I have older two cylinder JDs , like the 730, 720D, 620, 60, A, and B and I can replace the brakes in a few hours and most other things with little to no effort. I am in the market for a newer 4 cyl tractor like a Ford 5000, o Massey 175, or a another JD like the 2020 or 2510, but when I read that you have to remove the whole axle and wheel just to replace brake pads on the 5000 or on the 2020, now I am a little scared to get into the newer 4 cyl tractors. Is there a 4 cyl tractor at 50 to 70 HP that is easy to work on like those old JDs?
- Thread starter chas036
- Start date
I have older two cylinder JDs , like the 730, 720D, 620, 60, A, and B and I can replace the brakes in a few hours and most other things with little to no effort. I am in the market for a newer 4 cyl tractor like a Ford 5000, o Massey 175, or a another JD like the 2020 or 2510, but when I read that you have to remove the whole axle and wheel just to replace brake pads on the 5000 or on the 2020, now I am a little scared to get into the newer 4 cyl tractors. Is there a 4 cyl tractor at 50 to 70 HP that is easy to work on like those old JDs?
shaun wallace
Well-known Member
Tractors like 5000 Ford have internal wet brakes. Run in oil and will last 10,000 hours or more.
steve_in_mo
Well-known Member
Farmall 400/450.
The Massey Fergusons like you mentioned.
The Massey Fergusons like you mentioned.
ptfarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- San Antonio, Tx
The 4 cylinder tractors like Ford 5000 all usually have the inboard brakes where you have to remove the whole axle housing to service the brakes. The brakes will last a long time if you can try to use them as little as possible by idling the engine down to slowdown the tractor as much as possible.
You could "build your own" tractor that is easy to work on.
For example what I would do is find a MF135,or MF150 with drum brakes, and use the transmission, rear axle from it. Then take everything forward of the transmission (including the shifter, and steering box) from a 175, and bolt the engine to the transmission (same bell housing bolt pattern). In the UK there has been some that swapped a 4 cylinder Perkins diesel into a 135, and it seems to work with no problems.
The 135 with a engine from a 165, they made the hood, and drag links longer, looks like it came from the factory that way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m42MWAhZhxk and they seem to work it hard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MazPG_Wfr9o
That's probably more than you want to do, but it could be done.
You could "build your own" tractor that is easy to work on.
For example what I would do is find a MF135,or MF150 with drum brakes, and use the transmission, rear axle from it. Then take everything forward of the transmission (including the shifter, and steering box) from a 175, and bolt the engine to the transmission (same bell housing bolt pattern). In the UK there has been some that swapped a 4 cylinder Perkins diesel into a 135, and it seems to work with no problems.
The 135 with a engine from a 165, they made the hood, and drag links longer, looks like it came from the factory that way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m42MWAhZhxk and they seem to work it hard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MazPG_Wfr9o
That's probably more than you want to do, but it could be done.
A series one or two Big Bud. Everything from the radiator back to the transmission is mounted on a skid unit that you can slide out if you need to work on any of it or replace any of the components. There is enough room underneath them between the frame rails to stand up and grease or work on the drive lines. Hood flips up and so does the cab.
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
Our Farmall C seems very easy to work on, but haven't had to work on many.
I was going to suggest the Farmall 450 also. Hardest pulling 55 hp tractor I've ever seen. Live hyd, live pto, power steering, many had Fast Hitch. A 560 would be similar, but a late model 706 diesel with Nuess 310 diesel or 756 would be my choice over the 560 but after the 450.
Texasmark1
Well-known Member
My 2000D 4 cyl and 3000D Fords are probably as easy as it can get. However, they never/seldom break so it really doesn't matter. Really couldn't ask for a better piece of machinery in either. 3000 with 8 speed and Live PTO, PS, is probably my favorite.
From my experience it is the JD model 750 compact. Other than oil changes, a couple of batteries and a fan belt it has not needed any work done to it in all these years !
I spent a lot of years working on ALOT of 2 cyl.s and they are not that easy to work on, other than the mentioned brakes and clutch. Pulling the hood and radiator for instance is a MAJOR operation.
