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Welder

rusty6

rusty6

Well-known Member
Location
East central Sask.
Just wondering if any of you do any welding on light metal (like old car fenders)? I've done stick welding with the old 180 amp SR for 40+ years and know it's limitations when it comes to light steel. Burned plenty of holes even at low amps and its just not made for the job. I know mig is what most people recommend but I'm looking at a cheaper option. These little 110 volt stick welders are on sale pretty cheap now. Might be just what I need. Or not? I'm looking for answers based more on actual experience than opinions.
Arc 70 Welder
 
Sheet metal will always be easier with MIG, and typically give a much nicer job than stick could ever turn out. Think about it, the smallest stick rod I know made is 3/32 or .09375. You can typically get MIG wire as small as .023.

That said, think about the difference in the amount of heat needed to melt a .09375 diameter electrode -vs- one more than 3 times smaller. With the thin metal the ability to use the lower heat needed for the smaller diameter and still join the pieces makes doing so much easier.
 
The 110 volt stick welders are NOT something enjoyable to weld with. I even have a 110 volt gas welder and it is tough to weld with even on thin metal. I have owned both stick and wire 110 volt welders. My recommendation is to not waste your time and money on one of them.

A good 220 MIG welder can easily be adjusted down to weld thin sheet steel much more easily.
 
Several years ago before MIG and TIG became affordable for small shops, I ran a welding shop employing ten welders. The shop was equipped with 3 old 3phase powered DC machines and later a couple wire feed machines. I had about a dozen small Lincoln AC machines. About half of our work was 14ga for tanks and trash containers and also some repair work. One worker could weld 20ga water tight with a 1/8 6011 rod at 90 amps AC. He is the only person I ever had who could do this. His welding skills were the only good qualities he had. Some problems keeping him out of jail and sober. It can be done!
 
Save your money. There are much better options for not much more money. I agree with the others who suggest a mig welder but with the caveat that mig with gas only works well where the wind can't blow the shielding gas away. If you need to weld a lot outside, the flux core may be better but the weld won't be pretty.
Mig welders on Ebay
 
For sheet metal, I second a small gas MIG. But not fluxcore run in same machine. The web is your friend, I suggest weldingweb dot com, as this subj has been discussed there a lot, though you'll have to ignore the TIG recommendations if you want to keep cost low.
 
Don't waste your money.Use it for a down payment on a Hobart Handler or =. Don't let anyone talk you into a gasless MIG either. Quality work requires quality tools.
 
40 years ago I worked in a sheet metal shop and we had a stinger whip that we used with our dc machine. It was a tig set up or heli acr. Had a bottle of argon gas for the shield. It was a easy way to weld sheet metal and made a neat weld. If you have a dc machine this might be the cheapest route to take. Most of the guys that could weld could weld 18 ga metal without much trouble.

Sorry I don't have any info other than that.
 
I was welding on a school building with a DC machine. At that time I could weld 18 ga decking with a 6011 5/32 rod as that is all I had with me. It can be done.
 
Thanks for all the replies so far. I was hoping to hear from somebody who has successfully used one of these little 70 amp 110 welders to weld light metal like car bodies. Consensus seems to be that nobody has. I already have the old SR 180 amp stick welder which has handled all the heavy welding I've needed to do for over 40 years. But it is almost impossible to weld light metal without burning through. Even at amperage so low it is hard to strike an arc. Yes, mig probably is the best but I hate the idea of having to fool around with gas tanks and tank rentals, wire feed, etc. So much simpler to just grab a welding rod, flip the switch and go to welding anytime I need to weld light steel. I've still got the carbon arc torch for brazeing with the old SR but its near impossible to buy carbons for the torch anymore. Results with the torch and brass on sheet metal were fair to mediocre. Usually too hot and warped the metal.
 
Best 110 machine I ever owned was a Lincoln SP-125 plus. .023 70s6 wire and 75/25 argon/ co2 mix. Traded it off but regret it.
Currently looking for a used one in decent condition.
 
I got 5# of 1/16th inch .0625" 6013 rod from my local welding supply shop. I could run a nice bead with my 200A AC Buzzbox at about 25-30 amps welding 20 ga steel, .040" thick. I tried welding with my Miller Matic 185 with .030" wire and kept blowing holes thru it.

I bought a Miller Dynasty 200 TIG welder. My plan was to learn how to buttweld two beer cans together. It's said that TIG is a lot like gas welding. I brushed up on my gas welding and really worked trying to learn TIG. SON got much better than me so I gave him the Dynasty.
 
I just bought a box of carbons and see that more are available on Ebay. The correct search term is "gouging carbons".
 
The stick welding process itself is the limiting factor when welding the thin metal. Stick process is simply not the best process for welding thin stuff. Going to a smaller power source is not gonna help at all. No different than turning a big machine down.

There is a reason the Mig process and the tig processes were invented.
 
Provided your current welder can be turned down quite a ways, get some 1/16 6013 rods and give it a try.

Other option is gas welding. Piece of steel wire and the proper size torch tip and have at it.
 
My experience jives with "welding man". I am a self taught welder from the farm and don't weld enough to get really good at it but my experience says MIG with gas hands down. Once your welder is set up it is just as easy to use as your grab and weld stick. I know nothing about TIG. Go get a nice MIG on sale and you will not look back.

My two cents.

Paul
 
My son bought a 70 amp AC machine cheap. I had a box of 6013 1/16" diameter. I watched him struggle to get anything done with sheet metal. I though I could do better after he gave up, and all I did was teach him some new language that welders use when they burn a hole through.

