(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

OT, Thoughts On A Situation...

B

Bryce Frazier

Well-known Member
So, I am seeking a little knowledge tonight.

My girlfriend works from some VERY wealthy people, taking care of 4 horses.

She came home from visiting me, and they told her that they no longer needed her, and that was the end of that, no warning, nothing. Just said they decided to go with someone else. Which I totally understand! No hard feelings, she moves on.

Well, back up about 4 months, she had hurt her foot really bad, and missed 2 weeks of work. The Wife insisted, and I mean like forced, a pay check to her for both weeks, giving her the $200 she would have normally made.

My girlfriend wanted nothing to do with this, and confronted the wife several times, to the point of which the wife got really quite belligerent one night, and told her that it is just a gift because they care so much about her, and she was insulting them by not cashing the check. My girlfriend dropped it at that point, and cashed both checks.

After she was back to work, she offered several times to work off the money she had been given, and they wouldn't hear anything of it. So she dropped it again.

Now 3 weeks after they abruptly fired her, they mailed her a bill for $400! Girlfriend called and asked what was going on, and the Wife got nasty with her, and said that she owed them the money they had given her! Girlfriend politely tells her that now she is out of work, and hasn't been making money anywhere, and is barely scraping by to go to college (which is completely true!). And the wife told her, "well figure it out".

She doesn't have the money, and hasn't been able to find a job willing to work around her school hours. Now I am in this rut. Girlfriend is really upset, doesn't know what to do, and is afraid if she doesn't pay them she is going to end up in court. Do I contact this woman and make out a check? What would any of you do in this situation? Thanks
 

She doesn't owe them anything. A gift is just that. The worst the person could do is take her to small claims court and try to get the money....the wife would lose badly. Girlfriend has nothing to worry about. Small claims court doesn't require a lawyer, you just stand up and state your side of the situation and the judge decides.
 
If that will make a clean break for her from all the drama, it's WORTH it, IMHO.

Sounds like the woman is CRAZY and any further contact/dealings will just perpetuate the situation.
 
I wouldn't do anything, from the information provided there is absolutely nothing legally that the woman who wrote the check can do to press for the money back, if that is all there is to the story. I will say this, the whole story is very odd and seems to be missing a catalyst but on the other hand, maybe the woman who owns the horses is a nut. You might want to ask yourself how much of this story you can independently verify, in other words, what do you know for 100% fact as opposed to what you have only been told.
 
I agree 100%. Don't pay it and don't have anymore contact with the people. Small claims judge will easily decide in your favor but will probably never get there. Is this woman on any meds and/or alcaholic? Just keep the bills and have NO contact. Don't let her bait you an the phone into saying ANYTHING more. She will use it against you if goes to court.
 
I'd just ignore the whole thing. Unless we don't know the entire story, it doesn't sound like this woman has anything actionable.
 
I really do not think they will go to court.

If she got hurt on the job they really owe her the money.
 
Bryce I see I am in the minority here. Does your girl friend owe her former employer the money??? No it was given as a gift. At least at the time.

Now I am going to talk to you as a husband and Father. If the $400 dollars would not be a hardship on you, I would just get a cashiers check and mail it in a certified letter to your girl friend's former employer. I would send it Certified with a Return Receipt. This way you have proof that the money was returned. I would just include a statement saying " $400 returned to xxxxx that was given to xxxxx", First blank The former employer's name. The second blank your girl friend's name. Say nothing else. The reason I would do this and in this manner is this: If you can afford it the money would be well spent to relieve your girl friend from worrying about this and her suffering unneeded stress/anger. This should be your main concern in this case. Your girl friend is going to college, unemployed unexpectedly, and dating you. ( Last I just had to include as a "stress" LOL) It is not worth the time, effort, stress, or anger in having a major battle/confrontation with the former employer. In doing it this way you and your girl friend can hold your heads high knowing neither of you are beholden to the former employer in anyway. You have taken care of/protected your girl friend. In your future your going to have this to do with your future wife and children. Taking care of the problems life throws at them and you.

As I have gotten older I have changed or mellowed out on these type of things. Yes it is easier since money is not as tight as it used to be but the main reason is I do not want or need drama in my life anymore. It just is not worth it anymore to "PROVE" I am right all of the time. I am not willing to give some one like this former employer any of my time and energy. I try an make my life as smooth as possible. I just do not sweat the small stuff anymore.

Your girl friend and you both could easily waste days/weeks of your attention and energy fooling with this former employer. So just pay the woman the amount and move on. The sun will shine brighter for you and your girl friend with this behind you. Negative people just suck the fun/brightness out of life.
 
