembered you.
Business thrived and all was good.
AzPeapicker
Member
Good afternoon Jocco
Back in 1975 I was stationed in Clovis, N.M , .Iwas working on the F111A Aircraft , wanted something a lot smaller to work on when I retired in 78 . I went into town and I got to learn the small engine repair by giving free labor. As long as stayed there the owner trained me on all makes 0f equipment.
I finally retired in 2006 , I still work on some things but people still complain when when I charge them mainly for just foe the parts. I like to tell them to go ahead & take it to shop. wait 2 weeks then pay the price of shop labor plus parts .
I JUST DON T UNDERSTAND PEOPLE WHO EXPECT FREE EVERYTHING .
John ( AZpeapicker )
Back in 1975 I was stationed in Clovis, N.M , .Iwas working on the F111A Aircraft , wanted something a lot smaller to work on when I retired in 78 . I went into town and I got to learn the small engine repair by giving free labor. As long as stayed there the owner trained me on all makes 0f equipment.
I finally retired in 2006 , I still work on some things but people still complain when when I charge them mainly for just foe the parts. I like to tell them to go ahead & take it to shop. wait 2 weeks then pay the price of shop labor plus parts .
I JUST DON T UNDERSTAND PEOPLE WHO EXPECT FREE EVERYTHING .
John ( AZpeapicker )
I took radio-tv repair in vo-tech. Got a job with a school system as their AV repair tech. I had 30 to 32 schools to support, maintaining audio,video,film equipment, tv and vcr. I did this for 20 years until the computer age took over and AV declined and disappeared. I then worked 13 years in classroom computer support, never liked it but made more money and was able to retire at 55. The very thing I went to school for had become obsolete. I always liked diagnosing and repairing at the component level.Integrated circuits made everything so cheap electronic stuff is all throw away now.
Texasmark1
Well-known Member
For some people, myself included, it just gnaws away at you that you paid x when you could have gotten something for y. Human nature I
guess. Sometimes I buy regardless of price, but when looking for something just to fill a void, the former applies.
guess. Sometimes I buy regardless of price, but when looking for something just to fill a void, the former applies.
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