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Remember the late 1970's foreign tractor craze?

N

NY 986

Well-known Member
They were talking about Deutz over on Red Power and I remember a lot of Deutz, Same, and Kubota's initial push in the US. They were not sold by guys in a farm building but by dealers who were established with IH or JD or Case in most instances. All were lamenting where tractor prices were in comparison to a decade ago and farmers suffering sticker shock on IH 1086's and JD 4440's. I think that Deutz had the best sales results locally especially in vineyard and orchard country. IIRC prices were maybe just a little over 2/3 of what the domestic competition was. Guys who bought the foreign tractors were bragging about the fuel economy while out chopping corn and having MFWD to chop corn during the wet falls for less than a domestic 2WD of similar HP.
 
My uncle had a Same. Had problems with the hydraulics and rear end ? Was in the shop several times. IIRC they found evidence of a broken off pop bottle down in there likely from when it was sitting on the dealer lot. Hard to blame the tractor when something like that is found. I think they had no engine troubles.
 
There were alot of Deutz and Same tractors sold around here in the late 70s early 80s. My great uncle farmed with two deutz tractors. Now ive got one of them 45 06, and my brother has the other 62 06. There were at least half a dozen other ones around the neighborhood. When the dealership burned down my dad cleaned up the site with his excavator. It was Dawleys garage.
 
In my opinion the European tractors were far more advanced and fuel efficient than the us built tractors, except for the Belerus. They were however a more dependent on good PM care and service. I think for the most part that still holds true. Fendt tractors are a good example.
Along these same lines, the imported tractors have always seamed to have bigger and better tires than US built tractors.
Loren
 
Along these same lines, the imported tractors have always seamed to have bigger and better tires than US built tractors.
Loren
Click to expand...

A lot of that has to do with two factors:

1. Width limits in the UK and Europe. You can't run duals down those narrow stone-lined roads, so you get your rubber on the ground by having super-wide, low-profile tires tucked in tight to the tractor.

2. Prevalence of row crops in the US, requiring narrow tires to fit between.
 
Kabota is heavy around here now, Deutz was farirly big at one time, then dealerretired and closed up so that was the end of them. Same never saw one.
 
Kubota seems to be on a path to establish a growing presence in the USA Ag world. They have been slowly growing their dealership and models over the past 25 years.

Deutz had/has fairly good tractors, but they splashed around too much trying to take over the Ag market, not grow into it. So we quickly got the idea that they would come and go, only fair weather company, not worth risking them being around in 15 years for parts and dealerships... at this point I just don't trust Deutz any more would not buy their stuff.

In the 90s the nearby Case-IH dealerships took on the east European tractors as an economy line. Brain is locked up, can't say the name now, started with a B? With that backing a lot of folks bought them, but the rear ends couldn't hold up to our style of farming in tough heavy ground and lot of livestock utility loader conditions. All fell apart in a decade, no one wants to see one of those tractors any more, especially the dealerships!

The USA Ag economy runs in cycles, and farm machinery can last longer than a cycle, so any Ag dealership network has to grow slowly and be set up to weather the cycles of good and poor sales in both new iron and old parts. If you don't set up right for that, you will not be around over 20 years. (To be honest I don't know if JD and Case-NH are prepared for the next cycle!)

Good luck to kubota, they might make it, they seem to have some grit for the market.

Paul
 
local bankers refused to loan one red cent on a foreign tractor.If you wanted one,you financed it through the dealer/manufacturer.
 
My father in law still has several 06 Deutz tractors. I have not found them to be very "advanced". Lots of gears (especially slow ones) but really basic hydraulics, etc. Also, they are really difficult to find parts for it seems.
 
There used to be a guy in the north country in New York that sold Belarus tractors and I guess he sold quite a few. There were very very few of those around here.
 
A neighbor bought a new Deutz 100-06 when they first came out here. That thing was in the shop for so long that first year that I completely forgot he even bought it. Rear end problems.
 
I recall in our small town and I mean small, the local gas station owner brought in a few Nuffields (spelling?) They were eventually sold, this would have been in the '60s
 
A guy in the area had the next generation after the 100-06 and he had transmission issues as well. It took the better part of 20,000 dollars to square it up but was fine after that. Nonetheless the experience left a bad taste in the farmer's mouth so he bought a JD 4450 MFWD when they first came out. By that time the novelty was over and the blockmen for the American companies were on the backs of the dealers who also carried one of the American brands to get rid of them or not get the contract renewed when the time came.
 
