dead 110v circuit in seasonal home

SDE · Jan 20, 2018

My sister tried to turn on the light to the laundry room at her cabin. It was dead. She re set the circuit breaker and the light and the garage light still do not work. How do you find the problem? When I go over there, I thought that I would turn off the Main and check to see if the wiring to the breaker is loose or dis connected, but after that I will be some what clueless as to how to proceed from there.
SDE

showcrop · Jan 20, 2018

Probably on a circuit with a bad GFCI.

IaGary · Jan 20, 2018

Could be a loose wire in one of the outlet or switch boxes on that circuit. Chances are it is in the last box that is working or the first box that is not working if you know the route of the circuit.

Gary

4020 electrician · Jan 20, 2018

Check for a tripped GFI. How old is this wiring? If it's 2 conductor cloth wiring and 3 wire plugs it's GFI protected somewhere. You sure the lights weren't left on and lamps are bad?

Phil9N3667 · Jan 20, 2018

If you know how to use a multi meter (digital or analog), check for voltage on the bus bars, then 115 out of the breaker. As mentioned earlier, verify it's not a GFCI breaker, may be a bad GFCI. If so, it'll need to be R&R or the tripping issue resolved. If you're comfortable doing it, leave the main breaker off (verify no power), then check the ground/neutral wires in the box. These are just suggestions if you can work comfortably with AC voltage. Otherwise, get a qualified electrician or a friend that you know can do it. Above all, be safe!

4020 electrician · Jan 20, 2018

Voltage testers are a must in this situation. Really tuff to find the problem without it.

Greg K · Jan 20, 2018

In addition to the answers you already have, make sure it's not the bulb. If the lights were left on the last time and all the bulbs are burned out now you can end up with this situation.

Stephen Newell · Jan 20, 2018

That can sometimes be very difficult to find since the wires are often hidden in the walls were you can't get to them. You might start with a non-contact voltage tester at the light switch and see if there is power there. With that type tester you can touch the middle of the wire where it's insulated and it will tell you if there is power in the wire or not. If there is power there you might turn the power off and try replacing the switch and see if that fixes it. If there is power there but the light still doesn't work check to see if the white wire is not making a good connection. If there is no power there that leaves going from the breaker box to the switch with the voltage tester and see if you can find where the power stops. This can be very difficult and time consuming. When I'm working for a customer by the hour if it looks like it's going to be many hours work to find the short I will just pull a new wire.

D beatty · Jan 20, 2018

You said she had no lights in garage or laundry room but did she try any wall plugs? She could have a bad light switch or switches or burned out bulbs. Then take a tester and test for power at wall plugs and at breaker before taring into anything.

SDE · Jan 20, 2018

After they re set the breaker and the light did not work, I asked if the bulb was burnt out. I also suggested to them to check and see if any of the outlets had the re setting trip fuse in them. That was last night at dinner and I hope that that is the problem. I am waiting for a more reasonable time to call them this morning, to see if they managed to fix the problem last night. I have a days worth of work to do today, without going over there. If that did not fix the problem, then I figured that it would require my checking every outlet in the run.
TY
SDE

grandpa Love · Jan 20, 2018

2 years back lightning hit a pecan tree about 200 ft behind our house. The lightning traveled under ground and some how followed an under ground wire into the house ,it went through the attic and the next morning our front porch circuit didn't work. 3 lights ,2 plugs, outside one was GFCI. Couldn't figure it out. Breaker would flip on but no power. My neighbor is an electrician and he said his mom's house( her house is on his property) had same issue,from same strike. He traced the problem to a burnt wire in attic. Where the wire was stapled to a joist the lightning blew out! Same thing in my attic. We had to run a new wire from breaker box. Both of us were lucky that we didn't have a fire. Squirrels love wires too. Maybe ate all the coating off and shorted it out.

JDEM · Jan 20, 2018

If the wiring is conventional, the light circuit is not hooked to any wall outlets anywhere and no GFCIs. 15 amp breaker I assume. First thing to do is take a $5 multimeter and check voltage at the breaker to make sure it is not bad. Of course, that is assuming you know the bulbs are not burnt out and you don't have pull-chain switches on your lights that are bad.

Often knowing some history helps. Has the cabin been empty for awhile and did everything work last time it was used?

If this is a part-time use cabin where anybody adds to the wiring in any way they feel like - anything is possible. I have had many a dead circuit from bad wire-splices in the walls. One time just two wires twisted together and wrapped with duct-tape.

Since you mention a laundry room, I wonder if someone added a GFCI outlet,and then tapped a light circuit into it. NOT the correct way to wire, but in a cabin, who knows? Light circuits are usually 15 amp on their own dedicated circuit with no GFCIs and 14 gauge wire. Circuits for outlets are often 20 amp and 12 gauge wire. What size breaker goes to this circuit?

Leroy · Jan 20, 2018

Is the garage light part of the door opener? A door opener should be on its own circut as they take too much power to be on a circut with anything else. So if garage light is part of door opener then there should be 3 seperate circuts involved. So that would indicate the breaker box.

dr sportster · Jan 20, 2018

Check all GFIs . Try to start in the middle of the circuit. You may have to open a lot of boxes and inspect.

shaun wallace · Jan 20, 2018

May be at meter. Had one that had bad lug in meter box. That was a REA job.

