(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

Progress in the world

R

rrlund

Well-known Member
I'm neutral on the whole solar electricity thing in the post below,like I said,I'd go with heating water with panels first,but I was just thinking about this bull headed resistance to change and technology last night. Maybe we need a whole new post that just asks what date folks would have stopped it. I'm sure nobody wants to go back to the days before the wheel was invented,but where would everybody have stopped and said "That's far enough. No more progress."?
 
probably early 70's, pre computer anything , no cell phones cars and trucks did the job but you could afford them if you worked for a living, pre china junk
 
It seems like the resistance is in this country, the rest of the world is moving ahead at lightning speed.

We have been a world leader, but will not continue if we try to move back.
 
I'm all for progress but society has cerntainly gone in the direction of being very self centered anti-social stressed and very dramatic these days since the widespread use of smart phones.I could go on and on but I won't.
 
People have always been challenged by change.

It's hard.

Once one gets used to it, something new comes along, to change things, and make it hard....

Perhaps the changes are coming more quickly now. Making change more frequent, and people feeling even more lost than past generations.

Paul
 
Solar while it may work some what but if it does work you need to have some sort of battery an they get expensive fast when you have to replace them. Now if they could figure out how to use them but not have a battery well that might work. Plus if you sell power back to the power company you have to have special insurance to do so etc.
 
In my younger years I listened to people who resisted change and thought "why?" I also thought change meant something would be "better." I'm over that now. I accept change, but now know it is just "change" and not necessarily better....
 
(quoted from post at 09:28:38 01/07/18) People have always been challenged by change.

It's hard.

Once one gets used to it, something new comes along, to change things, and make it hard....

Perhaps the changes are coming more quickly now. Making change more frequent, and people feeling even more lost than past generations.

Paul
Click to expand...

I think change is happening much faster now, its all about communication. I think older people feel like there moorings are lost, so many things they thought were rocks are now sand.
 
Progress is generally good. We have things to make life easier or more pleasant that came as a result of progress. Like indoor plumbing. How about central heating and air conditioning. A host of electrical appliances in the kitchen that make preparing a meal a simple thing that can be done in hours or minutes as compared to days. I'm all for that kind of progress.
I also like things like automobiles, automatic transmissions, electronic fuel injection, and disc brakes.
I do NOT like going overboard on electronic gizmos in cars that are a bit "too" convenient. Like all of those "clickers" that cars have to lock the doors and set the alarm. How far can you trust one of those things? Do you know that ALL of the locking system is in working order, and that ALL of the doors are locked? And, is it necessary to announce it to the world that you locked your car doors?
I like cell phones for what they were invented for - communication. The "smart" phones open the door to all kinds of abuses - the main one being texting while driving. Every time I stop at a traffic light, I see drivers near me with their phones texting away.
Under NO circumstances will I ever like or accept self driving vehicles. Once you eliminate the human factor, these things will become deadly menaces. Things that we accept on a daily basis like courtesy will not be understood by machines.

Not all progress goes in the right direction. Some of it is downright dangerous.
 
I think the solar panel "worth" thing is more related to one's location. When I lived in CT I had a friend and his father who were very satisfied with solar electric. When I moved to MI I asked a friend who lived here how the "solar" situation was and he said (and was right) that there were too many cloudy days, when you needed it the most, to be useful. What we do have an abundance of is wind for wind power.
As far as technology goes; I don't know what I did before the Internet. Seems like it was the stone age. Any time I want to know something, or how to do something, it is usually a few clicks away. I like building or repairing things and when I need a component (that I don't know if even exists) I type in a description and "voila" someone somewhere already makes it. I.E. have viewed "how to" videos and successfully made complex computer repairs on my own stuff saving me a fortune. It is the available knowledge that I think is priceless (it goes without saying that you have to "sort" through it). A perfect example is this group, when one wants to know how to fix their tractor.
 
I have a battery charger that is solar powered on one of those speed signs the cops use it'll charge a battery up good in about 12-24 hrs also have jumpers and use it
as a battery maintainer.The solar thing is a great idea just needs better technology which I'm sure will come a long.
 