There used to be a good MFdealer nearby so we see a few old MFs around. The local dealer is selling Kubotas. There are lots around now. The JD dealer is 65 miles away. There is a few around. They had a deal like no interest for 4 yrs or something. My neighbor bought one. Ed Will Oliver BC
 

[b:0ce18da67c]Ironically aren't most all tractors foreign?[/b:0ce18da67c] All the small ones are Japanese, medium ones are Indian, and the big ones are from all over.. especially the parts.

Question should be..... Is there a 100% american tractor??

How bout a 85% american tractor?
 
A fair number of those foreign tractors were sold here at that time. However, I cannot think of even one still around, whereas there are still a number of farmers owning their original IH, Case ,JD, MF , Ford etc. Kinda indicates which were the better machine for North American conditions.
Ben
 
are you talking about belarus? there a few of them around here they seemed to be lots of trouble.
i knew a young man just starting out farming his gave him lots of headaches more than once his wife drug he and tractor out of field on end of chain
 
Same, Duetz, and Nuffield all sold well in this area. Oliver sold a train load of Fiats. They all seemed to have similar characteristics. Longer lived, more fuel efficient engines. Pretty much everything behind the engine to varying degrees, especially hydraulics, were inferior to American tractors of the period.
 
This one got traded off on a new Allis Chalmers 7000. The dealer wasn't happy when he got it in to the shop. All the bolt holes that held the drawbar on were stripped out. The owner had the drawbar held on with a log chain and binder.
 
(quoted from post at 10:56:38 01/31/18) There were alot of Deutz and Same tractors sold around here in the late 70s early 80s. My great uncle farmed with two deutz tractors. Now ive got one of them 45 06, and my brother has the other 62 06. There were at least half a dozen other ones around the neighborhood. When the dealership burned down my dad cleaned up the site with his excavator. It was Dawleys garage.
Click to expand...

Where was that place located Brendon?
 

Belarus seems to be a hit or miss type of thing. I know a guy that has one that has been absolutely bulletproof and has never failed him. He loves it. OTOH, I've seen a lot for sale that look like they got used real hard and put away wet. I know my neighbor abused the heck out of 2 of them and the problems he had weren't caused by the tractor!
 
(quoted from post at 14:12:45 01/31/18) Same, Duetz, and Nuffield all sold well in this area. Oliver sold a train load of Fiats. They all seemed to have similar characteristics. Longer lived, more fuel efficient engines. Pretty much everything behind the engine to varying degrees, especially hydraulics, were inferior to American tractors of the period.
Click to expand...

Don, I've passed on a few Nuffields at auction because I knew nothing about them. After talking with a friend who has several, I'm not anywhere near so hesitant now. Of course, now I'm not seeing those $300.00 running tractors like the ones i passed on!
 
Belarus and some other little Rumanian? tractor started showing up here in the late sixties. Seen a few of the great big four wheel drive Belarus on some of the big farms. Maybe a bit crude and rough compared to the U.S. built but good mechanically. Deutz tractors were sold by CI (Co-op Implements) dealers. CI had a full line of green farm equipment for a while. Not sure where the company ended up but its history now.
a255518.jpg
 
I understand the reason tractors from Europe have bigger rubber is because many roads are narrow , and dual tires on a tractor just won't go down old narrow roads. Little larger tires can travel the road , and still give more float.
 
The late 70's JD brought in Yanmar made tractors. In around 1982 we got a new model 750. Still at Dad's place. One of the all time best made trouble free things ever made !
 
I've owned and used a lot of different tractors US and foreign built and I've never had one trouble free that sooner or later if I used it something was going to need fixing.Think
sometime people tend to 'forget' the problems with their favorite brands but can remember the problems the neighbors had with different brands(LOL)
 
Yup, that it. I think for a short time the IHC dealerships were selling a lot of 80 or so hp utility size machines, until the problems started....

Paul
 
How could a pop bottle get into a tractor rear end setting on a dealer lot? Would not the tractor have to be dismantled for that to happen? I would rather think an assembly worker had it and droped it in while working and was afraid of getting in trouble having it on an assembly line by stopping the line to get it out.
 