FBH44 · Jan 20, 2018

Get one of those little voltage sticks, that will buzz and light up when it's within inches of a live wire. Will go off within inches of 120 volts, within a foot of 480. Get them anyplace. Test on a known live circuit. These gizmos will test individual wires.

Steve@Advance · Jan 20, 2018

First, check the obvious, bad lamp, bad fixture, bad ballast, bad switch.

The most common causes of a dead circuit are:

Defective breaker, especially ground fault breakers. Check for power at the breaker, where the wire connects.

A tripped GFI receptacle. The receptacle can feed other circuits down stream.

A bad connection behind a receptacle. Many contractors use the push in spring clip type receptacles. They are prone to get loose, burn the spring and loose connection, especially where there is a heavy load, like a washing machine, heater, etc. If aluminum wire was used, this is a very common problem. If you know which breaker controls the light, turn off the breaker, check all the outlets in the area to see if any are on that circuit. Then start pulling the receptacles out, inspecting the wires. CAUTION!!! Some outlets share a neutral! If the neutral has failed, or when the neutral circuit is removed from the receptacle, power can back feed from another circuit, making the neutral hot!

Trying to determine what is on a circuit is somewhat difficult. Typically the lighting circuit is separate from the outlets, but not always. The general rule, try to imagine the route that would use the least amount of wire. It is rare for a wire to be spliced inside a wall, but it happens. I usually assume that as a last resort. Check, double check before tearing into something unnecessarily.

David G · Jan 20, 2018

It could be anything, you just gotta trouble shoot it, or if not comfortable doing that get someone that is.

MarkB_MI · Jan 20, 2018

Troubleshooting these problems requires a voltmeter and a knowledge of basic electrical theory. If you're not in possession of both these things, it's best to let a licensed electrician handle it.

buickanddeere · Jan 20, 2018

if the place was properly wired. There will be no receptacles on a lighting circuit.

CKain(MI) · Jan 20, 2018

Those 'beeper' testors can be put up close to any electrical wire and if it beeps, there is voltage inside. preet handy, except--- if the neutral is bad, it won't tell you that.

SDE · Jan 20, 2018

The first outlet in the run needed to have the GFIC reset. I did not press it far enough to re set it the first time and so I pulled it out and found that there was current to it. I pressed it in farther the second time and then noticed that it had a very small green light in the bottom right corner.
The filler valve on the toilet was plugged with rust and I also got the 4 wheeler started. Now I am her favorite brother. At least for today anyway.
TY
SDE

dpendzic · Jan 20, 2018

Not true---the NEC allows both on a circuit--lighting does not have to be on a dedicated circuit

showcrop · Jan 20, 2018

(quoted from post at 18:10:53 01/20/18) The first outlet in the run needed to have the GFIC reset. I did not press it far enough to re set it the first time and so I pulled it out and found that there was current to it. I pressed it in farther the second time and then noticed that it had a very small green light in the bottom right corner.
The filler valve on the toilet was plugged with rust and I also got the 4 wheeler started. Now I am her favorite brother. At least for today anyway.
TY
SDE

Congratulations!

showcrop · Jan 20, 2018

(quoted from post at 18:10:53 01/20/18) The first outlet in the run needed to have the GFIC reset. I did not press it far enough to re set it the first time and so I pulled it out and found that there was current to it. I pressed it in farther the second time and then noticed that it had a very small green light in the bottom right corner.
The filler valve on the toilet was plugged with rust and I also got the 4 wheeler started. Now I am her favorite brother. At least for today anyway.
TY
SDE

Congratulations!

showcrop · Jan 20, 2018

(quoted from post at 12:52:23 01/20/18)
if the place was properly wired. There will be no receptacles on a lighting circuit.

I think that most of us when we saw the word "cabin" decided that the "if" in this case is a very big "IF"

olgentdc · Jan 20, 2018

gfi,on the circuit somewhere is tripped ..my porch lite played that trick on me,,, finally found the culprit in the hot tub room,directly under the porch .,.

buickanddeere · Jan 20, 2018

(quoted from post at 21:25:29 01/20/18) Not true---the NEC allows both on a circuit--lighting does not have to be on a dedicated circuit

You missed the point. Lights should not have receptacles on with them. If someone over loads the receptacle circuit , the lights won't go out . If wired to good practice.

dr sportster · Jan 22, 2018

You should see how they wire things in Florida. Two hot 14.2 circuits in one box { not a three wire]. Things you have never seen or would do.

David G · Jan 22, 2018

It is common in the US to wire lights to room circuit, I did not like that at first, but now just ask if lights are on in that room.

David G · Jan 22, 2018

B&D, you do not know what you are talking about.

buickanddeere · Jan 22, 2018

It is common enough to place lights and receptacles on the same circuit . And place lights downstream of a GFCI.
Isn’t against code but it is certainly poor practice ,a lack of planning and an indication of cheapest, easiest and fastest mentality .

David G · Jan 22, 2018

It is common practice in the US to do it, powering lights from other sources is rare anymore. I actually prefer it now, easier to get diagnosis from home owner, ask them if lights are on in that room, and one breaker to look for.

dead 110v circuit in seasonal home

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