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Options for pumping diesel?

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Dave H (MI)

Well-known Member
I have been told that priority one project this Spring is to set up my ground level fuel storage tank. Randy is not happy delivering fuel directly to the equipment. Those of you in my area who buy fuel or tires will likely know Randy. He wants me to buy larger quantities, has explained it all to me patiently, and I understand completely.

I have a tank and a Gasboy electric pump that mounts on it. No electricity out to the shed at this time. Maybe in a year or two. Should I go to a battery operated pump for a year or so or run the genny to the current pump? Any reasons not to use a generator to power a fuel tank pump? I can't think of any but thought I would ask.
 
Others will know lots more Im sure, but would solar be an option? Yes I know you are in Michigan....
 
I don't know the power requirements of the existing pump you have or how much fuel you are pumping at 1 time, but you may want to look at an inverter to run the pump. simply plug the pump in and hook inverter cables to battery with clamps. I suggest this for diesel only due to flammable fumes emitted by gasoline being very explosive, also keep a fire extinguisher available which should be around when fueling any way
 
I've got a 1000 gallon diesel storage tank and I use a 12v pump on that one. I have clips on the wires and just clip them to the solenoid on the starter and to a starter bolt on each tractor. Nothing to it. 13 gpm. Doesn't take any longer than the 110v pump did.
 
I'm with ss55, buy or build a stand assuming your tank is appropriate for a stand. Sell the pump to help pay for the stand.

If you fill a combine, make sure the stand is high enough.

More importantly, make sure the tank is clean and you install a filter on the fill hose/valve assembly.

Just my two cents.

Paul
 
how many solar cells then converter to dc then batts to store then inverter to make DC to AC for the pump not a very good idea $$$$$$
 
Go with either a DC pump or an inverter. Power from many of the generators is dirty, lots of spikes that are hard on equipment. Lots of the prepper folks use a generator to power a battery charger, then power an inverter from the batteries to run their fridge or freezer. That should tell you enough about generator power.
I have several DC systems. I installed a lockable box with a breaker to keep theft problems to a minimum.
My two cents.
 
Hand pump? Its not that hard or slow. I've been pumping all the diesel used on my farm since about 1980. Haven't worn the pump (or my arms) out yet. Of course I'm not a big farmer but have been known to pump 50 to 100 gallons a day by hand at harvest time.
Similar to this one.
Fuel Transfer Pump
 
A generator will work fine or possibly an inverter, need to check size vs need at pump. The whole dirty electricity stuff from a generator is in my opinion very overblown except for the most sensitive equipment surely not a fuel pump. Sometimes at a farm auction you can find a cheap dc fuel pump and tank on wheels that would be another option till you get electricity.

Joe
 
I got rid of my overhead tanks years ago and now have tanks on the ground with 120V pumps. I would not go back to overhead tanks. Just my 2 cents.
 
They're painfully slow. I still store gasoline in one,but if I used more of it,I'd take the legs off and put a pump on it.
 

I have a 20 gpm Fill-Rite 12v pump on my 75 gallon slip tank in the truck, and a 15 gpm Fill-Rite on a 200 gallon tank that I use for off-road diesel. I also have 3 55 gal barrels on a skid for off-road. I load these with the skidsteer into the truck to fill them up a couple of times a year. I can't tell any difference between the two pumps.
 
https://au.macnaught.com/fluid-handling/macnaught/fuel-equipment/fuel-pumps/rapid-flo-rotary-fuel-pump-drawing-revision-1

Up to 100 l/minute
 
On one tank I have a 12volt pump that I power with my dewalt 18 volt batteries. At another farm I use a 110 volt that is supplied free where I get from the fuel supplier. Another farm has a couple gravity feds.

The 110 v is much faster for filling larger tractors. I used to have an old gas boy that worked by pushing and pulling the handle. It would move a lot of fuel fast, but it got to leaking very bad and could not find a rebuild kit.
 
Here I thought with all the railing about gas tractors and the efficiency of Diesel, you would only have to refuel with a 5 gallon can every other day or so.. Why would you need a pump ;>)


I have a hand pump on my gas and Diesel tanks. Works well.
 
Dave I will second Randy on this. Just get a 12 volt pump and power it with what ever your filling. I have tanks at some more remote farms and I power them this way. No 110 electric to worry about. One tank is in the edge of the trees on a 500 acre farm we rent that does not have any buildings.

For the guys talking about gravity tanks stands. Try filling any modern combine with a gravity tank???? The combine tank fill is higher than the fuel tank. LOL Dave has an CIH 1660 IRC. The tank is up by the motor.

Also I bet I wasted more fuel with gravity tanks. How many times do you lock the nozzle open while your greasing or something and run the tank over?????
 

I would go with the DC pump powered from the tractor. I doubt that in this day and age Randy would agree to fill an overhead tank. I am sure that many are still being filled, but I bet that the companies will refuse to take on any new ones. Workers comp pretty much trumps everything else.
 