If I recall correctly, didn't McFadden's sell Belarus tractors at one time? There also used to be a Belarus dealer right down the road from where I live. There are still some around yet. Few years ago I knew a guy that his 2 big tractors were I think 820 Belaruses. He did a lot of work with them. Pulled a JD 3940 chopper and an IH 5 bottom plow in pretty heavy ground. Seemed to get along fine. Have a friend that also had 2 at one time. Both 500's. I swear those things would run forever on a tank of fuel. Turning radius wasn't the best and a little crude, but got the job done.

Neighbor has a Duetz he has had forever. Has a loader on it. Seems to get along fine with that. Went to an auction close by this summer and they sold two of them. Both right around 65 horse or so. 6208 brought $3500 and 7206 brought $5250. Kubota is starting to be seen a little more now as well.
 
Zetor? I tried one of those out once. I decided in a hurry that if the commies couldn't feed themselves,it was because of tractors like that. You practically had to get out of the seat and turn around to engage the PTO on those things. What a rough built new antique those things were.

There was a Belarus dealer here who sold the heck out of those,but they were just a flash in the pan. The place right up around the curve bought a new one. 100 horse with a cab and FWA. They sold out two years later and the tractor only brought $6000. The dealer bought it back.
 
growing up in Europe those were all we saw and used for tractors. They were up to the task that they were intended to do and many have looged lots and lots of hours. Now some of the eastern European brands were a little more crude than others, some people loved them other people not so, but they all got the job done.
 
Indeed. I bought a new 750 in 1988 and sold it for better than half of new price in 2015, 27 years later.

Not a thing wrong with it. In that time I put one alternator and one voltage regulator on it. Other than that, never put a nickle into it beyond tires and batteries. Only reason I sold it is I wanted to move up to something with a cab, power steering and live PTO.
 
I think they thought someone stuck it in the fill and broke it off ? I never saw it. It very well could of been an assembly worker ?
 

Well, those same guys were crying in thier beer when they went to sell them. I went to a sale in Muscoda WI a couple months ago and there was a 90's Duetz 130 hp 4wd tractor there with 2500ish hours on it. It sold for $10,500. Had he bought a 4440 or 4450 and used it the same way, that one owner, low hour tractor would have hit over $40,000, if not much more! Hindsight 20/20

I think these brands came in because the crop prices were good, and there were months long waiting lists for US tractors. They could bring them in and sell them to farmers clamoring for tractors.
 
Here we had only one Doytz dealer in driving distance, when he retired if I remember correctly he closed up his bussiness completely because of health issues. That was the end of the Gehl line of machinery that about every dairy had. I remember him demestrating a new tractor and he could set a nickle on the hood on its edge while that tractor was running and it would syay settin on edge, tractor run that smooth. But that one Doytz dealer was more than we had in Case & Moline. When Doytz and Allis became Doytz-Allis then the Allis completely dissapered with no dealers.
 
(quoted from post at 10:39:51 02/01/18)
Well, those same guys were crying in thier beer when they went to sell them. I went to a sale in Muscoda WI a couple months ago and there was a 90's Duetz 130 hp 4wd tractor there with 2500ish hours on it. It sold for $10,500. Had he bought a 4440 or 4450 and used it the same way, that one owner, low hour tractor would have hit over $40,000, if not much more! Hindsight 20/20

I think these brands came in because the crop prices were good, and there were months long waiting lists for US tractors. They could bring them in and sell them to farmers clamoring for tractors.
Click to expand...

I just looked up both tractors on Tractor House and see the Deere running from $19-50K and the Duetz running from $17-40K. The Deere cost how much more new?
 
(quoted from post at 10:10:31 02/01/18)
(quoted from post at 10:39:51 02/01/18)
Well, those same guys were crying in thier beer when they went to sell them. I went to a sale in Muscoda WI a couple months ago and there was a 90's Duetz 130 hp 4wd tractor there with 2500ish hours on it. It sold for $10,500. Had he bought a 4440 or 4450 and used it the same way, that one owner, low hour tractor would have hit over $40,000, if not much more! Hindsight 20/20

I think these brands came in because the crop prices were good, and there were months long waiting lists for US tractors. They could bring them in and sell them to farmers clamoring for tractors.
Click to expand...


I just looked up both tractors on Tractor House and see the Deere running from $19-50K and the Duetz running from $17-40K. The Deere cost how much more new?
Click to expand...


