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Patton at The Bulge

Ultradog MN

Ultradog MN

Well-known Member
Location
Twin Cities
This little piece is actually a lesson in leadership for business but the subject matter and the main character are for the ages.
I know my posts have mainly to do with sailors and the naval war so here's a long overdue nod to our great soldiers without whom, the job could never have gotten done.
Patton at the Bulge
 

History has shown again and again how a rapid bold attack can overcome a very bad position. Chamberlain was out of ammo at Little Round Top. He didn't fall back or surrender, he charged and made all of the confederates in front of him his prisoners, eliminating the need for ammunition. "Mad dog" Mattis pushed his officers to advance rapidly northward through Iraq preventing the Iraqi's from reforming under their leaders. Again and again a breakneck speed advance has prevented thousands of caualties. During WWII the platoon leaders were harangued constantly to keep their men moving or the enemy mortars would get the range on them. One of the worst examples of the results of delay was the Crimea where the Anzac leaders made a beach head, then rested for two days while the Turks used the time to heavily fortify the high ground above them. Casualties were veery high for many months following the rest.
 
Dad was in Pattons command during the Battle of the Bulge. He never talked much about it. He did say in that battle nobody slept for several days. When the war was over in Europe he was sent to the Phillipines so he served in both theaters. I grew up with him and several other WWII vets around. They were awesome men and a great influence on my life.
 
I don't know all the details of the two men but Eisenhower had to deal with the politics of the war, Patton didn't.
 
Patton was a good/great field general but would have been terrible at the politicking it took to keep the Allies working together in Europe. You had other egos just as big or bigger to keep smoothed. One of these is the English commander Montgomery I just can not see why the English though he was so special.
 
(quoted from post at 06:01:24 12/15/17) Time correction - the Anzacs were at Galipoli in WW1, not Crimea.
Click to expand...

Geography correction: I was referring to the WWI campaign but incorrectly stated Crimea instead of Gallipoli where it actually happened. Thanks
 
I was a kid when the movie Patton came on tv. My dad and I watched it. That's when I found out he was with Patton in Africa. He said it was true that Patton pulled out his pistol and returned fire on a plane. He was with him during the Bulge to. He said the part with Patton directing traffic was true to. He was driving a truck and went through that intersection. I asked him about Patton and the only thing he would ever say about him was that he was one mean son of a B. That was the most he ever talked about the war to me.
 
The other countries really had no choice but to go along with what the US wanted during WWII since we were supplying almost all the equipment and money to fight the war.Should have taken
Patton's advice and run Russia out of Eastern Europe.
 
IMO Patton made sure he always had (or made sure his staff always had) a plan B or even C no matter what, which is why he could turn the tables at a moment's notice. The issue with this being a lesson for business is that, too often, having a plan B may be misconstrued as being fatalistic about plan A and is frowned upon.
 
True but every war has a top general where he has to deal with politics, unfortunately. You're right about Patton - he would have never been a politician. That's one reason why he was in the field and not back in an office.
 
Agreed, JD, Montgomery was mediocre but the British needed a hero and he was the only available candidate.
 
Thats Because YOU R Dad Saw Action and GOOD Men Dying,,.. You had to pry that stuff out of My Dad too ,, When I took him to Hawaii , He told me about having Breakfast at the same table with ERNIE PIYLE ,. said they were all on a ship, He just come over and sat down with dad and serveral other guys and asked them where home was ,Very swell kinda GUy ..Dad also said he was a supposed to get out in march 1944 when his 2 yrs were up ,. The Upper-ups told them they should ALL re-enlist in the Amphibious Tank division on the spot and claim a little bonus.. They Also Stated , If They opted out to go Home ,.They Had to let them Go ,.. but upon arrival they will have a draft notice before they even got home,..And There Is No telling what helhole the Army Would stick Them in next..
 
"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]Patton was a good/great field general but would have been terrible at the politicking[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]"

a250413.jpg" width="650"
 
Here are two of my favorite Patton quotes.
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.
and
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.

If your ever in Kentucky the Patton muesem is a must see.
 
