Cold weather starting

Wildride47 · Dec 14, 2017

Had some difficulty starting the JD2555 Diesel this evening. 20F and the block freeze plug heater was shorted. I needed to replace the heater but I’m unsure what makes the best heater.

1. Non circulating freeze plug heater
2. Circulating coolant heater
3. Magnetic pan heater

Does anyone have an opinion what type is works best For the price

Russ from MN · Dec 14, 2017

If it already has a block heater I would just replace it with one that is similar, they are the most effective. The biggest magnetic heater
I have seen is 300 watts and on the outside of the oil pan that is not much, but it's better than nothing. I use both when I am in a hurry
to use our tractor, then it starts like summer in a couple of hours.

K Effective · Dec 14, 2017

The small magnet heater I bought is useless, prefer the freeze plug heater, but have a canister style now as well.

jon f mn · Dec 14, 2017

If it really gets cold only a circulating
heater is enough. For above zero temps a
block heater is enough. Here where it gets
well below zero most diesels need the tank
heater. I've heard the type that go in the
lower radiator hose work well too.

WGM · Dec 14, 2017

Not to sound like a smart *ss, but the one most difficult to install would be the better heater. That would be the circulating type heater. Magnetic pan heaters aren't worth bringing home.

redih55 · Dec 14, 2017

I have a tank type heater on my 856 and I haven't had any problems getting the old girl to start in the wintertime.

Wildride47 · Dec 14, 2017

I’m not sure if the one in the block is original equipment or aftermarket, doesn’t look like Deere. I guess I’ll be calling tomorrow to see if they have a replacement. The cold engine killed my battery’s tonight trying to get it started.

OliverGuy · Dec 14, 2017

A magnetic heater is not worth a lot like everyone is saying. I did some quick help on a little JD 4400 of mine doing snow duty, it took two mag
heaters to make a difference on that tiny dude

JD Seller · Dec 14, 2017

Just replace the cord on your block heater. They are the best in my opinion. They circulate the coolant in the block by thermal cycle.

The external tank style heaters work OK if you have them plumbed correctly. The lines need to allow the thermal cycle to work. Meaning the tank has to set right and no air locks in the hoses. I have more trouble with them than the block heaters.

The magnetic pan heaters are basically useless if you have very cold weather.

For emergency starts when a block or tank heater fails , use a space heater pointed at the block and block the other side with some thing to hold the heat under the hood.

P.S. The most off the wall cold start I ever did was starting a JD 5020 that was setting in the middle of a field. I did not have generator at that time. So I jumped the batteries off the pickup to charge/warm them up. I took a sheet of corrugated metal on the ground under the oil pan/block. I dumped a bag of charcoal bricketes on it and lite it. Stood two pieces of plywood on each side leaning against the frame rails to funnel the heat around the motor. It started in about 30 minutes. It was 5 degrees at the time.

Wildride47 · Dec 14, 2017

Lol, that is the most creative work around I’ve heard of for a cold start. Warms the block and cooks lunch at the same time. The barn was 12F tonight. Not the best conditions to fire up the old girl.

DoubleR · Dec 14, 2017

I've had good luck with the lower radiator hose heaters on my smaller Diesels.
About 30 bucks at TSC or AutoZone. I always figured if one didn't work out I would just have to buy a new hose but have never had to. I've installed about eight of them that I can think of on various different Diesel tractors I've had. If you have one that worked ok before it shorted out you may just want to replace it with the same thing though. Don't waste you time on a pan heater. I also have been running a 10x30 Diesel Grade oil in my small loader tractor in the winter to help it crank over easier. I've started that tractor at -20 below with just plugging it in for a hour beforehand.

Eldon (WA) · Dec 14, 2017

In a pinch take a heat gun and stick it in the air intake....

JDEM · Dec 14, 2017

We only put circulating heaters on 50 and 55 series tractors when new. Can't say I ever saw a block heater on one.
Generally speaking -block heaters are often low wattage and often left on all the time, or at least all nights in the
winter. Circulating heats are often high wattage and make a lot of heat, fast. You can plug one in and be ready to start
in half an hour, even when below zero F with a big circulating heater. We put 1500-1800 watt heaters on a lot of big
tractors. If you read the directions for those heaters - it goes by the gallon-capacity of the cooling system.