I'm not a "prepper", but was raised to prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. That said, I think it's a bad thing when we lose older knowledge and skills. Mankind lasted for thousands of years without modern technology. Problem is, if there [i:0b96e7c1c2]were [/i:0b96e7c1c2]some cataclysmic event nowdays, how long would mankind last then??

The other problem I see with such rapidly advancing technology is that the vast majority of the time, it's being pushed by purely monetary reasons, without regard to any consequences that may come about. I'm sure the inventors of cellular phones did not intend for people to talk while driving. Then as mentioned before, newer technology comes about and then texting becomes the bad "in-thing". Now you have people driving while watching videos, sporting events, soap operas or other on their smart phones.

I don't have a problem with advancing technology, so long as people are (for the most part) responsible enough to not abuse it.
 
I'm just not so sure that a lot of change now is actually good change. Just so much of the 'progress' is anti-christian. It goes against everything the bible stands for. I'm not against smart phones and computers, but I don't like where it's all leading. If change isn't evil, I'm not typically against it. I never liked CFL bulbs, because they suck. My only resistance to LED bulbs is that it was forced, legislated change.
-
I'm very skeptical of global warming, uh, sorry, climate change, because #1, there isn't enough evidence that we humans are behind it. There's evidence of average global temperatures rising, but what isn't clear is why. I tend to believe it's more to do with cycles than us changing the climate, which we have very little data on. We have data going back 150 years, which with the 4.5 billion years old they believe the earth to be is NOTHING Which brings us to reason #2. For something that is supposed to be all about saving the earth for the long term, there is a suspicious amount of money being made.
 
Only reason why we were the world leader to the other countries is they had their hand in our pocket using our money. Once that was cut off we were no longer the leader
 
Yep now days if one where to loose power cell phone etc. most would be lost and if it was out for say 6 months many would probably die since they would have no idea how to get by with out
 
Not up to us old farts to stop. It?s up to our kids and grandkids. And they will never stop. Hope you haven?t forgot how old fashion your grandpa was.........but didn?t stop you.
 
No idea where progress is headed, but if we don't start putting a much heavier spring under that "EASY" button we're all going to be fat and lazy when we get there.
 
Just something to ponder,not being confrontational. Do you think maybe WW2 had something to do with the rest of the world being set back in the field of technology? We leveled all of Europe and Japan,then it was our science,technology and factories that rebuilt them. The rebuilding is complete,they're back.
 
Old, (BTW, my insurance didn't go up a lot), we got solar and expect to come out on it in 10 years. That isn't exactly a great boon in our income or anything. What it is, to us, is a step in the direction we believe American society should go, energy-wise. I'm not saying we feel everyone ought to run out and get solar panels planted in their yard or on their roof. What we did is try to be a good example and support the search for a more efficient way to fuel our way thru life. I think we're stinking things up in a lot of ways with fossil fuels; not that using FF was avoidable, but WE believe we owe it to our descendants, when our "lease" is up, to leave their home in as good of a shape as we found it. A concrete example for the necessity of constant progress, to me anyway, would be my experience with tractor pulling back in the infancy of the sport. Without going into boring detail, anyone that was involved in that sport with any success, or racing, or farming, or any other competitive enterprise knows very well that without constant tinkering and progressive change you get left at the back of the herd; you know, where you breath the most dust and wade through the most "pie." gm
 
Do you think maybe at some point,we all have to just learn to use the technology that applies to our lives and not try to create problems to justify having or using something?

I have a flip phone but not a smart phone for example. It's nice to be able to call for help if I need it,but I don't need to carry the internet with me.

I don't need GPS. I don't travel that much,and when I do,I can read a map or print one out online before I go.

I don't need radar or auto steer on my tractors. My fields aren't that big. I'm sure it's great though for those who do have a real place for it in their operation.

I bought my first computer in 1991 to keep my farm account records on because I absolutely hate bookwork.

I tried rBST in my dairy herd when it first came out,to see if it would work for me. It didn't.

