Value of timber in a land purchase

Has any one had some experience with how much money they received from a timber harvest? A property could be on the market in the next few years. It is mostly mature oaks from what I have seen from the roads around the property. I thought that if the harvest covered enough of the purchase price, I might consider buying it. I would then be able to rent out one of the two homes.

I know there are experts who can walk the property and estimate the value and make recommendations on what needs to be harvested and when, but I am not sure when I should contact them.
TY
SDE

Probably just on the north side of $100 a tree if you just want a halfway estimate. I just sold 56 red oaks for just over $7600.

I know in the state of Ohio you can get a state Forester to come & look at it with you. Don't know about your state but it might be worth looking. Keith

just be careful the so called expert don't tell his pal where and who the seller is and cut you out completely ,., aint no way to prove... randy is using a good rule of thumb .. 1991, i bought 140 acres 70 tillable ,the rest woods that had small poplar ,.nuthin , ready to cut,. within 10yrs, we had a nice harvest that netted us 17k ,.since then we have cut serveral times and my share come to over 65k +, there is still a lot of un touched maple, and BIG poplar that is ready to come out. to be honest , i dont do that good on row crops there as the averages run . one note . My Place Grows some of the fastest growing straight poplar in the state of indiana,according to the district forester ,, so your results could vary

There are several things you need to consider as well, like if you want to make a 10 year cut(can harvest again in 10 years), or a 20 year cut, or an everything of value cut. Hire a consulting forester, they get a percentage of the sale, but the guy I hired got me $8K over the local guy, so even after paying his fee I was WAY ahead. They will also be able to go through your woodlot with you and tell you which "scrub" trees you can remove to enable higher value trees to grow better. What he explained to me was there is only so much growth per acre, and it can be in many small stems, or fewer good ones.

I am in Oregon on 20 acres of old growth. If I needed to harvest the timber, primarily Doug Fir/Alder mix, first I would contact a local logging company and have them out to have a look and give me a real rough guess as to the value. Guess being the operative word. Guess is because they tend to rot from the inside out and the real amount of board feet won't be known until it gets to the mill.
Now if your neighbor gets wind of your plans, they just might bump the price to cover the timber value. Different timber companies take a different percentage of the cut. So, now the fun begins in contacting all the timber graders out there and see what they get for a percentage. If you have any neighbors who have trees chopped, they might be a good place to start.
Gotta run. bye.

Randy is fairly close for a VERY rough idea on timber, depending on the species, how straight, veneer, how many limb free logs, 14+ diameter minimum on the small end around here. I went and looked at timber for a buddy last fall, about 50/50 soft maple and red oak, a little white oak and hickory mixed in. 225 trees, some veneer, most very straight with no low limbs, but not very many over 18-20" diameter. I looked it over before the timber buyer got there and took a tally of the trees. I counted 221 trees in my count, and told him he's probably gonna be around 20-25,000 valuation. The first buyer offered 7900, I told him to tell him to get lost. Had 2 others come look, one gave a bid of 16,000, the other gave a bid of 19,000. The last one called back a week later saying he really wanted it, and would give 23,000 for it. My buddy decided he wanted me to cut it about 50 trees at a time to save on the tax hit he'll take. That's not my deal, but I'll cut it for him. Like I said though, species make a huge difference. Most mills around here will not even take black oak, not even for pallet wood, even if they are straight, nice trees. But, black walnut is always valuable. I cut some last year, one brought $1000 for the one log, the other brought $800 for one log. Those are the ones I like to cut. It's really hard to take a shot in the dark at timber value though without looking at it up close and personal. Seems like pulp wood was going for around 50 to 75 cents A TREE last I heard. Have multiple buyers look at it, they aren't all honest.

If the timber is good I am surprised the timber value is not figured in the price.
I have often seen land sell around here for XX per acre plus timber value.
This means you can buy the land with or without the standing timber.

Timber value is constantly fluctuating, so an evaluation at one point in time may not be realistic four months later. In any given area there are weekly newsletters etc that give the values for various species.

I sold 130 red oak maple and beech. I got $14,500 US. Veneer logs bring the most. Then good lumber and then what's left goes for skids and pallets.
I am in Ontario and the veneer logs went to New York State.

Cheers
Martin

Timber markets fluxuate. What its worth 6 months or a year from now, might be alot different than current market. Best bet is to talk to a local logger or saw mill owner. Ask for maximum and minimum figures that can be expected at any given time.Then you can hope for the high amount, but also know what the bare minimum you can expect. Keeping location on the hush hush quite side probly good idea. That way you don't get undercut by who you talk to. But that is also going to require that you know the quality of the standing timber. Just because a tree is old and big doesn't mean it is a valuable saw log. So when you explain this timber to someone, you will need to know what you are talking about. If I were you, I would consider buying this property by some other means. And just consider what you end up getting out of the timber as a bonus. And not be dependant on that to come up with the principal. It would be nice to buy property that will immediately pay for itself. But a guy also needs to be realistic on what can be expected.

Well I will second Randy saying about $100-125 per tree unless they will veneer. Even then you can double the value. I would NOT contact anyone now. Two reasons: The biggest being your do not have any claim to the ground right now and the second is show your interest now will make the price be higher. Most loggers will buy ground to log it and then sell the ground. So if you tip off one of them then your going to help create a bidding war on the ground.

Thank you for the replies. Yes, I was aware that a forester would be able to estimate the value and a plan for harvesting the timber. I also wanted to get an idea of what I was looking at, without getting anyone else involved at this point.
Years ago a college put some land up for sale, next to land owned by a BIG MN business family. The logger stripped it and then sold it to the millionaire for a million. The college sued the realtor.

Also keep in mind what the timber is 'worth' and what you'll actually get in dollars$ is two very different things.No industry I know of has more ways to cheat folks than
logging and saw milling.The best logger I know will give the landowner a price on cutting the timber,then cut the timber in a tract put it all in an area on site,sort it out as to species,size etc and get saw mills to come bid on it.Then he shows the bids to the landowner everything is up front.

be careful on how the land is being taxed and transferred. Some northern states have a forest reserve program that charges very nominal taxes BUT a percentage of the value of the timber is taken at timber harvest as a tax, if it's in one of these programs you may be liable for taxes on the timber at transfer of the land OR have to pony up a large chunk of the timber value at cutting. Also many states require certain things of CFR land, like you have to allow public access for hunting, I've known a few folks that bought land in CFR for recreational use only to find out as a landowner they have no more right to hunt their land than any other permit holder and to take it out of CFR they have to pay the taxes on the timber growth currently present.