I am not saying one is "better" then the other. They tend to be used differently. As far as a magnetic pan heater goes?
Kind of worthless as I see it.

My 445 cubic inch diesel truck has a block-frost-plug heater and it is only 120 watts. My tractor with a 144 cubic inch
engine has a 1500 watt circulating heater (much bigger then it calls for). Guess which one heats up faster?

JDEM · Dec 14, 2017

By the way, weren't many of the 55 series engines made in France? If so, maybe a few came through with European style heaters? I never saw one though. I know our 350D crawlers came out around the same time and those had engines made in Saran, France instead of Dubuque.

notjustair · Dec 14, 2017

I use the block heater style on everything but the 4020 - it came with a tank type when it was new. Just last year I needed to replace it and they
had the element and cord in stock and ready to go - I didn't need to buy the tank part at all. It's funny, kind of. We ran only IH tractors when I
was growing up. We didn't even have electricity in the shed where they were parked. If it was really cold you just used the ether assist. I only
have one bigger IH tractor and the rest are Deere. I still don't hardly plug in that 886. If it gets into the single digits I will, but otherwise it just
fires up everyday. I can't dream of doing that with any of the green tractors. All fine motors and great machines, but they start completely
different. There are three of them plugged in right now because I will use them at some point tomorrow.

coshoo · Dec 14, 2017

Fairly common to start a fire under logging equipment in the woods around here in cold weather, back when compression ratios were lower on diesels. Some guy had to show up early so he could get all the fires going so everything was ready to start when the main crew showed up.

JD Seller · Dec 14, 2017

JDEM The real late JD 2555 block numbers had a freeze plug type of coolant heater. The rest of the Mannheim tractors had to have tank type heaters put on them.

An interesting thing. The Willmar Wrangler loader used JD engines in them. They are 75 HP 4 cylinder motors. They have block heater elements in them. They must have put the block heater hole in the industrial motors before the Ag motors got them.

Bob · Dec 14, 2017

WOW, you should have played the lottery instead of posting here!

In my 60 years in this earth in a CCCCOOOLLLDDD unforgiving climate I have NEVER had to deal with a "shorted" block heater.

And, if I ever do I'll replace it with a new heater from the OEM or aftermarket, if a similar unit is available there.

tomturkey · Dec 14, 2017

What is the function of the marks and big C and tm when you are typing your message. Consistently with "I am" and also following "doesn't" Just curious. gobble

mmidlam · Dec 15, 2017

Can another heater be installed on the other side of the 445 engine?

used red MN · Dec 15, 2017

Gobble, that is confused punctuation marks. I have recently informed YT Support this is happening and they are looking into it. I post from an iPhone on Classic and I noticed that when I view my post in Modern some punctuation does not transfer between the two views properly. It also happpens posting in Modern and view in Classic, which is the result you are seeing. I?ll attached a link to the thread I posted to Site Comments that has some better technical explanations by the Support folks. It also includes some of my musings while attempting to learn how to post a link on Modern. I also have a trial post on this issue in the test forum.
Site Comments punctuation post

JDEM · Dec 15, 2017

I have come across several immersion heaters (block or frost-plug in head) with shorted power cords that are easy to replace. Cannot say I saw a shorted heater. New power cords are common replacement items.

With the circulation tank-type heaters, I have hot-wired countless numbers of them that stopped working. Usually due to a burnt-up circuit breaker inside or a bad thermostat. Usually just popped the tin can off them and hot-wired them direct.