I plant GMO crops because they make farming a walk in the park.

It's just a matter of taking advantage of technology that fits a need and passing on things that don't. At some point everybody will have to realize that,or go broke trying to keep up with the Joneses. A term that didn't just come along with recent technology by the way.
 
I would have stopped progress around 1962. I don't think we are going to have to worry much about solar power becoming a huge thing in the future with the way the military keeps spraying those chemicals in the sky and keeping it overcast and cloudy almost every day.
 
That could be part of it but if you look at where many of the things being made in other countries were developed here in the state and then sold to or solen by these countries. Another thing that is a big drain on us is why should we pay for most of the military protection in Europe when there ecomny is doing so well. Our military budget for Germany is almost double of what theres is to protect their country. When I was in Germany in 2011 I never saw so many new factories from the ground up being built as I did there. They have been more energy efficent for years way aead of us with I think should have been started here years before we did. They have mmany towns that run 100 % with windmills. Many are small about the size of Evart but it all helps. The car we had got almost 40 miles to a gallon. In 1972 I had one shipped home from there and it go in the upper 30's per gallon
 
I see no reason to try to stop technological progress even if such was possible.

Dean
 
Thinking about things like GPS and cell phones these are high maintenance items along with many others things which is fine as long as everything goes smoothly but small glitches in something
like the electrical power grid can cause big problems.That's why I have things like a wood stove and a water line coming from a spring if the power grid say did go down for several
months it wouldn't be fun but I could get a long pretty well.I would hate to be in a position to depend on the outside world for everything I need every day,like food,heat,water,cooling
just the basics of life.The more sophiscated technology becomes it appears to be easier for it all to collapse. Sort of like my dad used to tell us when we'd be doing something like hauling hay,You might not have to work hard for a living when you're older but if the time comes you need to you'll know how to do it.
 
Technology is great as long as it is used for peaceful purposes.Kinda scary the number of nukes that are locked and loaded.God help us if their ever used again.
Paul
 
Ya sort of like the Movie Wall-e where earth has been used up so they go to space and there all a bunch of fat people that cannot do much of any thing for them self's. Like self parking cars now days. I wonder it one goes to take a driving test with a car that can back up for it self if they would let the person push that button?? Or use a self driving car to take your test in. And for that matter who is libel in a self driving car if it get into a wreck
 
Ya,I've wondered about the military thing too,but if we keep on that,things will get political in a hurry.

As for a lot of technology originating here,could that be a hold over from the war too? We did bring Europe's best here to help us win the war. A great deal of consumer technology had its origins in the military and in our space program. There was a lot of technology there for other countries to "steal",but how much longer will we hold on to our edge? It's not like our education system is number one in the world.
 
I agree there on the ed part. What I think we are losing the most of is common sense and the know how to do for yourself. I think we grew up in about the same time frame and when I was in school we were taught howto do hands on stuff. FFA they would bring equit in the shop and let us work on it. They would do a lot of safety instruction on different equitment. They don't do that anymore. I went to school with my son's ag teacher. I was talking to hime one day and he said they are niot allowed to teach that anymore. He use to pick on my son about me and things we did. I told muy son to ask him what happens when you stand on the wheel of a JD B tractor and relieve yourself with a breeze blowing back on the tractor and it so happens the sparkplug wire did not have a rubber cap on it. But in some of the other countries the kids are able to chose the path they want to go on and one of them is all hands on. One of my friends in Germany told me last summer his daughter just finished her internship with a local bank and that is where she will work. This internship was done in the last 2 years of her high school
 
Danged tractors of yesterday anyway. They aren't nearly as efficient or non-polluting as current or future possibly even solar tractors. Maybe there should have been a cash for yesterdays clunker tractors too. Well, around my place it doesn't take a village and that works just fine with me. Grin.

