- Thread starter _Mark_
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DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
The auction company pays the owner for it and/or runs thru the next auction.
If that happens there is likely a reserve that hasn't been met, I have had auctioneers do that on items that I have consigned on auction, they do their job so very well the bidder never knows its happening, which in theory is biding against no one until the reserve is possibly met. If you are a crooked auctioneer you can get a bidder to bid against them selves if they can't remember where their at, I have also witnessed that being done. I have also seen where a bidder will attempt to bid against them selves and the auctioneer will remind the bidder that they already have the bid, those are the honest auctioneers .
Keith Molden
Well-known Member
First off, in the state of Ohio the law clearly states that the Auctioneer shall not receive by, for or, on behalf of the owner. So if he is running the bid because the owner said it has to bring so much, then he is doing it illegally. I know it is done but it won't be done at my auctions. If the owner wants a certain price for an item then he has every right to hold a reserve on that item, I'll tell the crowd that there is a reserve and I'll let them know when it gets to that reserve and when it does I usually say something like it's going home with a new owner the reserve is off. I won't go to an auction where the auctioneer runs the bid because that in it's self tells me he is crooked and doesn't care about his bidders. Others may have a different opinion but that is mine as a licensed Auctioneer in the state of Ohio. Keith
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Might be like a consignment auction I was at a few years ago.I was waiting for them to sell a baler when there was a Ford pickup they couldn't get started but said the owner drove it in and they were hung on $100,so I bid it up to $200 the bid went to $225 decided I didn't want to come back about 75 miles to pick it up as I had a load, so I walked back over to the baler.When I went to pay the
pickup was on my tab I told the clerk I didn't get it, the auctioneer who I know pretty well laughed and said 'I had to put it somewhere' said I didn't have to take it.I told him
no problem I'd go ahead and take it.Turned out to be a pretty good ole 89 3/4 ton Ford auto PS still have it but need to do some brake work on it.
pickup was on my tab I told the clerk I didn't get it, the auctioneer who I know pretty well laughed and said 'I had to put it somewhere' said I didn't have to take it.I told him
no problem I'd go ahead and take it.Turned out to be a pretty good ole 89 3/4 ton Ford auto PS still have it but need to do some brake work on it.
Another twist on the bidding is when the consigner raises the bid hoping that the current bidder will bid again. When that does not happen the auctioneer will say sold to the consigner who then says that he did not bid and then the auctioneer will strike the item on the last bidder.
If the auctioneer is caught with an item when no one raises the ghost bidder then the owner, consigner still has the item, not the auction company. The seller also faces a bid in fee or commission on that item. Most states have rules about auctions but unless the item or auction is billed as "absolute sale" the owner can protect himself against unreasonably low bids.
If the auctioneer is caught with an item when no one raises the ghost bidder then the owner, consigner still has the item, not the auction company. The seller also faces a bid in fee or commission on that item. Most states have rules about auctions but unless the item or auction is billed as "absolute sale" the owner can protect himself against unreasonably low bids.
I've seen them try to back out - saying it was a mistake and get the prior bidder to go ahead and take it.
I've also gone ahead and bid - knowing the auctioneer was doing that - just because I needed/wanted the item. I don't like it, but there is nothing saying any auction buyer is guaranteed that everything will be available for pennies on the dollar, either.
At the big Bridgeport sale several years ago - Kruse auctions clearly called "sold!" on a big antique tractor sign at $3000 or so - as a guy was running in from the back shaking his head and waving... When the auctioneer saw him - after yelling sold - he then opened it back up and started taking bids again - and ran it up to twice the original "sold" price. The fellow that lost out was almost purple - he was so mad, but that's probably just an example of why Kruse went down the drain.
I've seen one auctioneer who collects up junk for his consignment sale - and then buyers are competing with him for most of what is auctioned off. Needless to say - he's not thought of very well - and his sales are very poorly attended.
HH
The only way is to provide a written reserve and anounced at start at item, If not done that way the auctioneer may no longer be an auctioneer. And taking bids from owner can get the auctioneere in BIG trouble with state licening board. What so many of you say is done would get the auctioner licence revoked.
