OT Firearms Education

Didn't want to derail the post below (another school shooting), but I saw a video from NBC News recently that was to show the destructive force of an AR-15 Assault rifle...........It showed a person shooting a watermelon with a 12 gauge pump action shotgun. If the news media doesn't know a pump shotgun from an AR-15, they should quit spreading fear among the rest of the uneducated public.
Just my $.02 worth...................It is all bulls**t.

I'd prefer that you derail the post down below, that way your post will get lost in a short time and the topic will disappear quicker than having it brought up again and again by those who don't want to hijack (another term for the same thing) other posts. But really, some of us just want to fire up the boiler again .... just my two cents.

Tripped over a website off Facebook where CBS was showing the % of gun owners, state by state. Was surprising how low the percentages were, especially in the eastern states. Based on numbers I have seen nationwide, they were way low, but the fact remains, that there a large majority of our population that don't have, and don't have a understanding of firearms. This makes us suckers for such junk news.

So if there is no registered list supposedly. How do they come up with any sort numbers, for guns owned and geographical location of gun population?

(quoted from post at 05:22:33 03/21/18) So if there is no registered list supposedly. How do they come up with any sort numbers, for guns owned and geographical location of gun population?

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They don't. It is fake news.

(quoted from post at 09:22:33 03/21/18) So if there is no registered list supposedly. How do they come up with any sort numbers, for guns owned and geographical location of gun population?

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They make it up. Same with a lot of other "facts" that aren't close to the truth.

(quoted from post at 15:32:24 03/20/18) Didn't want to derail the post below (another school shooting), but I saw a video from NBC News recently that was to show the destructive force of an AR-15 Assault rifle...........It showed a person shooting a watermelon with a 12 gauge pump action shotgun. If the news media doesn't know a pump shotgun from an AR-15, they should quit spreading fear among the rest of the uneducated public.
Just my $.02 worth...................It is all bulls**t.

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Yeah, well, I heard Jesse Jackson say on the news that anyone can walk into a store and buy a rocket launcher. Gotta be true, right?

(quoted from post at 08:22:33 03/21/18) So if there is no registered list supposedly. How do they come up with any sort numbers, for guns owned and geographical location of gun population?

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They can't. It is just liberals spreading their poison. I wish they would all self-administer a dose.

Many states require handgun registration or permit to own.
Some states do the same for long guns.

Every legally sold firearm by or thru a FFL holder must be reported and approved by the Feds.

Those FFL form 4473 sales records are in a database.

Every state that requires any form of gun registration has a database.

Every state that issues conceal carry permits has a database.

The database with owner names etc. might be un-obtainable but sure as shootin they will sell sales data in a heart beat.

(quoted from post at 11:40:19 03/21/18) Many states require handgun registration or permit to own.
Some states do the same for long guns.

Every legally sold firearm by or thru a FFL holder must be reported and approved by the Feds.

Those FFL form 4473 sales records are in a database.

Every state that requires any form of gun registration has a database.

Every state that issues conceal carry permits has a database.

The database with owner names etc. might be un-obtainable but sure as shootin they will sell sales data in a heart beat.

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Which explains how SOME of the numbers are obtained. But that's nothing like an accurate count. My wife has never bought a gun in her life, but she owns several. I'm sure she's not alone. That accounts for a lot of people right there. How many of us have hand me down guns from Dad or Gramps that have never purchased another gun. There's a lot more people. At best, it's a wild guess as to who owns what and where.

And for the record, the 4473 data is supposed to be kept in house and not used to determine things like who owns what. Not that I trust that to be true, but that's the way it's supposed to be. Prior to the NCIC background laws, there were hundreds of thousands of guns sold. Those records remain with the dealer until he goes out of business/dies, etc. If ATF has started collecting them and digitizing them, then it's news to me. And I've never had a dealer mention gun type when going through the ATF background check.

