Super M? M?

I don't know much about red tractors and have always wondered about the difference between the Farmall M and the Super M. When did the M come out? When did IH go to the Super M and for how long? Horsepower differences? Both have live power?

I cannot tell you much but the M did not have a live PTO or at least the one I have doesn't. As for the years made you could go to the left of this page and look under research and info then serial numbers and find that out on your own

Super M 1952-1954. The SM had a 264 cubic inch engine and M had 248. The Super M had a larger clutch and live hydraulics.

The M never had live PTO or hydraulics as offered from the factory. The M came with a 248 CI displacement engine while the Super M had a 264. Early Super M's had the belly pump for hydraulics but could be readily adapted to live hydraulics using IH components and live PTO came with the Super MTA. I've had a very recent itch develop for a Super MTA as it is something I could imagine my grandpa buying to complement the Farmall M and Oliver 88 he already had at that time. I want a Super MTA and don't really care if the hobby is in decline as some have recently suggested.

The Super M had disc brakes, the M had band brakes.

First M's were either 1939 or 1940 - not sure which year as the letter series tractors started into the market in 1939. Super M's were an upgrade with the things the other responding here have mentioned. You may also hear about stages with the Super M's. They started with a bigger motor and disc brakes, then live hydraulics, then a torque amplifier and finally evolved into the model 400.

M from '39 thru '51.....Super M from '52 thru '54

When the M came out in 1939 it did have a hy system and remained the same till the Supers came out

jaden, the very late farmall m had disc brakes, along with the service meter (think hour meter) and the updated engine front cover to accept the engine driven hydraulic pump. my 52 m is equipped as such.

(reply to post at 16:39:16 02/16/18)

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Hey N.Y. 986
I have a smta diesel I’m selling if you are interested
Dugger

Yes, of course. My intention was to state live hydraulics as well as live PTO and thought I had stated as much.

M tractors were built from 1939 into early 1952. SM tractors assembled at Farmall works were built from early 52 until early 54. Louisville SM tractors were assembled at Louisville KY. from in May 1952 to into July 53. If you take the last M tractor and the first built SM tractor and sit beside each other missing the emblem and lettering, and not close enough to see numbers you couldn't tell them apart. Late M tractors got some SM upgrades before the supers. Most stuff already posted about M tractors applies though, like band used on 99% of M verses disc brakes. Around 7 horsepower more on SM for gasoline engine tractors when first built. In March of 53 the chassis was changed on both models of SM for accepting a engine driven hydraulic pump. Countershaft driven hydraulic pump like used on a M and SM was still available for SM tractors built after the chassis change if the engine driven pump was dropped. Most noticed chassis change was battery box moved to under seat, for non diesel models a clutch housing for 3 bolt starter mounting instead of two. Other changes like controls and gear shifter to chassis also. Transmissions on SM had faster 2nd through 4th speed gears. Both M and SM had a lower speed first gear option. M only had a faster 4th gear option. Bigger bearings were used in certain places on real late M and SM in transmission housing and for engine crankshaft. Crankshaft diameters were actually bigger and bearings less thick. SM engine block can use 1/8 bigger cylinder bore than a M block. SM and real late M used a 12 inch clutch and flywheel with pilot bearing that didn't require grease at lube time. No live or IPTO on a M or regular SM. Think the SM was the first Farmall that could be equipped with 13X38 tires when assembled. Other sizes were installed. Other than a bigger engine bore slight changes in cylinder head, manifold, carburetor and aluminum pistons used on most SM tractors resulted in more power. Manifold and head were also added to real late M. Early in production SM got thicker drawbars. Late M and SM got a lower bolster with less caster and thicker flanges on the loop type front cast wheels. Several other changes but getting to long with this.

SM did not have live PTO until the SMTA.

For what it costs I will have to start off with a project tractor. In particular for what the diesel tends to require for repairs it will have to be a gas. For now it will have to remain a desire until I have the cash to buy one. Thanks for the offer anyways.

as mentioned below the M came out in 39 the original hp was about 40. in 42 the pto was sized to the a.s.a.e standard of 1 3/8 inches and the oil filter housing was changed from the big one to the smaller size. in 48 the shock on the seat was moved from behind the spring to the front of the spring and there was a change to the steering shaft about this time they were rerated to 45 hp . the super Ms were rated at 52 hp and could be ordered with live hydraulics. only the super M TAs came with live hydraulics and live pto. and were only made in the last year of production.

I have a real straight SM project (stuck) I'd like to sell, and a nice SMTA I got from the original owners that I would consider selling- it baled hay just before I got it, working clothes

I probably can't do anything currently but I'll ask how much and where is it on the stuck Super M.

Local CL ad had someone list an SMTA and called it rare because it did not have a TA. I figured this was not actually true, but likely someone put SMTA stickers on a SM after painting. Could it actually be a SMTA without a TA? Kinda leans toward the "which bathroom to use" arguments in a tractor way.

(quoted from post at 14:39:16 02/16/18) The M never had live PTO or hydraulics as offered from the factory. The M came with a 248 CI displacement engine while the Super M had a 264. Early Super M's had the belly pump for hydraulics but could be readily adapted to live hydraulics using IH components and live PTO came with the Super MTA. I've had a very recent itch develop for a Super MTA as it is something I could imagine my grandpa buying to complement the Farmall M and Oliver 88 he already had at that time. I want a Super MTA and don't really care if the hobby is in decline as some have recently suggested.

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What in the heck does the hobby have to do with your wants? I know a few people who own older tractors, not because of the hobby but because they want one.

Rick

Could be 'legit',as there were a few SMTA tractors without TA or LPTO.So it would be a fairly 'rare' tractor.Or it could be as you described,wrong decals and the owner not having a clue.BTW,I have a 400 Farmall that is like that. NO LPTO and no TA.Just an M in 400 'clothes'.LOL They are out there

I'd like $950 for it. If you're in NY, where I'm originally from, not too practical, it's in Napa. My gramps had an IH dealership in Cohocton

YEp, could be. The torque tube is longer on the SMTA, and yes there were some without TA, like Delta said.

Mr Slater covered it better.

I've been through Cohocton quite a times. It's really a nice area even if a little isolated. Not too far from Dansville though.

Anecdote from an AC guy....I remember when the Super M came out. We"re parked in front of the IH dealership on sunday morning, after Mass. Dad goes across the street to get the MPLS Tribune at the drug store. I was about 8yo, noticed the "Super" decal, and said Farmall just poured a can of Campbell"s soup down the muffler and called it a Super M.

Awwww, you covered most everything, but you forgot about the lights, the front lights were little sealed beams on the Super M's and MTA's The Super M's and MTA,s got a roller on their swinging drawbar. Stage II Super M,s and MTA's had a single bend shift lever like the earlier M's with the curved tube seat frame. Stage I Super M's had a two bend shift lever like later M's with the Monroe type seats had. The seat frame was different again on the Stage II Super M's and Super MTA's with the battery box being the seat frame base so they apparently went back to the one bend shift lever.....Yeah, I think so........Oh God, now I'm confused...lol......

Whatever, I'll tell you, I loved my old Super M tractor and wish I still had it.....can't say the same for either of my ex-wives.....loved 'em sure,...once upon a time a lot,.....but negatory on wanting either of them back.........