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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Saveing the world.

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Brent Zappe

01-03-2018 07:00:29




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Brent's fun facts here for this day. they claim drive a battery car will save the world. What happens when the battery goes dead? Well you have to charge it up okay I understand. I thought this ideal was back in the 1920 to the 1930. Okay they claim the batteries are better than back in those years. let me ask what is the high level of the battery gases coming out when the battery is in charge. They say the battery is sealed than how do the gasses escape when the battery is charging. Is this really going to save the world? I get it is just like that cad converter which they said would clean this world back in 1976. Want to save the world well lets all go back to the Horse and buggy. E.P.A they just do not understand.

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Louis A

01-04-2018 08:44:43




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

They tend to be overly entitled? You're full of it! You act like they go around all the time asking for things for free and if they are getting what you call a "FREE" charge here and there, you are not the one paying for it! What's it any of your business if a business wants to give someone a free charge for shopping at their store as an incentive? Do you pay their electric bill? I don't think so! Not everyone who owns an EV got anything paid for by anyone! You don't seem to understand that one either! You know nothing about EV drivers, OBVIOUSLY!

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buickanddeere

01-04-2018 08:29:36




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
The low hanging fruit was picked a long time ago with batteries . There are a few percent here and there if much higher cost , shorter service life and a tendency to burst into flames is acceptable . There is not 25% more energy density in lithium batteries let alone 200% and 300% more as some non technical greenies like to fantasize about .



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buickanddeere

01-04-2018 08:26:21




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
Chernoby, Fukushima and three mile island were all over rated regarding danger .
Anyone aware that there are two Japanese cities built on top of ground zero of armonic bomb blasts . Incidentally the cancer rate in both cities is below the national average .



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kansasredneck

01-04-2018 07:08:06




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
When you really think about it, with the exception of nuclear energy, all other forms are solar. The difference is the means of extraction and storage. Wind is caused by uneven heating and cooling of the earths surface due to impairment of the sun. Fossil fuels are long term storage, they were created by the sun in that plants absorbed solar radiation longer ago, then were consumed by animals. Some of that plant material along with the animals perished and became encased in the earth's crust a few thousand years ago. I wonder how ell a battery would fare if stored for six thousand years. Probably would be as big a pollution mess as coal.
I suppose we could harvest waste crops, dead branches, lawn clippings, and burn them to produce electricity, but would they be as reliable as coal?
What about safety? Are the dangers from coal pollution as great as from nuclear? Consider a few more Chernobyl, or Fukushima disasters.
In the end, it is all in the hands of the GOD who created us. May he bless each of you today as always. Have a great day.

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Brent Zappe

01-03-2018 19:04:48




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
Please forgive me I was talking to friend this morning and I just had got on this subject. I really respect my friend he is a truck driver. Poor guy just trying to make a living. thank you for every body replies it made me laugh.



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Stephen Newell

01-03-2018 18:58:42




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
Oh, they understand. Job #1 is to wreck the country and send jobs overseas. They are doing a very good job aren't they.



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steve19438

01-04-2018 03:57:28




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Stephen Newell, 01-03-2018 18:58:42  
who is "they"?



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Dean

01-04-2018 04:22:19




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to steve19438, 01-04-2018 03:57:28  
The federales are "they."

Dean



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Bob

01-03-2018 17:50:18




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Oh, WOW, sorry that's so tough on you!

Gotta wonder, though, where you're here on a "yesterdays tractors" Forum, gosh the exhaust from one of those would probably send you to the ER!



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John in La

01-03-2018 17:49:03




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  

.



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Andy Martin

01-03-2018 17:40:29




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
I've been complaining about the lack of road tax on EV for years, and it's finally a large enough issue they are going to have to start paying up.

Expect to see parking meters in big cities with electricity available to charge your car with while parked.



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Andy Martin

01-03-2018 17:37:04




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
I'm not a tree hugger, by any means, but it is true you can even clean up coal emissions and sequester all the carbon at a power plant. It's much harder to clean up every car running around town. As battery charge times drop, and battery life is extended, you can expect to see electric vehicles less expensive to build than internal combustion. Battery design is accelerating just like computer chips did for many years. I fully expect to see many electric only city centers, as well as HOV lanes for self driving electrics only so they can tailgate at 70 mph after their computers link up. Toshiba recently announced they are working on a 300 mile range battery which will recharge in ten minutes.