I enjoy reading Dad's WW II diary. He was a forward observer for Patton's artillery. Still get a chuckle, there was a 2 week gap in Dec '44, and after Christmas he wrote "Dear diary, sorry I haven't written in a while, been kinda busy"
 
There was a guy here in town that I knew quite well who drove fuel truck for Patton. He worked at the milk plant and walked to work every day. He never drove again after he got back from the war. Everybody figured it was driving a rolling bomb that drove him in to the bottle. I don't know if he ever would have told any stories or not,even if he'd have been sober enough.

The only war story he ever told me was of running in to another guy from here in town. He said he ran in to him in France in a house of ill repute. LOL
 
agreed ,. However ,,. EVERYONE in their morale conciuos WAS SICK of the sacrifices and Hardships and Horrible waste of War ,,,.. and they hoped Russia would find and have and maintain a morale conciuois ,... it was the right thing to do AT THe TIME ,.. But, Russia chose to lead in the wrong direction ,,. And Wise Men predicted that would happen.
 
sadly , That is a true statement ,..they reached into the bottom of the barrel of tea swigglers to get montgomery... ,,.. the Britz and ALL of Europeweredam lucky we pulled their fayt out of the fire ,..However , there was good reason ...FDR and his handlers knew Who was GOING TO BE NEXT in the WORLD STRANGLEHOLD should England fall, and strategically AMERICA would had been Under a horrible disadvantage with 2 enemies having free reign over both oceans at her doorstep .. Always remember , There is no appeasing a tyrant ,. He Can ONLY be DESTROYED ,..on that theme , it could be why conspiracy theorist claim Patton's car accident was no accident
 
Dads B-I-l Arch was there too , he came out a saergeant..He came home and ran a dairy farm along the Ohjo river , Dads bought a place sits on the knobs above them ,and they worked well together ,. Golly , they taught us All to Live l ife Big and Large in the 50s-60s ,and that push is still serving our family
 
You should Thank GOD , The right men WERE Divinely Placed correctly in those positions ,, Free Mankind needed that recipe to remain free ..The same could be said for Lee and Grant at the close of the Cival War ... in that case America could have went on to fight a guerilla war that would had lasted another 40 yrs, or until Germany came in thru Mexico..
 
My understanding is that Patton was one of the first to embrace liaison aircraft (the Piper Cubs) as "far" forward observers that later became pivotal in many campaigns.
 

Dad was part of the 22nd Armored Field Artillery Division that made the trip to Bastogne.
He never talked about the actual fighting they did, but often talked about the places they when and sights they seen.
He had great admiration for Patton and had nothing good to say about Monty.

Eisenhower did a good job of keeping all of the allied forces together, he knew when to play nice and when to be firm.

Patton was a great fighter and tactician, but he would have told Montgomery and De Gaulle to go play in a sand box while he won the war, and he probably could have but it would have cost a lot more American lives.

Dad was badly wounded at the Rhine river a little after the Battle of the Bulge.

Dad named me after his company commander General John S Wood.

James Babcock: Your dad may have been a forward observer for my dad's outfit, 22nd field artillery, company C


John
 
Just love the movie Patton. Love how Scott plays him. Scott also has the commanding voice a leader should have! Pattons voice sounded like the little dweeb in 5he stock room.
We,have the men and equipment here now. Lets kick the russians in the as....
 
"...............but would have been terrible at the politicking it took to keep the Allies working together......"

I read the book about Monty and George and in there was mentioned that exact reason for selecting IKE for supreme commander. He apparently had no other qualifications one would expect a supreme commander to possess but that was the one needed for the job.

I agree with everyone on the fact that Monty had an ego problem and no telling how many lives were lost as a result of that.
 
I was 10 when he died. I didn't understand that back then. I always wish I could have learned more about him.
 
John, I will have to check when I get back home. I have a bundle of all the letters he sent home. Working in Okla right now, headed back to Ark
today.
 
Yes, I knew a few of those guys in San Antonio in the 80's. At first the Germans would take potshots at the liaison aircraft, but learned really quickly that was a bad idea since that area would get lit up by artillery soon after. There were at least half a dozen types of aircraft besides Cubs. Stinson made some for sure, can't recall the others but pretty sure Aeronca Champs were in there, too.
 