(quoted from post at 07:40:19 03/21/18) Many states require handgun registration or permit to own.
Some states do the same for long guns.

Every legally sold firearm by or thru a FFL holder must be reported and approved by the Feds.

Those FFL form 4473 sales records are in a database.

Every state that requires any form of gun registration has a database.

Every state that issues conceal carry permits has a database.

The database with owner names etc. might be un-obtainable but sure as shootin they will sell sales data in a heart beat.

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Maybe. The way I understand it is that FFL dealers are required to keep records, and must present those records to the ATF only if asked to do so. Automatic submittal of records to any database is not required.

First off an AR15 is not an assault rifle never was never will be. There ha only been one rifle even made that had the name assault rifle and A Hitler did not like it so it saw limit use.

AR15 is a simple hunting rifle that after it was in production the Military liked it so had it made to mil spec as the M-16.

AR stands for the company that made the rifle as in Armor-lite

I'm sick of people branding guns as assault guns there is no such thing other then in stupid people minds like those in DC

Used to be that you purchased the firearm from the dealer, and they recorded information in a ledger that was to be made available to the BATF, say for an audit or when on site doing whatever it is that they do. I had always wondered if those ledgers or information therein was collected by the federal government. NYS Safe act made certain rifles illegal, and I wonder what would happen if they had this information and investigated ownership of certain rifles that were sold in those days. They could, conceivably connect the dots, but the trail would go cold on most that were then re-sold privately.

(quoted from post at 10:10:13 03/21/18) Used to be that you purchased the firearm from the dealer, and they recorded information in a ledger that was to be made available to the BATF, say for an audit or when on site doing whatever it is that they do. I had always wondered if those ledgers or information therein was collected by the federal government. NYS Safe act made certain rifles illegal, and I wonder what would happen if they had this information and investigated ownership of certain rifles that were sold in those days. They could, conceivably connect the dots, but the trail would go cold on most that were then re-sold privately.

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Depends on how far you go back. I own a couple of long guns that do not even have serial numbers. Evidently produced before 1968? Records were not kept back then, and I'll bet there are a whole lot of pre-68 firearms still out there. Still in use.

Maybe. The way I understand it is that FFL dealers are required to keep records, and must present those records to the ATF only if asked to do so. Automatic submittal of records to any database is not required.

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That is true for the actual purchase of firearm.

But not for the mere pre-purchase/post purchase background checks. When you do the background check, the gov can make an educated assumption that you own at least one gun.

Was about three to five years ago that the ATF got caught by GAO for copying purchase records into one electronic collection.

For now, when local law enforcement agencies seek a gun trace — something they do about 373,000 times each year, or more than 1,000 times a day – from the [u:625b94f82a]ATF's National Tracing Center [/u:625b94f82a]in West Virginia, federal agents send identifying details to the manufacturers, who determine the dealer to whom it shipped the weapon. The investigators then contact the dealer, and continue on down the chain of possession until they find the last legally recorded owner of the gun.
Takes a week or two supposedly because all info is on paper.
But there is a real push by anti weapons types to make the paper files computerized and searchable electronically.

(quoted from post at 15:35:36 03/21/18)

(quoted from post at 10:10:13 03/21/18) Used to be that you purchased the firearm from the dealer, and they recorded information in a ledger that was to be made available to the BATF, say for an audit or when on site doing whatever it is that they do. I had always wondered if those ledgers or information therein was collected by the federal government. NYS Safe act made certain rifles illegal, and I wonder what would happen if they had this information and investigated ownership of certain rifles that were sold in those days. They could, conceivably connect the dots, but the trail would go cold on most that were then re-sold privately.

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Depends on how far you go back. I own a couple of long guns that do not even have serial numbers. Evidently produced before
1968? Records were not kept back then, and I'll bet there are awhole lot of pre-68 firearms still out there. Still in use.

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There are a lot of guns made long before 1968 that have serial numbers