I'll third what Randy and JD recommend. You can get a 20 GPM 12V pump if you really want to pump fuel but that's more for larger operations. The 500 and 1000 gallon fuel trailers have 12V pumps. On the harvest we had a 20 GPM 12V pump on the 1000 gal fuel trailer that started out full every morning and was pumped dry by the time the combines went to the field. It ran off the battery in whatever pickup was pulling it. Plumbing the pump to the bottom bung in the tank will get a few more GPM's than drawing it up through the top but that's only if you really want to pump some fuel. An overhead is way slow and you can't use an automatic nozzle on an overhead tank, or at least I haven't found one that will work on that low of pressure.
 
I don't have use for any tanks so what I am about to say might be way off. You do not have 110 power so 12 volt sounds the way to go. Then if you wire a plug into the systen of your tractor or combine then only you can run the pump so no chance of fuel being stollen. Am I correct on that?
 
David G

Let me rephrase my response.

I see many violations in the responses in this post given as advise.
Rather than flaming or contradicting those that gave them I will just post a link to the rules.

One of the rules.....
The pump must be permanently mounted and locked when not in use.
Permanently mounted includes the electrical supply.
 
(quoted from post at 19:47:32 02/03/18) David G

Let me rephrase my response.

I see many violations in the responses in this post given as advise.
Rather than flaming or contradicting those that gave them I will just post a link to the rules.

One of the rules.....
The pump must be permanently mounted and locked when not in use.
Permanently mounted includes the electrical supply.
Click to expand...
John your in error on this. There is an Agricultural exception for tanks under 1100 gallons in total in a single location. This includes the type and kind of electrical supply plus containment and dikes. The permanent power supply being secured is for 110Volt or high pumps. 12 volt pumps are exempted , in a different section than what you posted.

I just went through this last year when we installed larger tanks at the farm. We have to have containment and such as we are over the 1100 gallon exemption but we do have 12 volt pumps on two tanks that are remotely located. Both passed federal and state inspections when installed.
 
Thank you for the advise JD Seller

But if you want to start a contradicting match lets have at it.

Dave H is in Mi not Iowa
Dave H has a gasboy electrical pump not a 12 volt
Did you even look at the first page of the link I posted
It is for bulk storage of fuel on a farm in Mi
So it already includes your so called agriculture exemptions.

Exactly the reason I kept my mouth shut and just quietly posted a link to the Mi farm rules in my first post.
 
Wow...lots of good information. I printed the PDF and kept it for reference. Why it never occurred to me there would be government regulations on this I do not know. I will follow them, even though they are never going to know about it. I set the tank out there more than a year ago to see if the local PITA drove by and reported me to someone...but nothing. I think I have won him over by rebuilding his old dairy barn. Randy is not going to give me a choice on this tank. Randy actually FOUND me the tank, called me up and told me where to go get it. Now every time he delivers he gives grief about it not being set up.
 
(quoted from post at 18:24:18 02/03/18) Randy is not going to give me a choice on this tank. Randy actually FOUND me the tank, called me up and told me where to go get it. Now every time he delivers he gives grief about it not being set up.
Click to expand...
Skid tank? We just built a small shed around the new 1000 gallon tank back in 1979. Plank floor on skids so its moveable but we never needed to. Tanks and pumps are better under cover anyway. Safe from the elements and prying eyes.
 
When I had my construction company,I had 2 500gal tanks mounted on single axle truck frames, one for on road for the lowboy and one off road for equipment.,ladders secured to the tanks, delivery guy was ok with that.

It was considered Mobil so no containment needed, yes farming is different. All were gravity fed.Excavator on the lowboy was slow but it worked.
 
John,

I appreciate the reply, but I would be in violation of several of the rules, did not even count that one.
 

I read thru what John linked a couple of times, maybe I missed it, I seen to part about the pump being permanently mounted but I didn't see the part about a permanent power supply.

David: For me it depends on how much fuel you will be pumping at any one given time, if it's filling one or two pieces of equipment that would take 50 gallons or less and you plan to run electrical power to fuel tank in the future I'd just install a hand pump and not be out the cost of a 12 volt pump.
Personally I prefer a 12 volt pump over a 120 volt for remote tanks, around here minimum monthly rate for an electric service is around $18 per month, that would be $188 per year just the operate the fuel pump, that would pay for a 12 volt pump in less than 2 years, unless you plan to have electrical power there for other reasons.

I have 4 fuel tanks all in different locations and all in violation of at lease 1 of the rules in that link, 1 required tank is in violation of at lease 3 rules and must be located within 10 ft of where it presently sets so it will always be in violation of those 3 rules.

But then I don't live in MI.
 
I have a gas boy pump on my diesel tank works really well I just have a 110 pigtail and run the pump off an extension cord
 
I use an overhead for gasoline as well. I fill a couple of my really old grain trucks (that I feed bales with or other chores) with it frequently and my grinding tractor is a Farmall M that's gas. I run into trouble if I get low enough because the Farmall is almost as high as the outlet. I've been known to put it in a five gallon can to put in the Farmall before I could get a delivery. That's not so handy. My 2000 gallons of diesel is run with a 110 pump on one tank and the four are plumbed together. I do have a 100 gallon nurse tank if I need it that has a 12 volt pump. I'd says it's about as fast as the 110. It is a pain on my 886 as you can't get to the starter lug or the batteries without crawling around under the muddy tractor. I just bring something else closer if I'm filling it at a remote farm. Luckily everything is in adjoining sections now so I rarely use the nurse tank.
 