And Tesla is selling lots of trucks they haven't started building yet. You can imagine self driving electric trucks going from terminal to terminal, being unloaded and reloaded by robot forklifts, time of day no object, with a few human maintenance personnel on duty 24 hours to keep the equipment running. Then human local drivers get loaded for local delivery by the same robots. A design like this reduces the number of truck drivers required.

I'll keep farming with my IH M's but change is coming, like it or not. I'm even a little concerned it will get hard to find gasoline in my lifetime. We used to be able to buy kerosene at the pump for less than the price of gasoline. Now it's by the gallon or five gallon container at sky high prices.

But the current generation of entrepreneurs and engineers, even though it includes lots of Millennials, is making technical progress faster than we've seen previously. I'm enjoying the show.

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buickanddeere

01-03-2018 17:07:34




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

EV drivers do tend to be overly entitled and expect to be treated like royalty for their personally saving the plant from Climate Change.
In conversation with EV drivers
, they use the word " free" a lot. If asked who pays for "free" the EV drivers become defensive and annoyed. When asked how can they live with themselves with the tax payer paying $14,000 worth of their EV. They say that they paid the tax and are just collecting it back. Or it starts a rant about the so called subsidies that fossil receives. EV drivers don't want to talk about how many billions of fees, licenses, royalties and taxes that fossil pays into government coffers every year.

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Gambles

01-03-2018 16:16:44




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
I feel that electric cars CAN (at the present time) work great in the city. Outside of the city? There are just no charging stations available YET.
Now if you want to have a few hours of good reading, brush up on how lithium is mined, what countries have lithium and exactly what mining lithium does to the environment.



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DoubleO7

01-03-2018 14:56:55




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
I can be driving in town behind a gas vehicle and know by the stench of raw gasoline if it is pre 1976 vehicle.

Some are worse then others of course but some just make you gasp for some good air.



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MarkB_MI

01-03-2018 14:48:07




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
Better get used to it. Several European car makers have announced they'll phase out internal combustion vehicles in the next decade, switching to hybrid and/or 100 percent electric vehicles. Certainly US car makers won't get on the band wagon until they have to, but eventually they will.

The question is not whether or not electric vehicles pollute. They do. The question is which vehicles have the smaller environmental footprint: internal combustion or electric? If you can effectively recycle the batteries and generate power from renewable sources, electric vehicles have a smaller footprint. Even if we can't generate all of our power from renewable sources, economic forces are pushing out the dirtiest source of electricity, coal.

Rather than recycle lithium batteries, Elon Musk has proposed to re-purpose used EV batteries by using them to store solar energy. The used batteries are good enough for this purpose, it postpones the need to recycle the batteries, and it solves the need for low-cost solar energy storage.

Don't knock catalytic converters. Without this technology (or something similar), we would have been faced with an difficult choice: Continue to pollute our cities until they're unlivable, or switch to electric vehicles back when the technology was in its infancy. Also, catalytic converters had a beneficial side effect: they forced the elimination of lead from gasoline, removing a major source of lead in the environment. Anyone who experienced the air quality of Los Angeles or Denver back in the seventies and again in the past decade (as I believe you have) would agree that the air in those cities is much better today. Automotive emission controls were a major contributor to that improvement.

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DoubleO7

01-03-2018 14:39:24




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
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Yes it will..........

Right after they cure cancer at no charge and when they change the federal income tax to one tax rate for all with no way to pay less.

Period



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Angle Iron

01-03-2018 14:16:18




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 Re: Saveing the world. It turned into preaching . in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeI just saw an article on the construction of a parking garage in Sioux Falls South Dakota. I have looked at articles about this project in the past. I have nothing to gain or loose in this project as I do not live there. One of the key selling points made by a city council man was that it was need to curb the very bad parking problems in the area. Then he went on to say it would bring at large number of new business into the area. The way I see it it will soon make the parking problems even worse. Looks to me as though its more about tax base expansion through new business as well as fees collected from the 14 story parking garage. More revenue to play with. Looks like he is trying to put the fire out with gasoline. Around here they build roads in help with bad traffic patterns. The thing is the developers seem to know where the new roads will be built first and buy the land long before the roads are completed. It has been a never ending rush to build roads. Our population growth is about developers not the needs of the area. It is a constant battle to try to get investors to bring in jobs to support all the people. I do not see things changing. When efforts have been made to slow growth they are met with an army of lawyers led by the developers and they have deep pockets. I am no tree huger but would hate to know how many acres of farm and forest land taken out of production in the last 25-30 years here. Just the ramblings of some one that no longer matters in the so called real world.