Regarding Eisenhower, MacArthur said it best: "Best Aid I ever had."

That said, he was probably the best available choice (MacArthur was not available) for Supreme Commander in the European Theater. Bradley was a placeholder.

Dean
 
"Lets kick the russians in the as...."

The world would be a much different place had he been allowed to do so.

Dean
 
My take on the battle was : guys in field " hey we keep hearing German mechanized equipment at night" Headquarters- " There are no Germans near you" Guys in Ardennes - " we keep hearing German mechanized equipment at night" Headquarters-" Um , yes you are surrounded by Germans, sorry we goofed".
 
Didn't Mountbatten help organize the disastrous and ill prepared raid on Dieppe that cost over 900 Canadian lives in one day?
Ben
 
My dad a ww2 vet always thought Montgomery was a jerk.
His thought was if up to Montgomery the Germans would have kicked his pompous axx.
 

If we'd had McArthur in the European Theater pounding his chest along side Montgomery and DeGaulle we probably would have lost.

None of them would have had the forethought or determination to make the run to Bastogne like Patton did.
 
There is a museum in the California desert near Indio, where he trained his men. I got a chance to see it a couple years ago. stan
a250430.jpg
 
There wer also some "commandeered " Storks too. One of 5he most rugged and flyable little toys the Germans ever built. Basically a glider with an engine screwed onto the front. You could almost land and takeoff from a tennis court. Several stories in air magazine and some very good U'tube stuff. Here is a short oringinal. Next is a beauty of a restoration. The germans had some kick butt looking stuff.
stork
 
what do we really know of Eisenhower, patton, Bradley, monty, degaule (sp) and all the other leaders back then. all we truly know is they beat the shiitte out of the lousy krauts and that's all we need to know.
 
(quoted from post at 16:16:41 12/15/17) what do we really know of Eisenhower, patton, Bradley, monty, degaule (sp) and all the other leaders back then. all we truly know is they beat the shiitte out of the lousy krauts and that's all we need to know.
Click to expand...

Many of us know numerous tiny details about many of them. There are many biographies that many of us have read. One little detail that has stuck with me about Monty was his total belief in a strategy where any advance towards the enemy could take place only along a part of the front, of a distance of only 15-20 miles wide, while units on each side pretty much said put. To advance along the whole front would put the forces "off balance". He fought with Ike and the other allied commanders constantly about this.
 
Patton like MacArthur was a very dangerous person who had utter contempt for civilian control of the military. Strategically, Germany(in spite of a last ditch effort at the Bulge) was pretty much defeated by Russians. Russian losses were around 22 MILLION compared to under 300 THOUSAND for America. Patton's boasting about "taking Berlin" and "licking the Russians" is utter nonsense. Stalin had 300 divisions in Germany compared to 80 for the Americans. The division of Germany and the disposition of Eastern Europe were political decisions and were pretty much decided at this time and were formalized at the Yalta Conference in March.
 
TRACTOR-WISE, STORK HAD AN UPSIDE-DOWN ARGUS AIR-COOLED V-8, 245 H.P....FORD SPARK PLUGS FIT IT...FLEW ONE MUCHO FOR CONFEDERATE AIR FORCE, HOBBS...GLORIOUS PLANE...I HAVE BEEN SO BLESSED IN AVIATION...
 
SHOULDA ADDED, MET ONE OF THE STORK DESIGNERS AT RUIDOSO, HERMANN BORGES...HIS PROUDEST WORK FOR FIESELER WAS ON THE V-1 BUZZ BOMB...WARS OVER LONG AGO, OLD MAN...BE BLESSED, GRATEFUL, PREPARED...
 
Dads brother was with Patton, had a couple of tanks blown out from under him. Even though he spent a year in rehab, He thought Patton was the greatest General of WW2. Dad was sharp shooter, Brother Don was with Patton, brother Keith was a belly gunner on a Bomber, youngest brother John had a destroyer blown out from under him in the south seas. All lived a good long life. Never could get them to talk about their experiences.
 
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