Mark
 
(quoted from post at 11:25:53 01/07/18) I agree there on the ed part. What I think we are losing the most of is common sense and the know how to do for yourself. I think we grew up in about the same time frame and when I was in school we were taught howto do hands on stuff. FFA they would bring equit in the shop and let us work on it. They would do a lot of safety instruction on different equitment. They don't do that anymore. I went to school with my son's ag teacher. I was talking to hime one day and he said they are niot allowed to teach that anymore. He use to pick on my son about me and things we did. I told muy son to ask him what happens when you stand on the wheel of a JD B tractor and relieve yourself with a breeze blowing back on the tractor and it so happens the sparkplug wire did not have a rubber cap on it. But in some of the other countries the kids are able to chose the path they want to go on and one of them is all hands on. One of my friends in Germany told me last summer his daughter just finished her internship with a local bank and that is where she will work. This internship was done in the last 2 years of her high school
Click to expand...

There are some internships here, but not many. Most companies don't want to train anybody. Or pay for it.
 
What you said about selling power back to the grid. A lot of companies will only pay you WHOLESALE price and not normal billing price. Now if you want to look at a real mess look what happened in Florida. It is ILLEGAL to power your own house with your solar pannels. All of that mess down there after the hurricane and you cant use your own pannels. The power company lobby and crooked political bums. If anyone has anymore information on this please chime in. I down loaded two different sides of the story. If you have your system set up Correctly you are fine.. Kinda. Both of these stories give you 5he feeling 5hat the power company can just walk in and fine your rear end off.
more for 5he home owner.
 
Yes, there must be plenty of discoveries ahead to solve energy problems. A huge payoff for free energy is waiting for us when they figure out how to capture ocean wave action or ocean tides.
 
Randy I am not against progress. Man has been progressing since we built the first fire in a cave. I am against the government trying to pick winners and losers. It is even worse when it is based on "feelings" rather than GOOD science. If you disagree with some modern clan PC view then your dismissed as an idiot. There is little to zero pier review anymore on many of the theories that the government uses to club us into submission to the PC view.

The climate change debate is a good example of this. Who knows if it is happening or not. All the science on both sides is gamed so much it is all worthless. So we are left with "FEELINGS' running the debate. Then these "FEELINGS" are the driving force in our laws and subsidies. The end result is rarely looked at anymore. It is more important to "feel good" about it over anything actually having positive results.

Recycling is the same way. The total cost to make new aluminum cans is way less than the cost to handle the returned ones. This is including energy and materials. Paper and card board are even worse. But we are expanding recycling.

Incinerating the garbage really has the best chance of working but since it is "dirty" we do not spend any money on trying to make it a clean efficient process. So we continue an terrible recycle program while burying mountains of garbage that will be around for centuries. This "feels" better so that is what we get.

We are heading down a slippery slope and the majority of the riders in the sled do not even think or see the wall ahead. It all is feeling good, great times.
 
Not disagreeing with you totally,but just to play the devils advocate,wasn't rural electrification an FDR New Deal program? Was that a bad thing? Can't we trace a great deal of "modern technology" to the race to the moon in the 60s? All things that were funded by taxpayers.

I've argued before that all this alternative energy thing might not be necessary if not for rural electrification. We were well on our way to electrification though individual wind generators when the REA came in. Where would private innovation have taken battery and generator technology if the government hadn't meddled? All just hypotheticals now,but sure,something to ponder.
 
Through the 60s the govt paid farmers some to help put in tile.

Now the govt pays some for CRP and to bust tile and recreate wetlands.

One step forward, two steps back.

A person's head starts to spin sometimes.....

Paul
 
Ya,again,I don't want to send this off down the path of no return by running the risk of making things political. God knows that's just WAY too easy,but our problem is,we're up against a unified Europe who's only goal is to move forward while we're still fighting yesterdays battles.
 
Randy I am not sure where the line needs to be drawn. I just know that what we are doing now is not sustainable.

Your example of the how there are unintended consequences to every act just makes the stakes even higher.

Truthfully I think much of this all comes back to how everything these days is HUGE in size. Just about any endeavor takes more money than a family or individual would usually have. This has lead to monopolies being formed that are not regulated well enough in my eyes. Then these monopolies can influence the government with money to keep doing more of the same. It has became a vicious cycle.

