How Did-Has Fiat Survived When Others Failed???

This post will be on a couple boards.....

I always associate Fiat with not the best cars, maybe that's unfair and outright wrong. But my impression is that Fiat leaves something to be desired.

However, it appears to me that just like JD, Fiat has survived building tractors for generations. I gather that New Holland and CaseIH are Fiat designed tractors and after the purchase of Ford tractors, globally Fiat renamed their world wide ag business from Fiat Agri to New Holland, the Fiat leaf symbol along with the New Holland logo.

Question is - how has Fiat ag survived for so long when others, i.e. IH, AC, Oliver, MM, MF and others have failed and suffered buyout or outright discontinuation of brand/manufacturing?

I've read about the massive $$$$'s Tenneco poured into CaseIH. How does Fiat float this boat - New Holland / CaseIH ?

Just curious.

Thanks!
Bill

Don't know about tractors, but the most fun car I ever owned was a Fiat 850 Spyder roadster. Strictly a two seater with a water cooled, 4 cylinder, rear engine. From the back, it resembled a Corvair. With a 4 speed stick shift, it felt and sounded like a Ferrari when you drove it.

I owned it back in the '70's when the national 55mph speed limit was in effect. 55mph was 3800 rpm, and it was redlined at 7000, Best part was, I was getting 34 mpg when everyone else was getting 14. The Fiat had only a 6.5 gallon gas tank.

My brother had one of those. I loved it. I had two small kids at the time so I got a 124 coupe. I had my foot in it all the time and it got 32 mpg. A lot of jokes were made about Fiat (Fix it again, Tony) but it's a well-managed company with a huge market.

It certainly helps that they are not headquartered in the US.

It is increasingly difficult to operate a successful business in the US.

Dean

How did FIAT survive, and the old American names fell away has to do with management, not the machines. In Europe FIAT is huge, trucks, heavy equipment, a lot of things besides tiny cars. Also it is a very old company, well over 100 years in business.

(quoted from post at 23:42:18 07/29/17) It certainly helps that they are not headquartered in the US.

It is increasingly difficult to operate a successful business in the US.

Dean

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Bingo!! There are those that are surviving but they were bettered prepared for the new generation of politicians.

You are 100% on that one.

The actual manufacturing is far overshadowed by the money handling.

How did Fiat survive? Very simple answer. Billions and billions of public dollars from the Italian gov't (and other nations too I'd bet) along with protective trade practices ensured their survival. At one time Fiat had Ford NH and Agco under their wing. They come, they go. While not everything Fiat makes is Yugo/Renault grade junk, they don't stick to anything long enough to cause me to offer much respect.

Obviously they had/have good smart management that are concerned about the long term for the company.I own right many Fiat branded tractors spanning probably 30 years of production
sold under several different brand names.The big thing that jumps out is they did not try to reinvent the wheel so to speak every time they came out with a new model,they stuck with a basic tried and true design and improved on it but no big engineering cost with every new model.And no big engineering disasters associated with completely new models.For example the mechanic that redid my 1973 Oliver 1365 4WD engine works at a New Holland dealership said the blocks in some NH tractors today were the same as my 1973 1365.The hydraulic and power steering pump set up is the same on the new NH tractors as my 1365.I needed a fuel lift pump on the 1365
he got one from the NH dealership that's used on new tractors today fit perfect.BTW Fiats for me have been good reliable tractors that are pretty operator friendly and also easy on fuel.
If I were to buy a new tractor it'd be a NH with the basic Fiat design.

Yes, We have stuck with our "hands off" attitude for all our industries, while opening our markets to them.
How has that worked out for American made industry? Auto, steel, chemical, electronics, clothing, textiles, shoes?????
We have half a strategy........

Bill,
If you were in business you would know that everyone wants to stick it to you.

In Indiana, you pay 3 times the appraised value of your commercial building for property taxes.

Electric company charges you more, a commercial rate.

Phone company charges a commercial rate.