Best I have been able to do is 14 gauge, and a water-tight, decent looking seam required a DC welder, good fit-up of the pieces, and very clean conditions. (no paint, rust, etc.) Anywhere I could, I made a lap joint or a T-joint.

Don't send a dime on the 70 amp AC machine.
 
The problem with welding sheet metal with a torch is the metal gets too hot and warps from the metal expanding. Once that happens, it's nearly impossible to get it flat again.

That's the advantage of MIG welding. It keeps the heat more localized so the metal doesn't warp.
 
(quoted from post at 08:10:30 11/23/17)

Don't send a dime on the 70 amp AC machine.
Click to expand...

Been watching video reviews on youtube on these little welders. Seems that DC is better than AC from what I've see so far.
They keep advertising these little 110 AC welders so somebody must be buying them.
 
For sheet metal mig is the deal for sure, and make sure it has gas. You are much better off to buy a use name brand like Lincoln and Miller than the cheaper brands new. And if all yourwelding is sheet metal a 110 will work good as long as it is a quality machine. I had a Lincoln sp120 foor years and used it a lot for light jobs.
 
The old rule of thumb was not to use a rod bigger diameter than the parent material, so even the 1/16 rod would be too much for car fenders. Look for a decent used mig welder if you don't want to spend the $$ on a new one. Or have someone with one do the welding for you.
 
Not a welder here but learning. I agree with others as to go with brand name MIG with gas.

As only have 110V in garage I have a Hobart Handler with .030 flux core used on 1/8 to 3/8 steel outside. Drive roller good for .023, .030 and .035 wire both gas and flux-core.
Got a 110V that a buddy got from the MAC tool man years ago that he used building several street rods including sheet metal. It's running .023 with 75/25 for inside. Drive roller good for .023 and .030.
Buddy been gone over 12 years and his wife gave me the welder last year.
From what little I have learned if I can weld with a MIG anybody can weld with one.
Someday will get 220V in garage as have FIL's Grainger model AC/DC stick welder running.
 
My dad had a 120VAC welder, I saw him fight with welding thin metal, would not want to go to that much work, get a wire welder.
 
Not to pile on, but if you think you were frustrated before, wait until you get a 70 dollar buzz box.

You've got some nice videos on you tube- sign up to get paid by the click, and you'll soon have saved up enough for a used MIG.
 
(quoted from post at 11:12:54 11/23/17) Those little rods burn away so fast I can't feed them fast enough. I use 6011 1/8 on 16 ga with no problem.
Click to expand...
6011 1/8 rods are the hottest rods I use and they are great for burning through metals. Which is exactly what I would not want on sheet metal. More likely a 6013 or 7014 for me. I tried a little on this old truck grille this fall and managed to stick some cracks together without burning right through. It was pretty close though and these old trucks had heavier metal back in the 1940s. I think by the 50s it was getting thinner and harder to weld without burning.
6619.jpg
 
I am a low experienced welder, my son happens to be a pro.
I have learned that the small ones, less then 125, are a waste of money...
Also needs a name like 'Lincoln'.
 
Hey Rusty -- dont waste Your money on a cheap piece of junk -save up for a wire welder with gas --and those fenders that need some work!! use the flux wire with the gas -- practice on your friends fender then do yours --good hunting !! Roy --- PS - the flux wire with gas on it makes for low temp. welding and makes beautiful welds -do 1/2 inch at the most in one time and move aways then come back--good luck Rusty
 
(quoted from post at 17:50:20 11/23/17) Hey Rusty -- dont waste Your money on a cheap piece of junk -save up for a wire welder with gas --and those fenders that need some work!! use the flux wire with the gas -- practice on your friends fender then do yours --good hunting !! Roy --- PS - the flux wire with gas on it makes for low temp. welding and makes beautiful welds -do 1/2 inch at the most in one time and move aways then come back--good luck Rusty
Click to expand...

Thanks Roy. I guess I'll quit trying to re-invent the wheel and stay away from the cheap little AC welder. I'll practice a bit with my brother's Mig and maybe get some advice from my nephew who is a trained car body repair man as well.
 
Hey Rusty -- dont waste Your money on a cheap piece of junk -save up for a wire welder with gas --and those fenders that need some work!! use the flux wire with the gas -- practice on your friends fender then do yours --good hunting !! Roy PS - the flux wire with gas on it makes for low temp. welding and makes beautiful welds -do 1/2 inch at the most in one time and move aways then come back--good luck Rusty
 
Arc welding sheet metal is extremely hard. You need to actually turn up the heat and move very fast . You may have a few burn holes. This makes it unsuitable for auto body type panel work. It could do a repair but anything that has to be finished and smoothed , not good.
 
Another vote for MIG. Don't bother with the 110VAC or DC welders. The electronics required to maintain a constant amperage under load just isn't there. It won't produce a decent arc.

I don't weld a lot, but when I start a project, I weld quite a bit at once. Having the MIG unit allows me to do most any type of metal, with almost any thickness. Body work is all MIG work, from 18Ga down to 26Ga. Just break down and get it. Yes, bottle gas is a bit of a hassle, yes it's more expensive but if you need to do it, then do it.
 

The 110v welders are toys far as I've seen. There are decent MIG units out there for not a lot of money, 220V units. It's the only viable option in the line you're speaking of unless you want to do a lot of grinding and filling.

If you really want to stick weld light gauge stuff then get some fresh rod as small as you can find and practice till you get the hang of it. Some people used copper backing plates back when that was our only option.
 
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