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Pete black

01-03-2018 10:18:02




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
What gets me is that those who drive an electric vehicle pulls up and expects to plug it in to recharge it for nothing.



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wheres waldo

01-03-2018 10:46:42




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Pete black, 01-03-2018 10:18:02  
You know, there is a tax added to gasoline/diesel for road usage. Those electric vehicle users are in for a 'surprise' when they find out they're going to be charged for mileage. And guess who is doing the checking?



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Traditional Farmer

01-03-2018 10:02:17




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
Where is all the electricity going to come from to recharge all these electric? Read this morning the cold has stretched the power grid about to its limit,plug in a few million cars and I'd expect it'd blow a gasket.



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buickanddeere

01-03-2018 09:44:08




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
Mostly it is an excuse for a platform to make or collect money and enforce power or control. If any complaint is made they defend themselves with “ it is saving the environment “ or “ it’s for the children”.



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showcrop

01-03-2018 09:35:12




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
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Jim, are you driving a Model T Ford? I understand that there have been a few upgrades to cars since the model T.



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Pete black

01-03-2018 09:15:30




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
Not to mention the mining of lead and it's extraction.



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Eldon (WA)

01-03-2018 09:08:13




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
I read where 'mining' bitcoin is taking tremendous amounts of energy....WTF??



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paul

01-03-2018 08:57:53




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
These are the kind of people that will save the world.

Because they know best.

Paul



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in-too-deep

01-03-2018 14:17:02




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to paul, 01-03-2018 08:57:53  
Hahaha! Best part was the gluten-free seitan skewer. Seitan in made ENTIRELY of wheat gluten! It's almost as if that article was making a mockery of the newlyweds. I hope so. Not for being vegan, that's fine, but for being such cryny whibabies!



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Dean

01-03-2018 13:16:27




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to paul, 01-03-2018 08:57:53  
They are what they are, Paul.

Dean



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Dean

01-03-2018 08:52:23




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
The so-called environmental issues will NEVER be solved.

If such so-called problems were solved, we would have no use for the EPA.

Think that's going to happen?

Dean



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carvel minne farmer

01-03-2018 08:33:11




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
now that's a sharp looking team bob, stepping right out there with the spreader. what else do you use them on. my dad used to have 21 head of clydsdales for hauling silver ore on big sleighs in the winter from keno hill to mayo during the winter, then during the summer he would load barges that came up the stewart river in the summer, using big high wheel drays. we had 2 1/4's that we farmed with horses, for mainly green feed (oats) for the horses and 2 huge gardens to feed us and half the town.

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carvel minne farmer

01-03-2018 08:33:01




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
now that's a sharp looking team bob, stepping right out there with the spreader. what else do you use them on. my dad used to have 21 head of clydsdales for hauling silver ore on big sleighs in the winter from keno hill to mayo during the winter, then during the summer he would load barges that came up the stewart river in the summer, using big high wheel drays. we had 2 1/4's that we farmed with horses, for mainly green feed (oats) for the horses and 2 huge gardens to feed us and half the town.

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jimg.allentown

01-03-2018 08:26:15




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
You are looking in the wrong place. The gases that batteries give off when charging are relatively harmless. The problem lies in where the electricity comes from to charge them. The answer? From power plants many miles away that are polluting many more times than a gasoline engine to do the same amount of work.

I have said this before, and I will say it again. Electric cars are only of limited value due to several factors. Short range, long charging times, limited amount of recharging that can be done to a given battery. Current battery technology is simply not up to the job.

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Gary Mitchell

01-03-2018 08:40:08




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to jimg.allentown, 01-03-2018 08:26:15  
The guy that sold us and installed our "array" here at the house has 2 free car "plug-ins" at his business, "Roof Power Solar," at Rich Hill, MO. They're on old 71 just off I 49 or US 71. Available 24/7. gm



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Bobl1958

01-03-2018 08:08:23




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  

Well, if we do revert back to horse and buggy, I at least have a head start..lol!