I am for free enterprise/capitalism but I am also realize that this pushes businesses towards becoming monopolies. This is where there needs to be rules/laws to break them up so they can reform another generation of companies/ideas. The business concentration is far more of a danger than energy or EPA rules. Examples would be a few companies owning the majority of the genetic lines of seeds and chemicals or Walmart selling close to 50% of the total groceries in this country. That is not good.

I am too old and not smart enough to know the answers or even the questions on many things. I just know we are heading for a train wreck and it is not going to be good for any of the average people in this country. We are not "too big to fail". We are screwed.
 
Sorry but I can not wait to see what they come up with next. I am alive and active because of the increased knowledge and technology in health care.
 
What and how the government did things years ago are not even close to what and how they do it now. Years ago the government yes did things but most also had common sense but now days most in government have no common sense let alone the people they are suppose to serve in mind when the do things.

Like the thing with illegal immigrants the moment they step foot in the U.S.A. they have committed a crime and many in the government say it is ok for them to be here so those who say that are aiding and abiding them in committing a crime so they all should be charged with crimes as in the immigrant and the ones who say there ok to be here
 
Agreed. Yet we just keep fighting the same tired battles among ourselves while the rest of the world begins to ignore us and passes us by.
 
Can we leave the politics out of this and just not go there for a change? You know it'll flush this whole post right down the toilet on a matter of minutes if we do.
 
Randy, I used to believe just that. I encourage you to read, "The Birth of Plenty," by a guy named Wm. Bernstein. I got a used, (all the words were still there), copy off ebay for 4 bucks. After reading you for a few years I think you'd appreciate the book. gm
 
Dang,and I thought if the Corp of Engineers would just fill in Lake Michigan it would take care of our lake effect cloud problems. LOL
 
Great song, hadn't heard it in awhile. There was a great comment below the video- guy said he lost his '51 DeSoto at Woodstock- couldn't remember where he parked it. Thumbed his way back to California, a year later he was in Vietnam.
 
(quoted from post at 12:40:47 01/07/18) This video shows how some more sneaky stuff is going on.
more grass root
Click to expand...
Look at cable television 35 years ago. No commercials huh, only programming? Yeah right, now you pay $75/month for basic cable with 15 minutes of view time / 15 minutes of commercials and they're making $$$ off the advertising !! -- thank you FCC gubmint agency.
 
Ya,I'd have to read the book before I could discuss it any farther. I just know that Sweden was neutral during the war and wasn't bombed. They were in the same situation as the US after the war. They didn't have to be rebuilt. They were up and running and thrived the same as we did and they still are.
 
(quoted from post at 12:46:32 01/07/18) Agreed. Yet we just keep fighting the same tired battles among ourselves while the rest of the world begins to ignore us and passes us by.
Click to expand...

Yup. I keep hearing, "my daddy " didn't need it, so I don't. The 1950's aren't ever coming back.
 
Ya,there are plenty of things we don't "need",but at some point,it becomes downright inconvenient to buck the trend and do without.
 
I read through all the replies below and I can sum up my thoughts with these statements.
Change to make things better can be good, change for the sake of change- not necessarily so.
All our technological gizmos and devices can be nice-- as long as they work.
 
Old

"What and how the government did things years ago are not even close to what and how they do it now. Years ago the government yes did things but most also had common sense but now days most in government have no common sense let alone the people they are suppose to serve in mind when the do things. "

And back then government people were much more likely to have real background and knowledge of what was involved which helped their common sense.
 
When I posted something a week ago today that I thought we could have a little fun with on a cold Sunday afternoon,within about two minutes somebody made it political and turned the whole post in to a flaming pile of dog crap. Thanks in advance if you do the same thing to this one.
 
I knew a guy who was dead serious about the weather going bad, and caused by, every time the space shuttle went up.
 
I'm not going to what I'm thinking right now Rich. You wanna go? Bring it. If not,drop the political chit now.
 
I am all for progress.
I love my central air system and indoor plumbing.
I love the fact that my truck goes 100k miles between tune ups.