I wonder if the one I left on for a month at my place was one I hot-wired many years ago. We had many take-offs at the Deere dealership I worked at that I'd "fix" and take home.

caterpillar guy · Dec 15, 2017

block heaters work best to me. They heat where it is needed. As for the below zero needs a tank heater. We do not have a tank heater on anything ad start things well below zero in MI with just block heaters or lower radiator hose heaters. Don't like ether starting at all.
On your Deere if you turn the steering wheel back and forth as you turn it over it will start easier and turn faster on the starter. My brothers 2940 will start that way and not without in cold winter weather.
I never thought those magnetic and dipstick heaters were worth much. Never used one but the heat is on the outside looking in.

jon f mn · Dec 15, 2017

Do you plug your tractors in right after shutting them off and leave them plugged in? I've found that block heaters will keep an engine warm but won't heat a cold engine. With a circulating heater you ca n plug them in an hour or so before starting and they will warm a cold engine. For tractors that are used regularly keeping them plugged in is a good idea. For less used tractors it may not be best.

rrlund · Dec 15, 2017

That's what's on my Oliver 1850 and White 2-105. It was -1F yesterday morning. I plugged in the 1850 for an hour and it started right up like it was 70 degrees outside. I've got no problems with a freeze plug heater either though. That's what my 2-135 has and the 4040 Deere had.

Tech 7 · Dec 15, 2017

Lots of good info here. I liked the tank heaters as not only do they have more heating capacity, you can change them
without draining the system. Just pinch the hoses of to isolate the heater and swap it. I had almost forgotten about
the late 55's having thread in style. One thing that helps them is to minimize the wind blowing on that block if they
are outside.....even a tarp can make a big difference.
As far as wiggling the steering wheel..... use the destroke screw on the hydraulic pump!! Its like steroids for you
starter.

rusty6 · Dec 15, 2017

(quoted from post at 08:06:58 12/15/17) Do you plug your tractors in right after shutting them off and leave them plugged in? I've found that block heaters will keep an engine warm but won't heat a cold engine. With a circulating heater you ca n plug them in an hour or so before starting and they will warm a cold engine. For tractors that are used regularly keeping them plugged in is a good idea. For less used tractors it may not be best.

I never leave an engine heater plugged in. Heard of too many fires starting from shorted cords. I've always planned my needs so that I can plug in the heater a few hours (or minutes) before I need the tractor and its ready. Those frost plug heaters work just fine. My 2090 Case starts better at 0F than it does at +80 thanks to the frost plug heater being plugged in a few hours. And that 504 engine has a lot of coolant to heat. The old Massey Super 90 has an external 1500 watt circulating type heater. I'll leave it plugged in a few hours in super cold weather but normally anything over an hour is overkill. The engine is warm to touch and starts on one turn of the starter . And this is Saskatchewan winters.

radara4077 · Dec 15, 2017

Just to add to the convo:

It seems like it's too cold for what I'm about to suggest to work, but if you "wiggle" the steering wheel while you crank, it releases pressure in the hydraulic pump which makes it easier for the old gal to turn over.

If the temperature is "on the fence" and you need her started, wiggle the steering, for sure!

Texasmark1 · Dec 15, 2017

Went out to feed Wed. and '65 Ford 3000D was hard to start. After getting things done put it in the shop and found that the push button
switch on the dash that runs the "slobbering great balls of fire....aka Thermostart" mechanism was bad.

Installed a new switch and checked to ensure that it worked and that was it for the problem.

This AM I go out and engage the TS, giving it about a minute to get hot and no start.....no start....no start......I knew it was working and that
there was no reason for the tractor not starting. Just accidentally moved my head slightly and noticed that I had the fuel lever pulled
out......daaaaaaaaaa.

Pushed it in and she lit off in less than a second.

jon f mn · Dec 15, 2017

The 70 series and newer cases are the best
starting diesels I've come across. If they
are in good shape they will start well
below 0?f with nothing to help. Our 970
never had a heater that worked and until it
was well worn didn't need either. Was many
times the only thing we had that would
start on the really cold days.

Bernie/MA · Dec 15, 2017

My old gas Fords start good on a good battery or jumpstart. The problem is the 2-cyl Wis, electric start. If it was crank my arm would give out. Pop once or twice and try again. Solution is a heat gun on the carb/intake about 20 minutes.

Wildride47 · Dec 15, 2017

Tomorrow morning I will put the multi meter on the cord and the heater to see what shorted. I’m hoping for the $20 repair not the $87 heater. More to follow. Lol

Cold weather starting

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