Private vs gubmint

I'm pondering something. The county animal shelter is closing as a government entity and is being taken over by Humane Society of Montcalm County. The dog catcher has lost her job as a county employee.

I suppose the county could give them the authority to sell dog licenses,even let them keep the money if they wanted to give them that gift,but can a private entity like that legally enforce a mandatory compliance saying that you have to have your dog licensed?

Probably depends on the laws where you are. Can't believe any government would willingly give up the money from the license.

The shelter never sold licenses did they? The law will still remain on the books. The County Treasurer will still sell licenses. The Police or Sheriffs will write citation for dogs without licenses. The shelter might require that you buy a license before you can adopt the dog.

Humane societies are often directly connected with animal control. If the transfer papers are written using examples from successful regional governments policies, it can work. The humane society may be able to hire the animal control officer, depends on salary etc. It might be comparable to selling fishing licenses at a bate shop. Jim

Where I'm at the county dog warden is pretty worthless in getting them to enforce the leash laws.
When I lived in the next county over had some strays running around so I called the dog warden. They told me I had to catch them and hold them before they would come out ! So then 1 time I had both of them trapped in my building on Friday. I called the warden. Warden said he could not come until Monday to get them ! What the F so I just opened the door and let them go ! No way I was going to keep them all weekend.
Other times the dogs were either mean or skittish so no way you could catch them. SSS method took care of problem.

My complaint here is the SPCA is contracted to investigate animal welfare. They are required to follow up on every complaint from the public however the public has the right to complain anonymously about anything. They were granted legal right to enter and search your property even if they can't see animals from the road.

Living on the edge of suburbia you get frequent and repeated complaints about nonsense such as livestock being outside in the rain or snow. Often the same person lodging the complaint over and over and there is nothing you can do to identify them or stop the SPCA members from entering your property.

I've been curious what would happen if you blocked them and asked for a warrant. All it takes is one time of them showing up when the water source has run empty by chance and you're in a world of fines and such.

Sounds like your county is cutting departments as state aid is cut and property taxes are capped. They can eliminate some services by handing them off to non-profit organizations. Most likely the county will still handle licensing and enforcement. The county sheriff will drop off animals at the Humane Society. If your sheriff's department is already overloaded, expect animal enforcement to be lax at best.

With all these animal do gooders and new Goddards law I was getting worried if they showed up at my place and saw our outside dog who seldom had water because for some weird reason would dump her bowl over all the time. I did end up finding a small sturdy bucket I could chain fast so it could not be dumped. And in the worst cold snowy weather she would be laying outside on the ground ! Never seemed to phase her as she made it to 15 or 16 ? years old before she passed away this spring.

Lower taxes with no loss of government services? What is wrong with that picture?

They were granted legal right to enter and search your property even if they can't see animals from the road.

Granted by who? County commissioners? That's a joke. The dog catcher here found out different and he had a badge,deputized I assume. I told the little dork who was taking a dog census to hit the road and I ended up getting a ticket in the mail. I took it to the animal control building,threw it on the dog catchers desk and told him the next time he wanted to know what I had on private property he'd better send a uniformed officer with a search warrant. He followed me home and started acting tough. He showed me some papers that showed what power he had,including entering private property without notice or a warrant. I contacted the State Attorney General's office and they said "You can be cited for having an unlicensed dog if the dog is visible from the road or the driveway.".

He went up the road to where a guy had ordered the census taker to the road too,acting tough again saying he was taking the dog. The land owner ordered him to the road. He didn't leave,but he called the Sheriff's office from right there. They told him to wait in the road. Tom told him again to get in the road. He wouldn't go. Tom went and got the backhoe and told him it was his last chance. He still wouldn't leave,so Tom picked up the back of his pickup and pushed it to the road. Of course the place was swarming with cops within minutes.

The county prosecutor called both of them in to his office. Tom had broken a tail light when he pushed the truck and had offered to pay for it. The prosecutor asked what happened. Then when he'd heard both stories he asked the dog catcher why he didn't wait in the road? He said "the land owner told you to wait in the road,the Sheriff told you to wait in the road and you wouldn't do it?". He said "I don't have to,I've got a badge". The prosecutor told them to get out of his office. Tom didn't even have to pay for the tail light.

The county commissioners can write up whatever rules they want to write up for somebody,but just like every other government agency,that darned pesky Constitution gets in the way.

But the person who owns the bait shop can't come out to the lake and demand to see your license and cite you for not having one.