I spent a lot of years working on ALOT of 2 cyl.s and they are not that easy to work on, other than the mentioned brakes and clutch. Pulling the hood and radiator for instance is a MAJOR operation.
tomstractorsandtoys
Well-known Member
It is all in what you get use to. Most 2510's have never had the brakes worked on and if they have been done they will more than likely never need it again. I work on 2510's, 3020's and 4020's and have very few issues with working on them if you have the proper Deere service books. I do not enjoy working on a two cylinder. For me they are not easy to work on. I need to tear into a 620 pto that does not stop and after looking at the book I would much rather do the same to a 3020. The Ford tractors never impressed me but lots of people have and like them. Years ago the local dealer never overhauled any they always put complete new engines in them as he said the engines were not built to rebuild. I am sure many have been and are rebuilt with good results but this was the opinion of a large Ford dealer. As far as tractors go you are either going to make payments on a new one or buy some parts and do some repairs on an older one. Tom
I guess I would agree with you, I can have most things done on a 2 cylinder befor I got a newer one's apart.
It is true on some of the older 2 cylinders hood is a pain to get off but how often do you need to do that?
I've gotten radiator off A & a 630 tractor in 2.5 hours but again ya don't have to do it often. Did a 530 this
past year That had sat out for 20+ years it was a tad tougher dew to rusted bolts.. Changing the Core's takes
some time. But if you have all the parts needed you can hone the cylinders replace the rings & do a valve job
in no time at all.
It is true on some of the older 2 cylinders hood is a pain to get off but how often do you need to do that?
I've gotten radiator off A & a 630 tractor in 2.5 hours but again ya don't have to do it often. Did a 530 this
past year That had sat out for 20+ years it was a tad tougher dew to rusted bolts.. Changing the Core's takes
some time. But if you have all the parts needed you can hone the cylinders replace the rings & do a valve job
in no time at all.
tractorguy2
Well-known Member
Does not really matter. All tractors have easy and difficult repairs.
I have worked on many two cylinders. Other than the clutch there is nothing easy. Last winter I spend three hours removing the hood from a 630.
I like the old Case D and S series. The brakes come off in minutes. No over head steering rod to fight when removing the head. The hood comes off with just four or six bolts. Clutch runs in oil.
I would stay away from Massey Ferguson, Ford thousand series, and John Deere.
If I wanted a tractor made in the 60's. I would look for an Oliver 50 series.
I have worked on many two cylinders. Other than the clutch there is nothing easy. Last winter I spend three hours removing the hood from a 630.
I like the old Case D and S series. The brakes come off in minutes. No over head steering rod to fight when removing the head. The hood comes off with just four or six bolts. Clutch runs in oil.
I would stay away from Massey Ferguson, Ford thousand series, and John Deere.
If I wanted a tractor made in the 60's. I would look for an Oliver 50 series.
Can split a 4020 for a clutch job in about 2 hours . Can have the final drives off to brakes in about an hour . You can split the front off to do a hydraulic pump or pull the engine in about the same amount of time it looks to me like you haven?t worked on many tractors
Ooh yes for me it is defiantly a 4020,,if the parts are laying there ready I can change the clutch and be ready to go out the door in less that 2 hours,,and like the old man said it's not bragging if you can do it .. I Baby set about 200 4020's around here so I get lots of practice... All the bolts and lines are placed for easy access on them,,and of course all my "other Brand" friends tell me that it's a good thing....
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
My 2 Oliver 1550 tractors are about as easy to work on as it gets,brakes are easy to get to,so is the PTO clutch.Engine pulls out without having to 'split' the tractor because of the tube frame set up.
The Dukester
Well-known Member
I think I'd agree with Dr. Evil. I've worked on several H and M Farmalls doing engine overhauls, brake repairs and transmission repairs and found then pretty straightforward and as easy or easier than any other old tractors. Two cylinder John Deere's are simple enough, but you have to take them apart in a sequence starting with pulling the steering wheel. Ever change the muffler on a styled A or B? No, not using tin snips......the right way......And then how about the rear axle seals? Yeah, just loads of fun........
Robert Major
Well-known Member
Hi SV
I'd say the hyd/trans lube systems on a lot of Deeres are ok while they work, yeah that filter on the ford might be a pain. But having tried to diagnose a Deere system with guages and flow meters, when 4 mins into the testing proceedure the oil vanishes and everything goes dead. I'd rather change the Ford filter and the systems a lot simpler to fix and diagnose .
It says something when a JD guy like Tim s will reply in a post about Deere hyds on some models. "The best thing to do is fix it good with dynamite" ! Every tractor has it's issues from electrics to hyds and other things between there . I was going to say similar to somebody else the best tractor for modern farmings not been invented yet" The one that only needs servicing and never goes wrong"
Regards Robert
I'd say the hyd/trans lube systems on a lot of Deeres are ok while they work, yeah that filter on the ford might be a pain. But having tried to diagnose a Deere system with guages and flow meters, when 4 mins into the testing proceedure the oil vanishes and everything goes dead. I'd rather change the Ford filter and the systems a lot simpler to fix and diagnose .