Where I draw the line is when the government gets involved in progress.
Not so much the government making a rule that we should find a new energy source.
But for the government putting tax dollars into the research.

I think the word subsidized and grant should be removed from the English language.
 
That is exactly what I said people back then had common sense people now days do not have common sense go back and read what I said not what you think I said. First paragraph addressed the common sense thing
 
FDR was president how much closer to politics can you go drop it and I will and no I will not see a post if you answer it because I am dropping it
 
Rural electrification would have happened whether or not FDR threw tax payer dollars at it.

That said, I appreciate the theme of your second paragraph immediately above (classic only).

You might find Isaac Azimov's SF book The End of Eternity interesting.

Dean
 
"Where I draw the line is when the government gets involved in progress."

Bingo, John.

10,000 years of human history has demonstrated that government is (to date, at least) the least effective entity to pick winners and losers.

Dean
 
yeh but I find that the quote ( how would a farmer fix it) tends to work best then over thinking a modern solution 😎
 
Randy,

Smart phones work well for us people that don?t have the privilege of working just outside our front door. I agree with the map usage but GPS is a lot easier than trying to get a exact driving time. Not 100% convinced they always send you the best way.

JMHO

Vito
 
Why should the power company pay YOU their normal billing price? How will they pay their infrastructure cost to distribute your electricity? Do you think infrastructure is free? The MN legislature forced that on electric companies. Most private generators are in rural MN, so it is forced on the REA"s.
 
Ya,like I said,use the technology that works for you,not for me or because somebody else uses it. Spook and I have had this conversation. I don't carry a cell phone unless I'm going to be out in the field or on the road where it's too far to walk home. Spook's wife runs a small business that's based mostly on people making appointments. With a cell phone,she doesn't have to be in the shop all the time. Customers can call here anywhere she is and she can meet them at the shop when necessary. It works great for her. I just don't have any need for it myself,doesn't mean that she doesn't.

That's where there really isn't any bad technology,just misuse of it.
 
I agree, especially with the misuse of technology. Some days I wish I didn?t have to drive to work.

Vito
 
I'm probably a young fart as far as this group. Technology has a plus side and a minus side. Being on the cutting edge is not always a good place to be. Look at some of the vehicles like the Edsel, or the B-58 bomber. Cutting edge tech, but so many glitches that they failed.
Solar, when it first was developed, had a lot of problems. The silicon crystal batter used to make them is a ecological nightmare. Germany, where it was advanced, mandated recycling the silicon waste. Good conservation, but also expensive. The company moved operations to China. Good move!!! NOT! While China can churn the stuff out faster and cheaper, they do it at the expense of their environment. They dump the waste in fields and rice paddies. Read several stories about that some years back.
I hate smart phones. I used a Quantico flip for nearly ten years. Great phone. No internet, calls and texts were all I need. I had a friend who regularly broke his smart phone. I cannot count the number of times he cracked the screen. I now have a smart phone and hate it more than I did when I was using the Quantico. They combine a lot of functions into one device. They don't do it well. Yes, its nice having GPS on the phone. Yes, its nice having internet. It would be great if it had the reception and sound quality of that Quantico.
 

World leader or not, the USA can not make the sun shine at night. Nor can the USA make the wind blow steady. The USA can not break the laws of physics and achieve economical utility grid energy storage.
There are all kinds of non engineers , politicians , well meaning people and renewable energy firms .That will tell you that renewable is cheaper, cleaner and more reliable than nuclear/hydraulic base load with hydraulic/fossil/solar peaking.
I suggest the pro renewable crowd to ask a non biased engineer and an accountant what is possible and practical.
Anyone aware of the cost of electricity in Ontario, Norway and Germany ?
 
The reality is we only change sources of energy when we have to. Nobody mined coal in Europe until the forests were decimated. Steam locomotives died out because diesels were cheaper to operate.