You don't get very reliable results on tractorhouse regarding prices. A dealer likely would have been ASKING twice what the Duetz sold for. Doesn't mean diddly. It was a one owner low hour 4wd tractor at a farm retirement auction. He likely couldn't have gotten more anywhere, except maybe an online auction. The sale was well attended and everything sold for what it was worth or better. There was a Deere 60 that wouldn't start under a 237 picker that sold for just over $2000 and a 574 IH with bad parking brake that sold for nearly 5k.

I looked up prices on tractorhouse myself because I always doubt what you say, Bret - 4450- $21,500-60,000 Highest priced Duetz in 100-175 hp range is a DX140 at $16,500. As usual, your info is less-than-accurate.

Tractordata, which also sometimes has inaccurate info shows a 4450 sold for $54,000 in 1988 - no mention of how it was optioned out, but that sounds like a fully loaded price. Dunno what a Duetz DX6.50 would have sold for, but I doubt it would have covered the resale value gap. That, and I've driven both SGB Deere tractors and Duetz tractors, and would rather drive the Deere for just about any job.

Fact remains, import tractors are not usually a good value over the long term.
 
(quoted from post at 16:37:10 02/01/18)
(quoted from post at 10:10:31 02/01/18)
(quoted from post at 10:39:51 02/01/18)
Well, those same guys were crying in thier beer when they went to sell them. I went to a sale in Muscoda WI a couple months ago and there was a 90's Duetz 130 hp 4wd tractor there with 2500ish hours on it. It sold for $10,500. Had he bought a 4440 or 4450 and used it the same way, that one owner, low hour tractor would have hit over $40,000, if not much more! Hindsight 20/20

I think these brands came in because the crop prices were good, and there were months long waiting lists for US tractors. They could bring them in and sell them to farmers clamoring for tractors.
Click to expand...


I just looked up both tractors on Tractor House and see the Deere running from $19-50K and the Duetz running from $17-40K. The Deere cost how much more new?
Click to expand...



I looked up prices on tractorhouse myself because I always doubt what you say, Bret - 4450- $21,500-60,000 Highest priced Duetz in 100-175 hp range is a DX140 at $16,500. As usual, your info is less-than-accurate.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you're looking at, but to find a Duetz at the highest price of $16,500 I had to go back to the late 70's/early 80's. Looking at mid 90's tractors, which is what you specified as far as Deutz went, there are no $16K 100-175 hp tractors. I;m not arguing at all that Deere's don't hold their value. I'm simply pointing out that they also cost a lot more new and for some people that makes all the difference. As far as you always doubting what I say, tough cookies bud. I have no reason to lie about anything I post here. I you disagree with something, then back it up. If I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it. But you seem to be cherry picking your facts. For myself, I wouldn't pass up an affordable Deere or a Deutz. Everyone told me David Brown was junk I'd never be able to get parts for. Horse puckey! I'm perfectly happy letting others be tractor color snobs and buying the stuff they say is no good. It's worked out for me.

https://www.external_link.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/21864411/1988-deutz-allis-7145

https://www.external_link.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/10247411/1990-deutz-allis-9150

https://www.external_link.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/10781587/1990-deutz-allis-9170
 
(quoted from post at 16:37:10 02/01/18)
(quoted from post at 10:10:31 02/01/18)
(quoted from post at 10:39:51 02/01/18)
Well, those same guys were crying in thier beer when they went to sell them. I went to a sale in Muscoda WI a couple months ago and there was a 90's Duetz 130 hp 4wd tractor there with 2500ish hours on it. It sold for $10,500. Had he bought a 4440 or 4450 and used it the same way, that one owner, low hour tractor would have hit over $40,000, if not much more! Hindsight 20/20

I think these brands came in because the crop prices were good, and there were months long waiting lists for US tractors. They could bring them in and sell them to farmers clamoring for tractors.
Click to expand...


I just looked up both tractors on Tractor House and see the Deere running from $19-50K and the Duetz running from $17-40K. The Deere cost how much more new?
Click to expand...