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
Same for Florida
Not legal in Ohio. Friend had trouble several years ago. consignment. Guy on grounds complained owner was running it up. after state investigation determined the owner was at the time sale was the owner was several states away. Took a lot of time and agrivation on friend auctioneer to get the mess cleaned up.
I "almost" bought a tractor at an auction a few years ago.
Auctioneer went through the all ins, all dones and the gavel was
coming down for the third time when some guy upped it by $5.
Yes, $5. The auctioneer took his bid.
I didn't need it and I didn't like the fact that everyone else had
to bid in $50 increments, so I let it go. The bidder hadn't even
registered and had no bidder's number to give to the clerk.
Auctioneer still sold it to him after he announced that to everyone.
I didn't bother to bid on any of the other tractors at that sale and
I haven't been to another sale handled by that auctioneer.
Hope it was worth his $5.
Auctioneer went through the all ins, all dones and the gavel was
coming down for the third time when some guy upped it by $5.
Yes, $5. The auctioneer took his bid.
I didn't need it and I didn't like the fact that everyone else had
to bid in $50 increments, so I let it go. The bidder hadn't even
registered and had no bidder's number to give to the clerk.
Auctioneer still sold it to him after he announced that to everyone.
I didn't bother to bid on any of the other tractors at that sale and
I haven't been to another sale handled by that auctioneer.
Hope it was worth his $5.
showcrop
Well-known Member
This is just another one of those "idiot businessman" topics. Most of us know better than to believe this sort of thing, but there are just enough radical cynics in this world to keep this sort of fantasy going. The basic point is that as in any business, the auctioneer knows that getting caught doing something dishonest is not going to help his business. We all know just as well as he does that it will be very bad for his business. I am not saying that schill bidding never takes place, but if the auctioneer hopes to put on another one, he is not an idiot, he will be vigilant to keep it from happening.
rockyridgefarm
Well-known Member
Showcrop, I don't know why you'd say that. I'm no radical cynic, and I've seen everything described in these posts. I enjoy going to an auction, and was at two this week. I also enjoy online auctions. As far as i'm concerned, I have a strong sense of what something is worth, what I am willing to pay, and bid accordingly. Shill bidding used to bother me a lot, but now I just bid as much as I am willing to bid and stop. If they get me there honestly or by shill bidding me, so be it. But they're not gonna get me to puff up and bid the moon just cause someone else has the bid, shill or otherwise. Secret is to know your limit and STOP.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
rockyridgefarm, my sentiments exactly.
Neither the auctioneer, nor I, are responsible for a fool and foolish behavior. If they bid beyond what they're willing to pay, or what the item is worth, that's on them. I'm responsible for my money and my behavior alone, and I expect everyone else to be the same. It is not our business or responsibility to protect everyone from themselves.
Neither the auctioneer, nor I, are responsible for a fool and foolish behavior. If they bid beyond what they're willing to pay, or what the item is worth, that's on them. I'm responsible for my money and my behavior alone, and I expect everyone else to be the same. It is not our business or responsibility to protect everyone from themselves.
It is not against any rules for a helper to bid and by items for themselves. And they usually do watch croud for bids and if they see a bid the auctioneer misses they will say yes to auctioneer and auctioneer may never see the bidder. The bidder may be out of auctioneers line of sight. You may think the helper is bidding for himself but actually only passing a bid on. And you may never see tha actuall bider bid as you do not know what just a wink of the eye or movement of a finger is a bid unless you know the bidder.
Did he say that he would accept no bid for the $50 increments? I dought that. And all the others bidders could have placed a $5.00 bid and he would have taken it. I have several times left an absentee bid on something and if I would figure $50 for item would make the absentee bid for $51 or next higher bid if other bidder had by last figure and have never had a problim with that so if the other bidder was at $51 then the Auctioneer would put in a bid of $52 for me. Have gotten things like that but also lost out on things as well. I know some of you are complainimg about things that are perfectly legal and then some are saying the auctioneer is doing things regulary that could put him in jail and those things I cannot believe he would do to risk his lively hood.