Bryce I see I am in the minority here. Does your girl friend owe her former employer the money??? No it was given as a gift. At least at the time.

Now I am going to talk to you as a husband and Father. If the $400 dollars would not be a hardship on you, I would just get a cashiers check and mail it in a certified letter to your girl friend's former employer. I would send it Certified with a Return Receipt. This way you have proof that the money was returned. I would just include a statement saying " $400 returned to xxxxx that was given to xxxxx", First blank The former employer's name. The second blank your girl friend's name. Say nothing else. The reason I would do this and in this manner is this: If you can afford it the money would be well spent to relieve your girl friend from worrying about this and her suffering unneeded stress/anger. This should be your main concern in this case. Your girl friend is going to college, unemployed unexpectedly, and dating you. ( Last I just had to include as a "stress" LOL) It is not worth the time, effort, stress, or anger in having a major battle/confrontation with the former employer. In doing it this way you and your girl friend can hold your heads high knowing neither of you are beholden to the former employer in anyway. You have taken care of/protected your girl friend. In your future your going to have this to do with your future wife and children. Taking care of the problems life throws at them and you.

As I have gotten older I have changed or mellowed out on these type of things. Yes it is easier since money is not as tight as it used to be but the main reason is I do not want or need drama in my life anymore. It just is not worth it anymore to "PROVE" I am right all of the time. I am not willing to give some one like this former employer any of my time and energy. I try an make my life as smooth as possible. I just do not sweat the small stuff anymore.

Your girl friend and you both could easily waste days/weeks of your attention and energy fooling with this former employer. So just pay the woman the amount and move on. The sun will shine brighter for you and your girl friend with this behind you. Negative people just suck the fun/brightness out of life.
 
Owe her money for what? There is very little that an employer can collect from an employee. If your wife broke or lost something, harmed one of the animals, even if she stole, the employer may not take it from her check or even bill for it. Businesses that have a cash drawer may not demand payment for shortages. They may fire over it but cannot collect. I'm fairly certain this varies very little state to state. Contact your state's labor board.
 
Bryce-Be careful, here. Might want to step back away from this. Men jump in and want to SOLVE the problem. Sometimes women just want to TALK about the problem. Might be best not to get between two women.
 
Sounds to me like there's something more going on there than what lies on the surface. If I had to take a guess, I'd say someone probably let loose some bad gossip.

As for the supposed gift, that's just what it was - a gift. For them to ask for it back now is simply them trying to be hurtful. Your girlfriend is under NO obligations to pay the money back.

Now is when I'll stand with JD Seller -- and there are 2 reasons I do this. 1) It's entirely plausible that these "wealthy people" have just hit some hard times; may end up being nothing, but might be the start of a financial downfall. This might be their way of grasping for straws. Might also be that something that was once there is now not, and they're blaming your girlfriend. In any case, that leads to reason 2), which is, regardless of whether this is a large city or a small, rural area, these folks will have more pull and influence in the community than your girlfriend. They "might" be able to make life difficult for her. $400 doesn't sound like an overly large amount to try and prevent further damage.

A smart thing to do would be to try and "remotely" monitor the situation (both of you) and try to figure out quietly what is really going on. If the family really is having some sort of difficulties, it might make a huge gesture to maybe bake a few cookies or maybe just offer to do something for them, should they ever need any help. No strings attached. Wish I could say I've used such wisdom in the past, but couldn't see through anger/hurt enough to figure it out when needed.

Hope the best for both of you.
 
I would still have a consultation with a lawer. They are free and you could even talk to several of them and see if their advice matches up . The reason I am giving you this advice is this crazy woman can rain down slander and deformation of character. It is something that is almost impossible to erase. A letter of decease and disist from a lawer should stop her in her tracks. Makes everything very official. That 400 sounds like nothing but official lawer paperwork can be your gold bullet. Don't screw around with this. She said she said ain't going to cut it. You must strike first. You guys are the peons and big bucks can walk over you. Talk to some lawers. Maybe get a judge to hang an injunction on her. Gag order. Your reputation is about the only thing you have. By the way was your lady friend bonded and insured? Is your farm covered by an LLC? If not you BETTER talk to a lawer. I have been involved with two pains in the rear problem and one cost over 3,500.oo lawers fees. Sorry to rattle your cage but do not let this slide.
 
Bryce go into modern and read all of the replys. I am very serious with what I told you. Yours, jeffcat.
 
