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pulling planter

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flying belgian

Well-known Member
Neighbor has his 4440 up at the vo-tech school for rear end rebuild. It will not be done in time for spring field work. He will have to use 4430 and keep unhooking back and forth from digger to planter. He also has a 400 IH. tractor. planter is a 7000 6-row, no fert. attach. just plane jane planter. I told him pull the planter with 400. He said it won't lift it. I said hook it up and try it. He's not even going to bother as he's sure it won't. Question for you guys. Really? won't a 400 Farmall lift a 6 row planter?
 
Depends on if his hydraulics are worth a darn I guess. I don't know farmalls but my old Olivers won't lift much. I can't even lift the wings of a four basket Tedder with my 880 unless the wings are up over center. Fully rebuilt pump and I still have to drive the ends up on a bank be fore I lift it. I don't know the pressures of a farmall but it depends on cylinder size. I believe larger cylinders allow a lower pressure system to lift more. Smaller cylinders require more pressure. Maybe some hydraulic gurus can be more help.
 
If the pump is tired it may very well not. If it is also a drawn planter with the one center cylinder it most likely need a wider cylinder than a 3 inch to compensate for the lower system pressure the older tractors have. Your friend may have other fears such as the general condition of the tractor. How good is the radiator, engine oil pressure, blowby, loud transmission to name a few possibilities.
 
If the hydraulic pump is healthy it will lift the planter OK but the markers will be a struggle. I had a 7000 six row. The A Deere would lift the planter and raise the markers with a struggle. The Oliver 88 with a tired pump would lift the planter until the oil was good and warm, then it couldn’t raise it all the way.
 
Don't know ABOUT A 400,BUT MY sUPERm WITH 'mag' pump and a spool valve has more hydraulic 'poop'than my 706.
 
Live pump on a 400 should make 1200 psi, maybe a bit more. 4440 probably made over 2000. If the 4440 used a 3 inch cylinder the 400 with a 4 inch cylinder will actually lift more, over 15,000# vs 14,000# for the 4440.
A friend pulls his 6-30 planter with his 656, a 400 isn't that much smaller. I would try it, guy on another forum had problems with his 4320 last spring, finished planting with his 6-30 planter with his 3010-D. My Uncle bought a brand new 3010-D back in '61 or '62, sent it back to the dealer three times because his tired old 400 gas worked rings around it.

Good tires, maybe duals would help.
 
I pulled a 4 row 800 ih with dry fertilizer with my dc case for many years. That should be heavier and pull harder than a 7000 without fert.
 
Put a 4" cylinder on the planter and the ol 400 will pull it and raise it just fine. Years ago I had to pull my 8 row 400 planter with a my 400 when I had to wait for a tire repair on my 856. It planted my last 40 of beans and i beat the rain.
 
All JD tractor 10 20 30 40 50 55 60 Hyd psi is 2250 as to lift on IH early riser planters they much lighter than the 7000 in the same row set up
 
If the hydraulic pressure on the 400 is less than 2000 PSI he may need a larger diameter cylinder to lift it. If it is short on hydraulic fluid, use a double acting cylinder.
 
I have a IH 450 and at one time we had a 7000 8 row wide planter, I tried it on the 450 just to see if it could do it, it was a little slow on the lift, and it was a good pull, but it did work, we planted a lot of acres with a 4 row wide and the 450, I'd think 6 rows would be no problem. Mike
 
The big thing here is IF the system is working as new at best your only going to get 1250 and not much more out of the 400 Hyd system , and if you think you can barnyard it into getting more then you put the cam gear at risk of breaking twisting the key off the dist drive . Yes you can go with a 4 inch cylinder and use it double acting for more hyd oil capacity but it will be slow on the rise . If that 7000 Deere planter is a No Till they are still heavy with out fert. My 806 is slow on lifting the John Deere 7000 no Till four row with dry fert. but my pump is getting tired and it still has the stock pressure relief in it , once the oil warms up flow drops off and it's not making the pressure . When my buddy bought this 7000 he wanted to use it on the Old 720 J D that his boy bought and it would not lift it to even get it out of the shed at the farm where he bought it at. even when we tried the 4 inch trick .
 
I think I should clarify a couple things. Neighbor is extremely over weight and struggles doing basic chores such as climbing on and off tractor. Also a bit mentally challenged. I just thought I could make his life a bit easier by suggesting something he may not have thought of. It does not pay for him to change cylinders as after this spring he will have the 40 back and life can go on for him as it has for the last 20 yrs. Because of his challenges he does not want to go to the work of moving several pieces of equip, in the shed in order to try the 400. Neither he nor I have some extra long hoses to thread through the imposing equip. to try it. If I new that the 400 would lift that planter I would take a half day and go over there and move equip., hook it up and prove it to him. But if there is any question, I am not going to the trouble. So far the results from your response below is mixed so I think I will just drop it and let him do as he pleases.
 
I think you had a very good idea for a temporary planting configuration.
Is the IH400 overall in good condition, good tires, etc?
I'd think it would pull a 6 row.

As far as lift force, can you get to the IH400 in the shed without moving everything and measure its hydraulic pressure?
If normally 1250 psi, a 2500psi gage would probably be adequate, like the one on amazon - surprisingly cheap price.
Note, the planter probably isn't requiring anywhere near all the John Deere's hydraulic pressure.

Force = Pressure X Area

JD 2000psi on 3" cylinder = 2000 x 0.785 x 3x3= 14,130LBS
IH 400 @ 1200psi on 4" cylinder = 1200 x 0.785 x 4 x 4 = 15,072LBS

Sorry, I have no idea on the markers - measure them and see.

Best Wishes
Untitled URL Link
 
That probably makes a big difference if he is over weight and has lost some muscle control. In the cab he could flop about some and not get seriously injured. On an older tractor that even had the small clam shell fenders there is a good chance he may fall off causing great harm to himself. The 4430 would be the way to go.
 
Can certainly try, but my 300 would not come remotely close to lifting my 4 or 6 row 7000. Neither did my Oliver Super 77 which was disappointing, I had hoped to use it with the 4 row. I tried without fertilizer so it was as light as I could make it, and I even bought a size bigger hyd cylinder to give it more oomph.

There were 2 different frames with the 6 row, one common one used a single cylinder in the center with a rock shaft.

The less common style was a notill or some such designation, and it had a cylinder on each wheel. Perhaps this style would life easier I donno.

My big tractor is in the shop,too, I expect it back by spring but would be in a world of trouble if not.....

Paul
 
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