It says something when a JD guy like Tim s will reply in a post about Deere hyds on some models. "The best thing to do is fix it good with dynamite" ! Every tractor has it's issues from electrics to hyds and other things between there . I was going to say similar to somebody else the best tractor for modern farmings not been invented yet" The one that only needs servicing and never goes wrong"
Regards Robert
neverfear
Member
- Location
- South Central MN
Or still under warranty!
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
Those two aren't bad but they both still have that darned wishbone front axle.
Makes them kind of a pia to split cause you gotta mess with twin steering arms and the radius rods. More work if you have power steering. You also have to mess with the lines to the hyd pump if you split one. Putting points in a 3 cyl gasser aint fun either. Diesel starters too.
I think the 3 cyl 4000 is far easier than either of those to split and to work on in general. I still like them tho. They are great old machines.
Makes them kind of a pia to split cause you gotta mess with twin steering arms and the radius rods. More work if you have power steering. You also have to mess with the lines to the hyd pump if you split one. Putting points in a 3 cyl gasser aint fun either. Diesel starters too.
I think the 3 cyl 4000 is far easier than either of those to split and to work on in general. I still like them tho. They are great old machines.
Destroked 450
Well-known Member
- Location
- Harned, Ky
Yes Ford Hydraulics where a little slow until the -010 series but have very few problems.
For a little more one can move up to a 5600 or 6600 with external hydraulic filter that's easier to chance than the one in the belly of a JD.
How hard it is to replace brakes is irrelevant, the question should be how good are the brakes and how well do they hold up.
The inboard wet disc brakes on 4000 and larger Fords is a excellent braking system that will last for thousands of hours.
My 67 5000 and 69 4000 still have the original brakes with plenty of adjustment, last time I adjusted the brakes on my 4000 was in 2000, adjusted the ones on the 5000 a couple years ago, adjusting nuts where full out making me think it was the first time they where ever adjusted.
For snow removable I'd want something with a cab like a 5610 or 6610 but that adds a good bit to the price, cab also makes them harder to work on.
I am firmly with Tim S, the John Deere 4020 and other New Generation like tractors are well engineered to be serviced. I split more than one 2510/2520 in an hour. Going together takes me longer as I am pretty detail oriented. The bigger question is do you know what you're looking at when it is apart. This would be true for any tractor. My challenge is always to evaluate a part as to if it is good or needs replacement. I am getting better, the JD manuals are pretty good about giving critical specifications.
By the way, brakes are not an issue either on the New Generation. I have done a couple now and there are many ways to approach the job. Like was said, oil immersed last forever, and if you have to replace them they will last for the rest of forever, ha, ha.
I know nothing about the other models mentioned here so I cannot comment. That Ford 5000 sure is popular as it keeps coming up.
No matter what tractor you have you should have a service manual. It also helps if that tractor has parts available, ha, ha.
Paul
By the way, brakes are not an issue either on the New Generation. I have done a couple now and there are many ways to approach the job. Like was said, oil immersed last forever, and if you have to replace them they will last for the rest of forever, ha, ha.
I know nothing about the other models mentioned here so I cannot comment. That Ford 5000 sure is popular as it keeps coming up.
No matter what tractor you have you should have a service manual. It also helps if that tractor has parts available, ha, ha.
Paul
tractorguy2
Well-known Member
Oliver's are not any harder to find parts for than any other brand.
We had both Oliver's and Deere tractors. Dad will tell you Oliver is the better green tractor.
We had both Oliver's and Deere tractors. Dad will tell you Oliver is the better green tractor.
farmer boy
Well-known Member
The one in warranty is the correct answer. A lot of the newer Deere's are really good tractors to work on. Like the 100 and 10 series. No need to split a lot of them to do a tranny job on them. And they don't need a lot of work anyways, so even better. Every tractor has it's good and bad points. some have a lot of bad points, and some have a lot of good points.
Texasmark1
Well-known Member
I never had a 4000. Had a 4600 from Europe with the narrow rubber rears, OEM canopy. Don't remember doing anything to it other than changing fluids and filters, putting some "snake oil" in the fluids and working it hard to get rid of the "sitting up for a long time" parasites which it did. So I can't comment. It was a lot bigger tractor, like row crop. Nice middle weight tractor but I had 7 at the time and neighbor needed one. Seemed that the 4600 was just right for him so he got it.
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