[b:654c4848f0] I read thru what John linked a couple of times, maybe I missed it, I seen to part about the pump being permanently mounted but I didn't see the part about a permanent power supply.[/b:654c4848f0]

Do you guys think in your wildest dreams that national fire code would allow a non permanent electrical connection in a hazardous location.
Oh wait we are talking about a farm so they have exemptions.
Lets allow them to make electrical connections be it 12 volt or 110 or allow a generator every time they use the pump. So what if a spark happens and blows them sky high. They are just farmers.

But while you wait for me to go look up the code for you ponder this........

As you read this remember Flammable Liquids is Gasoline. Diesel is a Combustible Liquid.
From the national fire code.......


a255906.jpg
 
I was at a job site last week & we were discussing his "water" problem..
His tank has a 12v pump, wired to a battery, on the concrete no less. lol
& a small 2W solar panel sitting on top of the tank.. powering/charging the battery..
Pretty slick set-up.
 

I had a tank in containment until a couple years ago. I was the third owner. It was a pretty slick set-up. It was an old steel tank of around 800 gal. set in the bottom half of a septic tank. It had a wood framed roof over it, with vertical sidewalls that were approx. three feet hight to allow for a generous door.
 

From the National Fire Code

"Flammable liquids shall not be dispensed by gravity from tanks, drums, barrels or similar containers"

I like that one John!
You've just told everyone how has a overhead tank to supply gas for their old tractors, lawnmowers, ect that they are in violation.
Of the 4 tanks I have one is overhead gravity flow, that one has gas in it, the others are diesel. I'm surprised my fuel supplier continues to fill it, but wait, their the ones that installed it. :?
Does that similar container include the gas can my mother uses the fill her lawn mower, after all that is gravity flow.

I fully agree that any electrical connection made at the pump should be of a permanent design and the other end connected to a battery, generator, 120 v outlet, ect not be on or next to the tank, I also agree that any 120 volt wiring should be run in conduit.
The 12 volt pump on my tank is connected to the battery for my backup generator setting about 15 ft from the tank, the tank is setting less than 10 ft from the building.

All of this reminds me of a conversation with a Ohio DOT officer back in the late 70's, he said at that time there were enough rules on the book's to make it illegal to operate a commercial truck in the state of Ohio. If they pulled you over and wanted to write you a ticket, they could.
 
(quoted from post at 11:04:45 02/04/18)
From the National Fire Code

"Flammable liquids shall not be dispensed by gravity from tanks, drums, barrels or similar containers"

I like that one John!
You've just told everyone how has a overhead tank to supply gas for their old tractors, lawnmowers, ect that they are in violation.
Of the 4 tanks I have one is overhead gravity flow, that one has gas in it, the others are diesel. I'm surprised my fuel supplier continues to fill it, but wait, their the ones that installed it. :?
Does that similar container include the gas can my mother uses the fill her lawn mower, after all that is gravity flow.

I fully agree that any electrical connection made at the pump should be of a permanent design and the other end connected to a battery, generator, 120 v outlet, ect not be on or next to the tank, I also agree that any 120 volt wiring should be run in conduit.
The 12 volt pump on my tank is connected to the battery for my backup generator setting about 15 ft from the tank, the tank is setting less than 10 ft from the building.

All of this reminds me of a conversation with a Ohio DOT officer back in the late 70's, he said at that time there were enough rules on the book's to make it illegal to operate a commercial truck in the state of Ohio. If they pulled you over and wanted to write you a ticket, they could.
Click to expand...

Destroked, some years ago they taught us un the fire service that protection of groundwater was just as important as protecting structures, simply due to the HUGE COST of REMEDIATION. Now just because you are not concerned about it does not mean that there are not plenty of guys who are happy to find this out, and adjust their plans a little to maybe get out from under that risk. If one does not have insurance coverage for groundwater lotion, destroyed, one can easily lose their property due to contamination. So I commend John for pointing it out.
 
(quoted from post at 14:21:52 02/04/18)

Destroked, some years ago they taught us un the fire service that protection of groundwater was just as important as protecting structures, simply due to the HUGE COST of REMEDIATION. Now just because you are not concerned about it does not mean that there are not plenty of guys who are happy to find this out, and adjust their plans a little to maybe get out from under that risk. If one does not have insurance coverage for groundwater lotion, destroyed, one can easily lose their property due to contamination. So I commend John for pointing it out.
Click to expand...

Yea they taught us about ground water protection in our fire service here as well. Not sure where you may have gotten the idea I was unconcerned about it.
After rereading the Mi codes (not sure what they are here) because the tanks in a secondary containment it doesn't have to be 50 ft from a drainage ditch I am in compliance with that code.

Tank setting to close to a building.
Fueling site to close to a building.
Secondary containment allows 0 ft from drainage ditch so I good with that one.
 
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