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kansasredneck

01-04-2018 05:52:24




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Bobl1958, 01-03-2018 08:08:23  
Limo Service for the Washington D.C. Elite!



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jeffcat

01-03-2018 08:22:42




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Bobl1958, 01-03-2018 08:08:23  
Very handsome, the horses;)



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9001ron

01-03-2018 07:59:03




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
The one and only way to save the planet is planed population reduction . This will never happen --- well unless nature does it on her own. China had the right idea for awhile but that is past now . Every body dealing in business is looking for growth and expansion . Here in Canada the population isn't growing fast enough for them so they are taking in immigrants at a whole sale pace . As it is 1 in 5 are recent immigrants and they are shooting for 1 in 3 .The only way that I can see us returning to the horse and buggy days is after a major calamity that kills off 90 % of the worlds population . Barring that scientists like Steven Halking and the such predict that the human race will suffer an total extinction in 200 or 300 years . After that the earth will recover over time .

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steve706

01-03-2018 09:08:45




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to 9001ron, 01-03-2018 07:59:03  
Canada needs immigrants, the more the better, and its not a new thing, we need the tax base.



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dhermesc

01-03-2018 09:32:40




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to steve706, 01-03-2018 09:08:45  
You seem to think "immigrants = workers". The US has a couple million people it will send you.



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steve706

01-03-2018 10:30:23




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to dhermesc, 01-03-2018 09:32:40  
Our social support system isnt exactly as appealing as yours, thats why they head there in the first place, change the system and they will disappear....Most that immigrate to Canada want a better life and tend to work for it, no shame in that.



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rrlund

01-03-2018 08:25:46




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to 9001ron, 01-03-2018 07:59:03  
I think there'll be a pandemic eventually that'll take a lot of lives don't you? Seems to happen every now and then when the population becomes too dense in any one place anyway. In the past it's been localized. The plague in Europe,small pox,the flu in 1918 that killed over 600,000 people. Trouble with localizing something now is that something like that can get on a plane and be around the world in a day. Nature has a way of taking care of itself eventually.

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wheres waldo

01-03-2018 09:32:30




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to rrlund, 01-03-2018 08:25:46  
Your Dad got the flu in 1918. I got the same flu in 1957. The similarity is that the folks that survived the 1918 flu did NOT get the 1957 pandemic. I have NEVER had a flu shot since then and I have NEVER gotten the flu. The genuine flu puts you in bed for a week with high temperatures and EVERY joint aches. I was nine years old when I got it. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger sure fits. going on 70 years now

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9001ron

01-03-2018 09:03:51




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to rrlund, 01-03-2018 08:25:46  
Yes my dad got the 1918 flu [Spanish flu] when he was 2 months old . Here in Canada it came on the railway and spread out at each whistle stop . Killed a lot of people . Dad survived but had bad asthma the rest of his life . The Spanish flu burned itself out on its own just leaving those that fought it off -- as far as I know there weren't any vaccine's used on it . In Africa they are fighting (were)Ebola . It is diseases like this that are about the only thing limiting the population other than pure starvation . So now the population of Africa will explode . Nature will eventually supply a disease that cannot be medically counter measured and with a population essentially shoulder to shoulder and like you made the point of ----one of them could get on a plane and be any where in a matter of hours. In my opinion high population density's also increase the likely hood of war and strife .
The smart thing to do would be to start a population reduction program -- this is where I will leave it . I don't want to get called anti social -- but this is what is done with animals that populations exceed there resources or are in danger of diseases spreading like wild fire . In the end it protects the herd --- where a few can live in lou of the entire bunch dying

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jeffcat

01-03-2018 14:13:08




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to 9001ron, 01-03-2018 09:03:51  
I read stories about Australia and the rabbit plauge. Some people got hold of the virus that kills rabits and it was passed around between land owners like pound bags of refer. Throw some dead rabbit in a blender and mix up a batch of killer virus. Reading on wiki about it. Early 50s they had Myxoma virus and in the 90s 5hey used calicivorus. Always some idiot who introduced something that doesn't belong and has no natural predators. Yes we do need one heck of a dozzie of a plauge.

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rrlund

01-03-2018 09:29:01




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to 9001ron, 01-03-2018 09:03:51  
Uncle Raymond's (Dad's sister Anna's husband) dad died of it when Raymond was quite young.



