I'm getting ready to start a garden. We bought this ground and built a house a couple years ago. The ground is shale and it seems it drains very well/fast and the only place moisture is retained is around the edge of the yard where there is a lot of shade from the trees. As far as when I put new yard in, the grass came in well and much easier in the shaded areas with much less sunlight. I know growing a vegetable garden is generally done in full sunlight, but I would I think in my situation it would work better in the areas that receive about half the sunlight. Would you agree? Opinions? Anybody else grow their garden in areas with half a days sunlight?
- Thread starter nrowles
- Start date
pete black
Well-known Member
Vegetable garden require sunlight, however they can
tolerate some late afternoon shade. It is best to plant
away from trees as trees will take up available
moisture and nutrients and the vegetable plant will
suffer; stunted and pale in color with little fruit
production. Additionally, morning shade is bad on
vegetable plants as the morning dew on the plants
increase the changes of diseases.
tolerate some late afternoon shade. It is best to plant
away from trees as trees will take up available
moisture and nutrients and the vegetable plant will
suffer; stunted and pale in color with little fruit
production. Additionally, morning shade is bad on
vegetable plants as the morning dew on the plants
increase the changes of diseases.
Crazy Horse
Well-known Member
I wish I had taken a photo of my garden this year ........ I planted a row of carrots where one end gets a
lot more sunlight than the other. And from one end to the other is progressively more shaded because of a
bug, bushy cedar shrub and the house next door. The carrots showed a perfect range of size from the sunny
to the shady end of the row, nothing surprising of course but good evidence of the effect of sunlight.
lot more sunlight than the other. And from one end to the other is progressively more shaded because of a
bug, bushy cedar shrub and the house next door. The carrots showed a perfect range of size from the sunny
to the shady end of the row, nothing surprising of course but good evidence of the effect of sunlight.
by definition-----
Full sun – Plants need at least 6 hours of direct sun daily.
Part sun – Plants thrive with between 3 and 6 hours of direct sun per day.
Part shade – Plants require between 3 and 6 hours of sun per day, but need protection from intense mid-day sun.
Full shade – Plants require less than 3 hours of direct sun per day
So, need to check on what your trying to grow. We have a heavily treed acreage, but can grow most anything. Just took a year to plot out where the sunny spots were at various times of the day and season. I think you can buy a cheap thing on line that will record sun hours too.
Full sun – Plants need at least 6 hours of direct sun daily.
Part sun – Plants thrive with between 3 and 6 hours of direct sun per day.
Part shade – Plants require between 3 and 6 hours of sun per day, but need protection from intense mid-day sun.
Full shade – Plants require less than 3 hours of direct sun per day
So, need to check on what your trying to grow. We have a heavily treed acreage, but can grow most anything. Just took a year to plot out where the sunny spots were at various times of the day and season. I think you can buy a cheap thing on line that will record sun hours too.
I should have mentioned in original post that we are very unfortunate with our well. We only get 1.5 pint per minute of water production. Yeah you read that right. So watering can be done but is very limited. I may just have to put in a drip irrigation to maximize my water usage.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
A little afternoon shade is good in mid Summer with really hot days,but will hurt you in the Spring because the ground will be slower to warm up so plant accordingly.Also if you have trees near your garden you need to sub soil as deep as you can to cut off the tree feeder roots as they will sap water and nutrients from your vegetables.Mulching and a high amount of organic matter in the soil will help retain moisture.
Garden in the sun. Well anyhow up here in Minnesota. Maybe it's different in Arizona, or wherever you are.
But here, garden and farm crops do poorly next to trees, they block the sun and steal moisture in mid summer.
Grass is a little different than a garden, grass will at times look better in shade, but can't compare grass to veggies on this, they have different
needs and different root structures.
Paul
But here, garden and farm crops do poorly next to trees, they block the sun and steal moisture in mid summer.
Grass is a little different than a garden, grass will at times look better in shade, but can't compare grass to veggies on this, they have different
needs and different root structures.