I don't like auctions and I remember one once where the whole crowd got mad, turned their backs and left. There was a pretty nice JD hoe that I thought I was interested in, but I figured I'd lose even if I was the lone bidder, so I went to the truck too. They were folding things up as I drove away.
I was recently tempted to online bid on a Logan metal lathe, but the description was written either purposefully vague, or by someone who didn't know what he was looking at. There was lots of tooling in the pictures, but did the tooling go in a package with the lathe, or was it dribbled away in some other scheme? The tooling wasn't mentioned, but it was worth as much as the lathe, so it would be pretty easy to give twice what something was worth and receive half of what you thought you were buying. Then there was a scheme involving your credit card number, so if you submitted a bid it looked like you were stuck no matter what. They had an inspection time, but it was a 40 mile drive, and would they change their statement on the day of the sale? What if you won the bid and showed up to pick it up and part of the tooling was gone?
I was recently tempted to online bid on a Logan metal lathe, but the description was written either purposefully vague, or by someone who didn't know what he was looking at. There was lots of tooling in the pictures, but did the tooling go in a package with the lathe, or was it dribbled away in some other scheme? The tooling wasn't mentioned, but it was worth as much as the lathe, so it would be pretty easy to give twice what something was worth and receive half of what you thought you were buying. Then there was a scheme involving your credit card number, so if you submitted a bid it looked like you were stuck no matter what. They had an inspection time, but it was a 40 mile drive, and would they change their statement on the day of the sale? What if you won the bid and showed up to pick it up and part of the tooling was gone?
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
Best way is to know what you are bidding on, and know how much you are willing to pay. When the item reaches your limit, stop bidding.
Keep in mind that the auctioneer is working for the folks who own the items being sold, and it IS his job to get as much money as possible for the person who hired him.
fixerupper
Well-known Member
A few years ago I had a semi consigned at an auction and I put a minimum on it when I consigned it. When the bidding came to my truck my son, his wife and I were sitting on a trailer 20 feet or so away from the truck. While the bidding was going on the auctioneer's assistant was watching us like a hawk. He must have known I was the owner. The truck did not sell. I have not heard anything bad about this consignment auction company so they must play fair. I don't go to auctions much.
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
There is a monthly equipment auction in Ocala, FL that I attend virtually every month.
They claim [u:151030562a]everything sells with no reserve.
[/u:151030562a]
Yet the same items will be in the sale five months in a row or more.
When I am interested in something I tend to stand behind auctioneer and bid via talk or tap on shoulder.
Many times the owner is very close by and when the bid is not high enough they tell the auctioneer "no sale".
Since I am right there too, I see it and/or hear it also.
And it will be there again next month.
I know damn well the seller is not charged a seller/buyer premium for the highest bid.
The auctioneer does not charge that seller because they are friends or bring stuff to sell regularly.
There is virtually no enforcement of the rules.
Maybe if another auctioneer was to report them, yes but that would be like a doctor or lawyer squealing on another doctor or lawyer.
They claim [u:151030562a]everything sells with no reserve.
[/u:151030562a]
Yet the same items will be in the sale five months in a row or more.
When I am interested in something I tend to stand behind auctioneer and bid via talk or tap on shoulder.
Many times the owner is very close by and when the bid is not high enough they tell the auctioneer "no sale".
Since I am right there too, I see it and/or hear it also.
And it will be there again next month.
I know damn well the seller is not charged a seller/buyer premium for the highest bid.
The auctioneer does not charge that seller because they are friends or bring stuff to sell regularly.
There is virtually no enforcement of the rules.
Maybe if another auctioneer was to report them, yes but that would be like a doctor or lawyer squealing on another doctor or lawyer.
Auctions are all about games.
Most of my farm equipment comes from auctions.
It's not like there are any rules, and if there are they are not enforced.
The auctioneer wants to get the most money for the auction. Whatever that takes. That is the only real rule.
Play the game, know what you are bidding on, and you can do all right at auctions.
Paul
Most of my farm equipment comes from auctions.
It's not like there are any rules, and if there are they are not enforced.
The auctioneer wants to get the most money for the auction. Whatever that takes. That is the only real rule.
Play the game, know what you are bidding on, and you can do all right at auctions.
Paul
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