No,they won't,no way. The county's broke,that's the reason they're closing the shelter.

Yes,they will,but can somebody from the humane society force you to comply I guess is what I want to know? For a private citizen to knock on your door and demand that you pay X$ a year or face consequences is illegal isn't it? I know if somebody tried to extort money from me that way,this might be the last place they try it. Ever.

I dunno about Michigan, but here in Maine the town collects the dog license fees. Got nothing to do with shelters or SPCA or whatever.

I suspect the township or county will still require the license and collect the fees.

Ya,they will here. They're giving an amnesty until the end of the month,but that's when animal control is closing the doors. They don't even have enough money in this county to provide a Sheriff's road patrol that amounts to spit. Are they going to put a cop on the road to check every house in the county where they suspect there's a dog without a license just to collect $15 each for every one they find that doesn't? This whole amnesty thing just sounds like a set up to me. "Come on in and pay for a license before we have no way to enforce it.".

OK

Sounds about right.

Technically, there's a "leash law" here, but getting someone to actually enforce it is a joke.

Usually I can run 'em off, but I've been forced to employ the Three S rule once.

I get an invoice after the first of every year from the county that I send back with a check for our dog licenses. I think it is some time in February. The invoice is for one dog with boxes to check if you have more dogs or no longer have a dog. The local Vet's office sells then thru January but I never think of it when driving by when they are on sale. Probly an old people service.

Good to see the government beginning to withdraw from places they don't need to be.

Here's a new wrinkle; my county just initiated lifetime dog tags. Don't have any more details other than a one-time 10$ fee. They experimented w/ selling through the vets which made it very convenient with a county office only open M-F, but dropped that.

Only with the legal authority granted by the county.

Wouldn't somebody at Humane Society have to be deputized or something? A civilian showing up here trying to tell me to pay up wouldn't be real welcome.

No,even better. Now we have some radical animal rights vigilante types running around thinking they have some kind of authority. That's some great improvement.

RR don't know if I get all this but here dog officer is a town, city employee or office. They have some authority but often need a sherif or trooper. Most towns contract with an animal facility which is private say to board an abandon sheep etc. Then it is adopted or put down there is a procedure for all this.

Randy read about how the Humane Society in New Jersey had just about as much authority to search your property as the police. They could come on your property without permission or a warrant. They even could carry guns and issue tickets. It was found out they where very corrupt and where charging innocent people. Cost many innocent people thousands in legal costs.

In my opinion your going to have trouble with them taking over. They WILL have power because they already do in other states.

From the Mid-Michigan Humane Society's web site:

"NOTICE- We are not a law enforcement agency and have no law enforcement abilities, we cannot assist with animal complains [sic] or cruelty investigation, all animal complaints/issues need to be directed to your local law enforcement."

<a href="http://www.midmichiganhumane.org/services.html">http://www.midmichiganhumane.org/services.html</a>

RR the only other thing I can add for you is what is called administrative law. Example of this would be pesticide inspector, code enforcement, truant officer. They usually have some legal status to do that particular job. How much authority would depend on the laws in your state in the areas of non compliance. They are generally non uniformed and can only deal within the confines of which they given jurisdiction. Another example would be a truant officer couldn't stop a car and write a speeding ticket. Breach of peace laws would be the example if one of these people came onto your property and you didn't object VS you objected and told him to leave. He would have to get a warrant or other legal protocol to enforce the laws. These procedures vary by state.

bingo ,,. you are going down a wrong road

Our country is run by the regulatory bunch now. That is like the photo speed traps where a private entity does the catching and fining.

Thanks Mark. I didn't realize they had a website. Great information.

I've heard a lot of stories over the years about different entities that "don't need a warrant to search your property". All I can say is that in every case I've seen played out so far, the theory is always proved wrong. A warrantless without the property owners permission is not allowed under the US Constitution except when exigent circumstances are allowed, ie- danger to a person or property, hot pursuit, etc. No one has the right to enter your property under the color of law without your permission, or rather, if you tell them not to. That doesn't mean a police officer can't enter your property and knock on your door to interview you, but he does have to leave if you ask him to.

Places where local laws run contrary to this, and there are probably many such places, need their citizens to join together and have competent authority fix the issue.

In Ontario many shelters are now run by the humane society. They have a lot of power here but seem to be accountable to no one. The largest humane society in the province has it right in their charter that anyone involved in animal agriculture or the processing business is ineligible to sit on the board of directors. This has been bad for some people already. What you are describing could be a problem if the citiots gain too much control.