You match the employees SS. You have to pay into both state and fed unemployment fund.

Commercial rates for insurance.

Health care costs.

Higher than many countries for corporate taxes on profit.

Higher labor costs, pension, health insurance for retirees.

Yes, it takes good management, in a country that is more business friendly.

Look at Illinois, my neighbor to the west. Their solution to the problem is MORE TAXES, MORE TAXES. AND MORE TAXES. People and companies are moving out. Some are moving to Indiana.

Another problem is factories can't find qualified people to fill $15-$20 positions. Look at arrest records, our jail is full of druggies that can't past drug test.

When labor costs and pensions get too high, business will sell out, change name, move to another town, get a tax abatement, and reduce labor costs. This has been going of for decades.

And some like Carrier are moving to Mexico.

I'm sure the list of reasons why companies fail is more detailed. Companies have to make a profit or go out of business.

Case used to make payloaders for government in Terre Haute. Union was told if you go out of strike, clean out your lockers, we are going out of business. Labor went on strike and Case moved out of town. Property sat empty for about a decade. Case never came back.
geo

And, like they did at Eastern Airlines, the Union will hail this move as a brilliant strategy.

I thought RE-NO (Renault) was French. Had friends in the '60's with a little 4 cyl that was super efficient and cheap to own.

Fiat has a few things going for it, they are the only Automobile manufacturer of any size in Italy, they own many of the smaller Italian car brands (Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Abarth) pretty much giving them the Italian automobile market, or at least until they started the EU. It is a public company, but much like Ford it's still family controlled so many of their decisions are made with more of a long term look than other public companies that focus more on quarterly and yearly profits. Their management seems to do better at change and realized years ago that if they didn't find ways to be competitive in markets outside of Italy and Europe they would not survive, hence the deal to tie up with GM that fell through and the eventual acquisition of Chrysler to get them back into the US market. On the tractor and implement business they where aggressive and acquired enough QUALITY manufacturers to insure they would be one of the last 3 or 4 standing and their heavy truck business now has the vestiges of Swedish and French Manufacturers in their products. Simply stated they have so far been successful in growing their business presence in the markets they choose to stay in and by growth and acquisition they have controlled enough of the market to remain viable. The fact that they are headquartered in a country that appreciates business and understands that businesses hire people and that creates growth and stability in their economy helps and that the Italian government understands the value of exports to their economy also has helped their success.

AS others have stated they have survived via good management practices and government subsidies. Their cars do not have a good reputation anywhere. They are making a slime profit with the AG line, the truck line is doing good but the car business is marginal with the exception of the Chrysler/Ram line. They sold 2.2 million Chrysler/Ram cars/trucks in 2016 in the US but less than 100,000 Fiat vehicles. There was record car sales last year in the US. Most companies sales were up 1-2%. Chrysler/Ram was flat and Fiat declined.

Fiat has said they will sell the AG division but have had no offers. 2 reasons for that. They are only willing to sell the whole AG division to one buyer. And the profit margin is slim. Something like 2%. Most companies looking to buy other companies look for about a 5% margin.

Rick

Fiat got some government subsidies? Old joke in Italy was government in France owned Renault, in Italy Fiat owned the government- and at that time nobody knew who owned VW. In Northern Italy the Fiat groups was the economic power and the family that owned it told the politicians what to do -or else. Southern Italy had Mafia families or camorra(? Naples) influenced politicians, Turin had the family that owned most of Fiat, army depended on Breda-SAFAT (? Society Ananomy Fabrication Armaments Torino) for many arms and that was basicly old Fiat Arsenal with different name and some new partners- as in military men that would contract for equipment. Tank factory could make bulldozers after WW2, make tank part for NATO designs, car engines or larger tank engines or some aircraft engines- nearest American example was Ford post war. RN

And so did the air traffic controllers that went out on strike. They were told they would lose their jobs, and that's exactly what happened.

I also had a 124 sedan. You couldn't kill that thing and fun to drive,great gas mileage during gas embargo.