The cost of renewable energy is falling every year. The day it becomes cheaper to generate a kilowatt of power with solar than with natural gas, we will see a sudden paradigm shift. Until that day, coal and natural gas will dominate power generation. "Progress" is not so much a matter of technology as it is economics. James Watt's steam engine ushered in the industrial revolution not because it was radically new technology (it wasn't) but because it changed the economics of power production. Thomas Newcomen invented the first practical steam engine, not Watt. But Watt's design was much more efficient and history remembers Watt, not Newcomen.
 
Just to put in my dumb two cents! LOL I believe the world would have been better off if every family had an acre or two or three, they worked together to have food to feed themselves. Seems the world would have been better off, better? IDK! Might not have so many worthless people in the world that way, if they had to work to eat!
 
(quoted from post at 21:59:44 01/07/18) Just to put in my dumb two cents! LOL I believe the world would have been better off if every family had an acre or two or three, they worked together to have food to feed themselves. Seems the world would have been better off, better? IDK! Might not have so many worthless people in the world that way, if they had to work to eat!
Click to expand...

In a perfect world, yes. However, there are workers, there are dreamers, there are moochers and there are scammers. There are folks who are aggressive and fight to get ahead, and others who simply ride their coattails. Some can cook, some are mechanical, some know about hunting/fishing, some know how to manage, and some know about growing things.

Dumb? No. It's a great idea; just not practical.
 
What is the source of your info, JD? Everything I've always read says that metal and paper products are the two types of material where the efficiency of recycling makes the practice a no-brainer. Getting raw steel, aluminum, or copper from recycled material takes a very small fraction of the energy required to get it from ore. It is with stuff like plastic and glass where the overall benefits of recycling are questionable once everything is factored in.
 
I?ve had a smart phone for years and never broke a screen. I?d say owner negligence.
 
He asked a question that could never happen and I gave my input that could never happen! Maybe I am one of those dreamers! LOL
 
(quoted from post at 15:50:07 01/07/18) Yes, there must be plenty of discoveries ahead to solve energy problems. A huge payoff for free energy is waiting for us when they figure out how to capture ocean wave action or ocean tides.
Click to expand...

Tidal generators have been around since before we had a power grid. The problem is that coast lines are high $$$ properties and people don't want the view "spoiled" with the infrastructure associated with tidal generators. And, like wind and solar, they only provide part time power.
 
(quoted from post at 16:13:43 01/07/18) Not disagreeing with you totally,but just to play the devils advocate,wasn't rural electrification an FDR New Deal program? Was that a bad thing? Can't we trace a great deal of "modern technology" to the race to the moon in the 60s? All things that were funded by taxpayers.

I've argued before that all this alternative energy thing might not be necessary if not for rural electrification. We were well on our way to electrification though individual wind generators when the REA came in. Where would private innovation have taken battery and generator technology if the government hadn't meddled? All just hypotheticals now,but sure,something to ponder.
Click to expand...

REA is one of those areas where the victor gets to write the history and gloss over the harm done to private co's and investors. Same thing in a lot of areas where gov't can use their relatively bottomless bank account to do things private enterprise would either take longer to do or run into blockages established by the same gov't that competes with them. Most people never consider this at all.
 

I don't have a problem with progress itself. Look at medicine or food production or our tools. Progress is not all bad. My issue is with progress that doesn't consider the harm it can do. We didn't have texting while driving deaths before cell phones. We didn't have predators stalking our kids via smart phones either. What gets me is when you discuss things like that and the people responsible for inventing and running the companies say they "can't" police their invention. I read that as, say for instance Zuckerberg, deciding it would cost him too much money. That I have an issue with.
 
I think progress should have been stopped before Novocain was discovered.

Or before antibiotics.

Maybe before aspirin would have been a good time.

My desire to be a pioneer in the old west has always been tempered by dental pain.
 
I?ve had a smart phone for years and never broke a screen. I?d say owner negligence.
 
Thanks guys. I appreciate most of you keeping on topic and keeping it civil. See how nice it is to have a discussion without running it off the rails?
 
Stopping progress? Why? One guy here said he'd stop with vehicles in the 70's??? Wow. Crap Bias ply tires, Crap drum brakes, Crap reliability, Crap fuel economy, Crap safety standards... Why would ANYONE want a 70's vehicle that was shot at 75k miles over ANY vehicle of today is just broken in at 150k miles??? Do I want my 1971 Ford F100 back? Heck yeah! Not for a daily driver, not for pulling trailers, but for a toy.