Paul
Where are you? Sounds like my brother's situation in SW Colorado (pretty near where Delta Red is from). You can gradually improve the soil (compost, manure, etc) and don't want the garden to be next to the trees.
The water situation is more troubling. Do you get significant rain? Do you have a cistern you store water in, or can you only use it at the rate you stated? Any opportunity for grey water usage in the garden? That's 270 gallons a day or about 200 gallons after two showers and flushing toilets. Could probably do a load of laundry and still water the garden if you don't have livestock to water.
The water situation is more troubling. Do you get significant rain? Do you have a cistern you store water in, or can you only use it at the rate you stated? Any opportunity for grey water usage in the garden? That's 270 gallons a day or about 200 gallons after two showers and flushing toilets. Could probably do a load of laundry and still water the garden if you don't have livestock to water.
I live in Central Pennsylvania. I think my soil drains so quick it just doesn't hold moisture well. I will stay away from the trees. I believe I will mulch it for now and do the drip irrigation to minimize water consumption. The 270 gallons per day was the rate when well was drilled. I should probably check it again to see what it is now. Maybe a vein opened up. I had them put a meter in line and we are only using about 200 gallons per day total. Well is 600' deep and we have a 110 gallon tank in the basement because we also had to treat for methane gas in the water. Messed up situation. So there is a lot of water on reserve.
gene bender
Well-known Member
organic material and sunshine are the keys to having a garden soil that will produce
kcm.MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- NW Minnesota
Wow, and I thought we had it bad getting only 2 gallons/minute.
As far as your water issues, you can get a water storage tank, and have a pump running constantly to fill it. Running a pump continuously is actually more energy efficient than the pump having to cycle often.
As for the garden and watering, use lots of mulch that is highly rated at helping to hold water.
Wow. When the well went bad and had to wait 3 weeks to drill new one, I was sucking water out of the ditch for the cattle and the house was
fed from 2000 gallons in the old cistern. Was a pain to suck up 270 gallon tote of water in 5 minutes from the ditch so the cattle had water for a
day, and get a cisternfull every week hauled in.
We are really blessed with water here in my part of MN, we have a hard time finding good gravel to pull it from, but 50 gallons a minute is
available down there anywhere from 150 to 400 feet. Getting out of the sugar sand to a good sampnd or gravel vein is the tricky part.
Couldn't imagine a 110 gallon tank of water being considered 'a lot' in this area.
Paul
fed from 2000 gallons in the old cistern. Was a pain to suck up 270 gallon tote of water in 5 minutes from the ditch so the cattle had water for a
day, and get a cisternfull every week hauled in.
We are really blessed with water here in my part of MN, we have a hard time finding good gravel to pull it from, but 50 gallons a minute is
available down there anywhere from 150 to 400 feet. Getting out of the sugar sand to a good sampnd or gravel vein is the tricky part.
Couldn't imagine a 110 gallon tank of water being considered 'a lot' in this area.
Paul
Janicholson
Well-known Member
In PA I would imagine there is between 35 and 45 inches of rain/snow. My suggestion is to capture at least the runoff from your roof/s into a sistern. It might cost a bit to bury a tank (preferably plastic or concrete), but the supplemental water might be a blessing for the entire living conditions. Potable water can be made from that supply with filtering and UV sterilization.
In the garden, I would maximize exposure to sun, and mitigate drainage with a sub layer of mixed clay. Push the soil off of 1/2 and put down the layer then do the other 1/2 . I live on sandy loam over gravel in MN and it also drains radically. Jim
In the garden, I would maximize exposure to sun, and mitigate drainage with a sub layer of mixed clay. Push the soil off of 1/2 and put down the layer then do the other 1/2 . I live on sandy loam over gravel in MN and it also drains radically. Jim
(quoted from post at 08:11:48 10/13/17)
Couldn't imagine a 110 gallon tank of water being considered 'a lot' in this area.
Paul
The 110 gallon tank wasn't put in because of the water flow. It was put in because it is part of the methane gas treatment. I was just noting that we do have additional water. I don't have any animals and only 1 child so our water usage is pretty low.
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