Tire Safety

showcrop · Dec 11, 2017

Most of us already know this but I think that it is worth bringing it up. We used to always make sure to have our deepest tread on the drive tires, but in recent times we are being cautioned by most tire dealers that if we have front wheel drive it is very important to have just as good tread on the rear as in the front. The reason is that various forces such as curves and the crown in the road put sideways force on the tires. If the rear tire tread is not adequate to maintain sideways traction against that force, the car is going to want to swap ends. It is far better to want to go and not to be able to than to be able to go but not steer.

Mike M · Dec 11, 2017

I found out just how true this is with fwd. I thought I could just get by with snow tires on the front. I had good tread on the all seasons I left on the rear. First little snow even with some weight added to the rear I made a left hand turn in town from a stop light and the rear end wanted to swap ends with the front ! Off to the tire shop for 2 more. I am also a believer in snow tires. All season don't seem worth much in snow.

Leroy · Dec 11, 2017

I have never found that and for years I drove around a thousand miles a week on rural roads in all kinds of weather. Only have Rear wheel drive now or 4 wheel and on slick shift to netrual when getting ready to stop.

BarnyardEngineering · Dec 11, 2017

It doesn't matter what you drive, RWD, FWD, AWD, or 4WD, you need good tread all the way around in slick conditions.

Even if the front tires aren't driving, they are steering and doing 90% of the stopping. Even if the rear tires aren't driving, they're keeping the back end of the vehicle in the back. If you run bald tires you're going to constantly be fighting to keep your vehicle in the road when the snow falls.

I'm headed to get new tires on my pickup truck this afternoon. 64,000 miles on 'em and they're not wore out but they're no good in the snow. Had a couple of tense moments driving home through the Buffalo lake effect snow band yesterday, where if the tires were good I should not have had any issues.

Bret4207 · Dec 11, 2017

I've always believed the best tires should be your steering tires. Maybe no one else has ever hydroplaned through a corner and realized the lesson in this?

Stephen Newell · Dec 11, 2017

They tell you anything to sell you tires. You shouldn't trust tire people with even the time of day.

Texasmark1 · Dec 11, 2017

I too read the "recommendations". When I only did 2 at a time, it was always on the drive tires as they wear fastest and it helped to keep
the tread equal. That's "my opinion" as to what's best for us....me.

Roger Tomfohrde · Dec 11, 2017

Another age old debate-- but I will state for a fact that I have two front wheel drive cars right now that have to have as good as or better rear tires than the front. Back end will( not possibly) swing out
and go ahead of you on a slightly slippery road. It doesn't matter if it is straight or a curve, curves are worse. And yes the four wheel alignment is done often to make sure it is not an alignment problem.
Bring your balder or hard tires up here and drive in the Twin Cities when conditions are moderately slippery and you will find out. Just saying as I have tested that theory a couple times and did not like
it. Poor or hard tires here is dangerous and I have been lucky and not hit anything yet when out of control. The argument of slow down works but if you are the slowest one then you just became a problem that
should not be on the road. Poor tires on the front of a front wheel drive will get around a lot better than a pickup with even a 1000 lbs in the back. I know that for a fact also and have done it many times.
It is not the snow but ice that gets people into trouble.

Eldon (WA) · Dec 11, 2017

(quoted from post at 05:11:53 12/11/17) Most of us already know this but I think that it is worth bringing it up. We used to always make sure to have our deepest tread on the drive tires, but in recent times we are being cautioned by most tire dealers that if we have front wheel drive it is very important to have just as good tread on the rear as in the front. The reason is that various forces such as curves and the crown in the road put sideways force on the tires. If the rear tire tread is not adequate to maintain sideways traction against that force, the car is going to want to swap ends. It is far better to want to go and not to be able to than to be able to go but not steer.

People with bad tires warn me of changing road conditions...I commend them!

Ken Macfarlane · Dec 11, 2017

Depends on the car. Some front wheel drives are set up to understeer so bad you could run steel rimmed tires in the back and not get the car to oversteer.

I have experienced the effect though, brand new winters up front and all seasons behind. Outside camber, downhill turn while slowing down.

I try to keep the rears no more than 10-20% worse than the fronts, they level themselves out quite well over the winter.

Not every front wheel drive car is amazing in snow, we had a toyota matrix, that darned thing would get stuck on everything even with brand new winters. Our F350 with half worn rear tires in 2wd
would get around in twice the snow with nothing in the bed. Back to driving subaru's again for commuting, can't beat awd.

jeffcat · Dec 11, 2017

There ya go. There are quite a few on U'tube. Knew a guy who had one. He really loved it.
subaru

jeffcat · Dec 11, 2017

The biggest thing I hate are the ABS brakes. I know how to feather
brakes and those damn things will sit and pulse like crazy with three
wheels on dry road and a front right on a postage stamp worth of mud
or snow. Had an Astro van company truck that had the control box die.
Drove it for two years happy as a clam. Took it in for service and
they fixed the stupid brain!!!! I was totaly ticked off.

MarkB_MI · Dec 11, 2017

Eh, not really.

On front-wheel drive vehicles, the front tires handle all of the acceleration force and (because of weight distribution) the majority of the braking force. A tire will not slip sideways until it breaks traction, either from acceleration, braking or lateral forces. And under most conditions, the lateral forces on rear tires are negligible. So about the only thing than can cause rear tires to slide on a FWD vehicle is braking, and since the advent of ABS brakes, the rear brakes can't lock up.

Spend your money on good front tires. As long as the rear tires have enough tread to be legal, they're fine.