I'd ignore the letter,the wife sounds like a typical nutty horse owner to me I'd never be surprised how crazy/stupid some of those folks can be.But if they wanted to take me to court go ahead, they wrote her the check so I don't
see where they'd have a case for anything and they have to realize they're not going to get anything out of your girlfriend anyway as she has no money.That's one good thing about being
poor and broke you don't have to give a rats behind if you get sued(LOL)
 
i would do anything nor would i worry about it. Ain't nothing they can do. But I'm sure the brain (legal advise) trust will disagree.
 
(quoted from post at 20:13:49 01/19/18) ... about 4 months, she had hurt her foot really bad, and missed 2 weeks of work. The Wife insisted, and I mean like forced, a pay check to her for both weeks, giving her the $200 she would have normally made.
Click to expand...

You didn't say whether she hurt her foot on the job. If she did, her employers' actions would be consistent with someone who isn't carrying worker's compensation insurance and isn't paying payroll taxes. The offered paycheck dissuades her from filing a W/C or disability claim which triggers a State investigation.

I wouldn't worry about the bill and wouldn't communicate with the employer. Force the employer to communicate with your girlfriend in writing if they wish to do so in the future.
 
Yes but it also tells this horse nut that they have taken steps to get a lawer on their case. As I said slander is something that spreads like wild fire. Hopefully a letter will make her realize it is better to shut up. Personal, peson to person as you said there is not a whole lot you can do but if a BUSINESS puts out a tid bit of slander on you, hoooo boy. Big time court case. Much easier to talk to a lawer. If he says to hand the money back, then so be it. But as I have seen with several people your reputation is the only thing you have. If she is branded as an untrustworthy care taker, Now Bryce has a case for slander because it will impact her ability to earn a living. Unfortunately a woman crying about something gets 98% of the attention. Right or wrong. Go see a lawer. I have been at the end of some stuff where. I didn't do a D,,,,,, thing but the other end was a crazy woman. Guess who they listen too. Don't mess around with this.
 
If she was hurt on the job they may have insisted she take the money as a payment for the injury and time lost, once you except money for doctor or injury you can no longer file a lawsuit for those injuries, around here anyway. Once the check was cashed they have proof she excepted compensation.
 
Worst that could happen is she takes your girlfriend to Small Claims Court where both can explain what happened.

I doubt the lady would win there, so as others said, just ignore her until that happens.
 
A few things to think about here.

Anybody can send out a bill to anybody else for any reason that they can make up. That does not necessarily make that bill valid or to carry the force of law.

What is the real reason for the bill? Was there conflict that you were not told about? Is there more to the story than you were told? Is this an attempt at bullying? Is the former employer being mean or vindictive?

Going to court is not the worst thing that could happen. Consider that if the former employer wants to go to court, it would be a civil court - not a criminal court. If everything that you have posted is accurate and correct, the former employer would have no case. Nothing to fear there.

My own gut feeling is to just leave it alone. Most likely nothing will come of it. It is up to the person that sent the bill to either escalate it or just let it go. In any case, I would let the girlfriend make the decision as to how to proceed. Sometimes, when you stick your neck out too far, you get your head chopped off.
 
JD Seller has it right in my opinion. I have mellowed also, in part from watching others handle situations and see the outcome. You have the opportunity to "mellow" now and learn to be comfortable with the decision. You are in a good place! Don't miss the opportunity.
 
That is something I forgot to ad, she DID get hurt on the job, tore two tendons in her foot. They were always cash under the table with her, and she knew that there was no insurance / etc. Girlfriend was completely fine with that. He own insurance covered the issue.

But yes, she was hurt on the job, and I personally felt like the $200 a week was "shut up" money.

What she finally told my girlfriend, was that she let her go because she wasn't reliable, which I can understand. She would take a week off, every 3 or 4 weeks, and at first, the employer couldn't care less, just as long as she had a couple weeks notice, because she worked from home as it was, so she just needed a helping hand here and there kinda deal.

I think she just decided she needed someone to show up every day, which is fine, girlfriend understood. But the way it was handled was very poorly.



For now, I am going to go with the lay low policy. Girlfriend really doesn't want me to do anything, and I did offer to pay it off, she won't hear of it. Until something further happens, I am just going to "listen". ;)
 
JD, she should keep all corespondence. That said If they do as you say then id that check is cashed then the girlfriend has proof that she paid the money back and then the nut case if she tries to do any slander it would be hader for them to do anything. But take firse action because if a nut case geat there first you are out of luck. I have had twice happen and the nut case wone both times. One when the nut case tried to force herself into a empty house I had the did not even have a stool in bathroom. Then was a tresspasser that I tried to run off and they thought they could push mt truck back into my lane and get into my wife. And they dammaged both my truck and their van that by not cetting the law on first I lost.
 