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VADAVE

01-03-2018 08:49:13




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to rrlund, 01-03-2018 08:25:46  
I'm with you on that. Either a pandemic or one heck of a war (probably nuclear) to reset the population. Problem with china's approach was it was forced and not accepted nation wide. It worked for a while but the people didn't want it and will be right back where they were before long. Pandemic or war will reset the population but unless the people internalize the idea of controlling population growth it will only reset the population growth to a lower number. Nuclear war has other not so nice consequences and make part of the world uninhabitable for quite a while.

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rrlund

01-03-2018 09:25:50




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to VADAVE, 01-03-2018 08:49:13  
There was a marathon of medical shows on the other day that was interesting as well as a little scary. One of them was about a disease called Familial Fatal Insomnia. It's caused by a prion like CWD,mad cow,scrappies and things like that are. Not caused by a virus or bacteria,so once you have it,there's no cure. You're done for. So far,it's not that easily passed on,but something like a prion caused pandemic could wreak havoc and have long legs as far as carrying on for generations to come.

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Ken Macfarlane

01-03-2018 07:45:37




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
Hydrogen doesnt have the same global warming potential and as mentioned lithium batteries dont emit it.

They are working on some fancy carbon batteries that are much less environmentally damaging, 10 more years will offer more options in batteries. The nicads and ni-mh have fallen aside the last few years, so will lithium ion.



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onefarmer

01-03-2018 07:39:15




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
If co2 causes the problems they say it does, how do we stop making it? Pump oil/gas out of the earth and burn it, doesn't it introduce more co2? Time to go back to the 1800's and use horses.



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tomtinker

01-03-2018 07:44:49




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to onefarmer, 01-03-2018 07:39:15  
They say horse poop also has emissions.lol.



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onefarmer

01-03-2018 10:01:59




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to tomtinker, 01-03-2018 07:44:49  
Yes but it recycles just, like the trees I burn. lol



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ireight

01-03-2018 07:37:33




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
The batteries used in those crazy electric cars, are lithium.

Lithium is mined as a rare earth. I'm not knowledgeable on rare earth mining but imagine that it take 10 tons of earth to get one pound of copper.

Lithium is worse, and the strongest areas to find lithium is africa, and afghanistan, mostly mined by slaves and slave children. I found a very interesting article about it last summer. But it is just another example of the hypocrisy of the left.

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DeltaRed

01-03-2018 07:30:33




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
Going back to horse and buggy might actually be a good thing...LOL First,ag production will go down by 50%. How much human food will be converted to horses?People will be starving,with nothing to eat. Overpopulation would be curtailed. All the fat lazy welfare people will have to work,instead of just sitting around.No more just sitting in front of the TV pushing a botton.the internet probably wouldn't exist. The welfare folks will have to work to eat.People will get back to reling on each other,as they used to. just think of all the horse poop that will be everywhere?LOL All the hand labor that will be needed? The possibilities or ramifications will be endless....... Good topic for discussion.

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gene bender

01-03-2018 09:08:36




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to DeltaRed, 01-03-2018 07:30:33  
Ag production will go down much more that 50% try 90% try 50bu corn and 10 beans cause without modern tech yields will fall way way down lower than we have ever dreamed about



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rrlund

01-03-2018 07:24:08




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
I don't think we're talking lead acid batteries here are we? I really don't know,maybe somebody else does,but can the kind of batteries we're talking here be recycled?



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rbhuntn

01-03-2018 07:14:10




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Could not have said it better



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DeltaRed

01-03-2018 07:09:34




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
How about the 'hole' they dig all the ore for those batterys out of?You can see it from space.And allthe fossil fuels ysed to transport and process the stuff!Or the 'tree huggers' who don't want to log the forest,or even graze them.Seems they would rather see it burn than use it...Don't get me started..........This thread could turn into a very long one!



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rustyfarmall

01-03-2018 07:05:23




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Brent Zappe, 01-03-2018 07:00:29  
My idea for saving the world is to just stop building more highways. If there is no place for driving a car, people will start walking once again.



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Mike M

01-03-2018 07:48:21




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to rustyfarmall, 01-03-2018 07:05:23  
They will just take the ATV and go right across your fields !



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olgentdc

01-03-2018 22:41:38




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 Re: Saveing the world. in reply to Mike M, 01-03-2018 07:48:21  
those shytheds are doing it all the time here,,.. thinking about a bafbwitre clothesline



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