I say smart progress all the time. Most failures in advancement are due to dumb people demanding dumb things, like cheap junk over quality stuff. I'd much rather pay $2500 for a quality serviceable TV than $700 for a Chinese-made junk TV, but I'm in the minority versus most people. They want something they can throw away after a couple years when some new features come out. If everyone stayed outta Wal-mart and off Amzon, we'd likely have much better, longer lasting stuff.


I think alot of the opinion on when to stop comes from most people being over 70 years old on here. Dagnamit! Get off my lawn! Most here are an incalculable value when it comes to advice on many things, but where to stop in the advancement of technology isn't one of those things.
 

If we stopped shopping at Walmart and similar places, there'd be no where to shop! I guess some people love going to the Mom and Pop and paying $50.00 for the same junk Walmart get's $17.50 for. That's why Walmart exists. Before that it was KMart and before that it was Sears and Wards and Western Auto and people were saying, "Don't shop there! Go to your local Mom and Pop!"

Same story, different names.
 
Yep,I remember my cousin telling about going to the depot to pick up his new bicycle when it came in on the train. He probably could have gotten one at the hardware store.
 
(quoted from post at 05:56:25 01/09/18)
If we stopped shopping at Walmart and similar places, there'd be no where to shop! I guess some people love going to the Mom and Pop and paying $50.00 for the same junk Walmart get's $17.50 for. That's why Walmart exists. Before that it was KMart and before that it was Sears and Wards and Western Auto and people were saying, "Don't shop there! Go to your local Mom and Pop!"

Same story, different names.
Click to expand...

When the interstate I96 came thru in the early 60’s, the local merchants didn’t want any access to the expressway, they felt that their customers would shop elsewhere. They were right. A local rental shop was crazy high on renting equipment and tools. I used to go to shops in Detroit, where I worked, I could pay for a extra couple days for the same money. After Home Depot opened up, they faded away. I had a price sheet from both places, and Home Depot was less than half price.
 
(quoted from post at 20:02:23 01/09/18)
(quoted from post at 05:56:25 01/09/18)
If we stopped shopping at Walmart and similar places, there'd be no where to shop! I guess some people love going to the Mom and Pop and paying $50.00 for the same junk Walmart get's $17.50 for. That's why Walmart exists. Before that it was KMart and before that it was Sears and Wards and Western Auto and people were saying, "Don't shop there! Go to your local Mom and Pop!"

Same story, different names.
Click to expand...

When the interstate I96 came thru in the early 60’s, the local merchants didn’t want any access to the expressway, they felt that their customers would shop elsewhere. They were right. A local rental shop was crazy high on renting equipment and tools. I used to go to shops in Detroit, where I worked, I could pay for a extra couple days for the same money. After Home Depot opened up, they faded away. I had a price sheet from both places, and Home Depot was less than half price.
Click to expand...

A-yup! We had a very nice, large hardware near us that got into sporting goods and upscale clothing. Prices started climbing and selection in hardware decreased. The final straw for me was after Lowes came to town and I needed a 4 foot long 3/4 galvanized section of pipe. I had been resisting Lowes out of misplaced loyalty to the old place. Went to the old place and they wanted something north of $18.00 for the pipe. Couldn't handle that and drove a mile to Lowes and got the same thing for about $6.00. The old place finally went under after the CEO decided they needed to become a chain store. Sad to see it go, but shooting yourself in the foot never ends well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Newest mental-patient to join the Ford 9N restorer community
Replies
17
Views
2K
BigBry
B
R
The Swedes are here
2
Replies
28
Views
4K
Anonymous-0
A
P
Got Lucky!
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
Paul in MN
P
S
NC or Bust - Iowa - Part 2
Replies
6
Views
1K
Don Rudolph
D
N
In RE to the replies to my electrical question post
Replies
9
Views
2K
ih_bug
I
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top