If your girlfriend is going to college she should see if the college has a free legal clinic at the school. My college has/had a legal clinic that was free to students and Alumni. I used it several times just for advice. All I would do is find out what your options are just in case the Wife wants to pursue getting her $400 back. The alternative is to have a consultation with a lawyer and pay for a 30 minute visit. I have done that also and it really helps to get some idea of what could happen. What ever you do don't mention a lawyer to a rich person, they can out lawyer you just for the fun of it.....

OTJ
 

Your girlfriend did not know how to gracefully accept the kindness and raised a fuss. And it sounds like the fuss went on multiple times. That has a consequence. It is likely why she was let go.

I know if I had an employee (or contractor, which is what I suspect your girlfriend was) that I tried to treat nicely and he/she did anything other than a simple "thank you" I would be irritated.

Write a check and hope she learns a life lesson about grace and interacting with people.
 
Ah, "the rest of the story".

She was getting paid "under the table". Her employers were breaking the law.

She was injured on the job, and wasn't covered under unemployment insurance. Once again, her employers were breaking the law.

Your girlfriend should write up a letter explaining what has happened, and send it to your state's agency responsible for regulating workman compensation insurance. I doubt her former employers will give her any more trouble about the two hundred bucks.
 
(quoted from post at 07:28:50 01/20/18) I forgot to ad, she DID get hurt on the job, tore two tendons in her foot. They were always cash under the table with her, and she knew that there was no insurance / etc. Girlfriend was completely fine with that. He own insurance covered the issue.)
Click to expand...

There you go. The employer is picking at something that's going to explode in their face. They had an obligation to report your girlfriend as an employee, pay payroll taxes and worker's comp. Paying her not to report her injury, and that is what this is, is worse than not paying comp. Failing to pay her on payroll will generate an audit and tax and penalty obligations if reported to the IRS and State. Your girlfriend's insurance company can go after the employer for reimbursement of the medicals they paid and there is a procedure which allows your girlfriend can treat the income she received as "net" payroll, meaning that if she'd been on payroll, her take home pay was $200 a week and she owes no income tax on the income she received.

So, like I said, no oral communication. Everything in writing and if the employer makes any more demands, send them a written communication (preferably text or email that makes it easy for them to respond) around February 15th asking when (not if) they are sending W-2s for 2017. I don't think you'll hear a peep out of them after that.
 
Ag related employment, it depends on how much she earned as to whether the employer broke any law, they probably did not if it was short term employment and its even tax deductible to them unless the horse operation is classified as hobby.
 
I agree with this proposal. They are intent on getting the money back because they may be having
difficult times themselves. It is neither your girlfriends fault or responsibility to repay the money.
Asking for the tax forms should quickly reverse their actions. The "sick leave" money would thin be
considered either a gift, or real pay. Either way they have no claim on it. I am not a lawyer, so this
is opinion only. Jim
 
Seems to me she was paid for her injury time. Time to make a grown up decision on how you want to proceed.
Wish you the best in your decision.


Vito
 
(quoted from post at 07:28:50 01/20/18) That is something I forgot to ad, she DID get hurt on the job, tore two tendons in her foot. They were always cash under the table with her, and she knew that there was no insurance / etc. Girlfriend was completely fine with that. He own insurance covered the issue.

But yes, she was hurt on the job, and I personally felt like the $200 a week was "shut up" money.

What she finally told my girlfriend, was that she let her go because she wasn't reliable, which I can understand. She would take a week off, every 3 or 4 weeks, and at first, the employer couldn't care less, just as long as she had a couple weeks notice, because she worked from home as it was, so she just needed a helping hand here and there kinda deal.

I think she just decided she needed someone to show up every day, which is fine, girlfriend understood. But the way it was handled was very poorly.



For now, I am going to go with the lay low policy. Girlfriend really doesn't want me to do anything, and I did offer to pay it off, she won't hear of it. Until something further happens, I am just going to "listen". ;)
Click to expand...

It seems to me you should listen to your girlfriend.
 
(quoted from post at 10:28:50 01/20/18)

Seems to me you ask a question and got many answers
-pay the money back, kinda like try to buy them off

Spent more money on a lawyer, kinda like throw enough money at it and it will go away

Or do as you have decided to do and see what happens first .May be nothing will happen.