MarkB_MI · Dec 11, 2017

FWIW, a trick to use on slick surfaces is to throw the transmission in neutral when going around a corner. This really helps with FWD vehicles, but it works on RWD and 4WD as well. Why does it work? Because with the transmission in neutral and your foot off the brakes, there is no longer any torque on the tires. Since the tires are free-wheeling, all of their traction is available for lateral forces: steering and skidding.

DR. EVIL · Dec 11, 2017

I bought brand new Firestone WinterForce winter tires about 8-9 years ago for my Volvo S40 front wheel
drive work car. Put brand new Bridgestone Potenza all seasons on the rear at the same time. Drove those
tires 11,000 miles in about 4 months that we had something over 100 inches of snow during that time. Only
time I drove my 4wd truck was one storm we got 16-18 inches in. Car got along great on snow and ice as long
as it wasn't dragging bottom. It was actually better in 3-4-5 inches of snow than the truck, but truck was
better in snow 6 to 12 inches deep, above 12 inches even it ran out of traction.

showcrop · Dec 11, 2017

(quoted from post at 10:27:04 12/11/17) Eh, not really.

On front-wheel drive vehicles, the front tires handle all of the acceleration force and (because of weight distribution) the majority of the braking force. A tire will not slip sideways until it breaks traction, either from acceleration, braking or lateral forces. And under most conditions, the lateral forces on rear tires are negligible. So about the only thing than can cause rear tires to slide on a FWD vehicle is braking, and since the advent of ABS brakes, the rear brakes can't lock up.

Spend your money on good front tires. As long as the rear tires have enough tread to be legal, they're fine.

FWIW, a trick to use on slick surfaces is to throw the transmission in neutral when going around a corner. This really helps with FWD vehicles, but it works on RWD and 4WD as well. Why does it work? Because with the transmission in neutral and your foot off the brakes, there is no longer any torque on the tires. Since the tires are free-wheeling, all of their traction is available for lateral forces: steering and skidding.

Mark B your posts are just so far out that I have to respond. If you were to take any instruction in competitive driving, you would be taught early on about the need to POWER through turns, why? because as long as the force pushing the car ahead is substantial the effect of the sideways force is reduced. Following your suggestion here could get someone killed!!! You really should look into this very soon.
Then the idea that sideways forces on rear tires is negligible is in further out there! How could that possibly be??? The force on front and rear tires comes directly from the weight that either is carrying. More weight on the front puts more lateral force on the front. and the same in the rear. Moment arm comes into play as well. If you put traction weight behind the rear axle it provides more downward force on the tires. but it also adds more lateral force, which will cause the tires to break sideways traction more readily. Watch some you tube videos and observe how cars break traction in the rear and spin out.

Mark B your statements are very very dangerous. Someone could believe you and get killed. Please look this up or consult a driving school instructor.

Brendon-KS · Dec 11, 2017

One can find many articles and reports from independent tests on the internet to support your
statements here. The rear tires contribute greatly to a vehicle's stability, regardless of which
wheels are driving.

Here's a link to a side-by-side comparison.
Good tires on front or rear?

MarkB_MI · Dec 11, 2017

>Mark B your posts are just so far out that I have to respond. If you were to take any instruction in competitive driving, you would be taught early on about the need to POWER through turns

The first thing they teach you in motorcycle class is that your tires have only X amount of traction. You can budget that traction between turning, accelerating and stopping. You can stop fast and you can turn fast, but if you try to do both at the same time the bike goes down. Likewise, when you accelerate during a turn, you use up some of that traction available for acceleration. Most of the time you it's not a big problem to accelerate out of a turn, because the tires have enough traction in reserve to handle the acceleration force. But hit the throttle coming out of a turn on a slick surface and the bike goes down.

This is all basic physics. The tires on a four-wheeled vehicle have to obey the same laws of physics as does a motorcycle. The front tires on a FWD vehicle have to do all the acceleration, almost all turning, and most of the stopping. Yes, in a turn the rear tires do have to generate some centripetal force, but since they don't do any acceleration and little braking, they have much more reserve traction than the fronts. Which is why the front tires on a FWD almost always break traction first. Taking the transmission out of gear and staying off the brakes will give the front tires the same reserve traction as the rears, and the car will go around the corner instead of running off into the ditch.

That said, it seems manufacturers do recommend putting the best tires on the rear. But their major concern is hydroplaning. I mistakenly assumed you were referring to winter driving, where the main problem is snow and ice, not hydroplaning. And at any rate, nobody should be driving on tires front or rear where the tread is too thin to avoid hydroplaning.

jimg.allentown · Dec 12, 2017

News flash:
Regardless of what tires are on the vehicle, front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, 4X4, or AWD, there is NO SUBSTITUTE for a competent and cautious driver.

showcrop · Dec 12, 2017

(quoted from post at 06:58:36 12/12/17) News flash:
Regardless of what tires are on the vehicle, front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, 4X4, or AWD, there is NO SUBSTITUTE for a competent and cautious driver.

NO NEWS FLASH! It is what is called "common knowledge". It is something that "goes without saying". Sorry, something that everyone already knows does not meet the definition of news,

.

oydnar · Dec 12, 2017

the first thing I will say it that all season radials ARE NOT snow tires as much as tire manufacturers tell you that is all you need.

If you live in snow country, put some Nokian Hakkapeliittas on all 4 corners regardless what you drive,

jimg.allentown · Dec 12, 2017

But is it really common knowledge? That seems to be the one thing that never enters the discussion. So, in reality, it may actually be news to some.

hd6gtom · Dec 13, 2017

Congratulations to all of you you realize all season tires are not snow tires. You are 100% right. I
recommended snow tires to every gal that had to drive any distance on winter roads. If I was still in the
tire business I would do it today. Today's snow tires are so much better than they were 30 years ago.

Tire Safety

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