I looked up prices on tractorhouse myself because I always doubt what you say, Bret - 4450- $21,500-60,000 Highest priced Duetz in 100-175 hp range is a DX140 at $16,500. As usual, your info is less-than-accurate.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you're looking at, but to find a Duetz at the highest price of $16,500 I had to go back to the late 70's/early 80's. Looking at mid 90's tractors, which is what you specified as far as Deutz went, there are no $16K 100-175 hp tractors. I;m not arguing at all that Deere's don't hold their value. I'm simply pointing out that they also cost a lot more new and for some people that makes all the difference. As far as you always doubting what I say, tough cookies bud. I have no reason to lie about anything I post here. I you disagree with something, then back it up. If I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it. But you seem to be cherry picking your facts. For myself, I wouldn't pass up an affordable Deere or a Deutz. Everyone told me David Brown was junk I'd never be able to get parts for. Horse puckey! I'm perfectly happy letting others be tractor color snobs and buying the stuff they say is no good. It's worked out for me.

https://www.external_link.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/21864411/1988-deutz-allis-7145

https://www.external_link.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/10247411/1990-deutz-allis-9150

https://www.external_link.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/10781587/1990-deutz-allis-9170
 


I don't know what you're looking at, but to find a Duetz at the highest price of $16,500 I had to go back to the late 70's/early 80's. Looking at mid 90's tractors, which is what you specified as far as Deutz went, there are no $16K 100-175 hp tractors. I;m not arguing at all that Deere's don't hold their value. I'm simply pointing out that they also cost a lot more new and for some people that makes all the difference. As far as you always doubting what I say, tough cookies bud. I have no reason to lie about anything I post here. I you disagree with something, then back it up. If I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it. But you seem to be cherry picking your facts. For myself, I wouldn't pass up an affordable Deere or a Deutz. Everyone told me David Brown was junk I'd never be able to get parts for. Horse puckey! I'm perfectly happy letting others be tractor color snobs and buying the stuff they say is no good. It's worked out for me.

https://www.external_link.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/21864411/1988-deutz-allis-7145

https://www.external_link.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/10247411/1990-deutz-allis-9150

https://www.external_link.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/10781587/1990-deutz-allis-9170
 

I don't know why, but my response to Rocky only shows up in Classic View on my browser. ???


I don't know what you're looking at, but to find a Duetz at the highest price of $16,500 I had to go back to the late 70's/early 80's. Looking at mid 90's tractors, which is what you specified as far as Deutz went, there are no $16K 100-175 hp tractors. I;m not arguing at all that Deere's don't hold their value. I'm simply pointing out that they also cost a lot more new and for some people that makes all the difference. As far as you always doubting what I say, tough cookies bud. I have no reason to lie about anything I post here. I you disagree with something, then back it up. If I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it. But you seem to be cherry picking your facts. For myself, I wouldn't pass up an affordable Deere or a Deutz. Everyone told me David Brown was junk I'd never be able to get parts for. Horse puckey! I'm perfectly happy letting others be tractor color snobs and buying the stuff they say is no good. It's worked out for me.
 

Since people want to get insulting, I'll carry this a little further. I looked and was able to find an MSRP for the 4440 Deere in 1980 of $44K. Using an inflation calculator I found that what $44K would buy in 1980 would be estimated to cost $81K in 1995, the era we're talking about. I can't find what a mid 90's 130 hp Deutz cost new, but I doubt it was $81K. That's what I mean by the selling price of the new tractor being the deciding factor for a lot of people. I suppose if the choice was between a new 130 Deutz in 1995 and a used 1980's JD 4440 that would muddle things up even more.

Regardless, resorting to insults is a poor way to argue your point.
 

Bret,

It was a Deutz (green), not a Deutz-allis (orange). It was actually a Deutz-Fahr, but most of those are much newer and overseas. I just looked up the sale bill and this is what it said - Deutz DX 6.50 diesel tractor w/cab & air, 3 pt dual hyds, 540 & 1000 PRM PTO’s, 20.8×38 rears 1 OWNER, 2115 original hours! - Closest one is under "Deutz-Fahr" on tractorhouse, but it's in Ireland for $11,211.

I'm gonna step away from this thread because I know how much you LOVE getting the last word.
 

Whatever guy. More insults aren't proving your point. I'd still take any tractor of any brand if the price was right for the shape it's in.
 
I'm with you on that and the different brands I have proves it,I've found the David Brown and Fiat built tractors to be fuel efficient and very reliable.Bought a 24HP Bolens built by
Iseki several years ago for next to nothing been running a 4ft tiller and 4ft bush hog with it couldn't ask for a better little tractor.
 
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