I think you have made a good decision,



For now, I am going to go with the lay low policy. Girlfriend really doesn't want me to do anything, and I did offer to pay it off, she won't hear of it. Until something further happens, I am just going to "listen". ;)
Click to expand...
 
(quoted from post at 16:14:25 01/20/18) Below Chuck break-- genius --" where is my W2 form please" That will shut them right up !
Click to expand...

or just ask for their Federal Employer ID number because the 1040A filing form is asking for it in order to report all income for 2017.
 
If they were paying with checks that is not cash under the table.
Seems as if some puzzle piece might be missing ?
In no way shape or form would I EVER send them money back for what we hear here ! 400 this week if you pay it how much will they want next week ?

Send the lady JDsellers info so she can send him letters asking for money. LOL.
 
> Ag related employment, it depends on how much she earned as to whether the employer broke any law, they probably did not if it was short term employment and its even tax deductible to them unless the horse operation is classified as hobby.

Yes it is POSSIBLE they were operating within the law. They'll have the opportunity to explain that when they respond to the letter from the state inquiring about what appear to be flagrant violations of labor laws.

One has to wonder why the employer was so motivated to pay the $200 in the first place. The most reasonable explanation is they feared being reported to the state department of labor. Now that the young lady is healed up, they figure they dodged that bullet so now they want their money back.
 
Mike M I would bet that you have not had to hire a lawyer to defend yourself against unfounded claims/actions lately. To get any kind of a good lawyer your going to have to pay that lawyer way more than any $400 to get yourself represented by one.
 
IMHO - it depends on how much you want to wrestle or not.

Two easy buttons.

Return the money or lay low and wait until the fur flies - if it ever does.

No calls, all correspondence in writing. If laying low, do not make any contact, let the other party initiate all contact via written correspondence, Do not respond in any way unless summed for Court. Do not respond to lawyer threats. Do not answer phones, texts, etc. wipe these people from your radar as though you never heard of them. Document the gift as a gift.

If the fur starts flying, i.e. being sued, then ask for W2 or 1099 form. Document injury and let it be known medical and lost wage potential will be part of the suit. Let it be known that in good conscience, you?re going to show all income on your taxes, even if you have to amend prior years AND make known your willingness to cooperate with the IRS on a farm audit after you whistle blow.

My guess is they will go away - anyway. I?d advise hitting the lay low easy button and it will all probably blow over.

I feel your pain as my 90% of my hay goes to horse customers and a couple of them are nuts.

Now go out and trade one of those Farmalls for an Allis Chalmers WD45 tractor you?ve secretly always wanted. If necessary, launder the $200 gift into it as a city slicker judge would never believe anyone would spend $200 on 45 and you?re free and clear...🙂
 
Since there is not an edit button, one more thought.

I should think that worse case, you could get hauled in court and compelled to pay back the $200. IMHO, no need to lawyer up or spend any money. Let it run its course and if compelled by a court to pay, then your only out the $200 (can?t remember, $200 or $400). Let the horse nut lady spend 200 plus on her lawyers, etc taking you to court and you only spend whatever is owed - and then only if compelled by a judge. You can loose knowing the dingbat lady payed much more than $200 to get her way - LOL!
 
One more thing. She should of ignored the bill and not contacted the lady that fired her. Do not acknowledge any more stuff sent unless it is set registered mail and signed for.
 
I would sure like to know the other side of the story.


I've spent may hours in meetings with parties who said they seen or know all the facts.......well not so.
 
(quoted from post at 13:58:39 01/20/18) Worst that could happen is she takes your girlfriend to Small Claims Court where both can explain what happened.

I doubt the lady would win there, so as others said, just ignore her until that happens.
Click to expand...

They won't go to court and admit on public record that they were not paying for Workers' Compensation insurance on an employee. I hope your girl was paying taxes on her income or she's in as much trouble. Your girl could just say to them: I don't think you want to pursue this because of the lack of WC insurance. They would likely have to pay fines and penalties as well as premium for the current year at least. I'm betting their attorney (should they consult one) will advise them to drop it.

A lot of horse people are bat-crap crazy. Have run into many of them that also got into llama showing. Many folks that like to show got llamas to get away from horse show people. No way I'd ever work for a horse person on their farm.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Steve in VA
Just a green tractor
Replies
9
Views
835
560Dennis
560Dennis
zuhnc
Someone shot my cat
2 3 4
Replies
72
Views
3K
NY 986
N
D
  • Locked
Susan's Obituary
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
Richard G.
R
J
Christmas light parade
Replies
0
Views
183
John in Mich
J
super99
Lost my phone
2
Replies
29
Views
2K
wp6529
W
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top