No Till / Throw and Mow/Roll Questions

I'm not sure if you guys can help me at all since most of you are geared more towards true farming where I'm getting into food plotting for wildlife. Another forum got me on board with no till throw and mow/roll but aren't answering the questions I have. I recently had a couple acres cleared with a dozer so it is bare dirt. I put out buckwheat for now to get something growing quick. I have the following equipment. MF135 with loader bucket, bush hog, cultipacker, pull disc, pull seed spreader and pull sprayer with 14' boom spray width.

Here are my questions posted on the other forum:

1. The benefits of no till seem amazing. Why is this not used by everybody? Is it harder to do? Lower germination rate?

2. How does the cost of no till compare to conventional methods?

3. Is there any benefit to either rolling or mowing after seed has been broadcast into standing vegetation? It seems like some roll while some mow.

4. How are you guys broadcasting/spraying high vegetation? By hand spreader? I saw where someone uses their loader to raise the sprayer which I can do, but I can't do that with my pull behind broadcast spreader. Also, 3 pt spreaders wouldn't raise that high so I don't see how that could be any more beneficial.

5. Can a disc be used in any way for no till that is beneficial? Even if only used lightly.

1. I farm in TA very wet location, groundwater comes up out of the hills in spring when the 2-5 foot deep frost comes out and the snow melts.
We have a short growing season here in Minnesota. Today is the longest sunlight, we have very long sunny days, but in spring and fall the days
get really short.

There is little heat or sunlight in March early April. Ground is cold, water is cold, dirt is clay on top of clay for 130 feet.

We need heat and we need drying.

Only way to do that is some fall tillage, and again light tillage in spring. Get the little sun on the bare ground to warm it, and get the winds
blowing across it.

If we had lighter soil, or less moisture, or less deep frost maybe notill would work.

But we have the perfect storm of conditions where no till doesn't work at all 2 out of 5 years.

You tell me which year is which in fall, and then I'll notill when I can.

Notill is cheaper of course, but it can take a fairly expensive, well spec'ed planter to put in a crop in all the rough conditions the land needs to
get a perfect stand. Less passes, less machinery needed, so it's a good thing where it works, saves time and money. Just can't do it if it
prevents a person from planting until June or July.......

We don't use disks, they pack our clayish soils like a pavement. All field cultivators here, lift and stir, not pack.

Some folks have started rolling soybeans after seeding, it makes it easier to float the bean head over the field on fall. Seems to be some
negatives to rolling corn tho, we don't do that here.

Mowing would seem to be a negative after seeding, but we learn new things as we go?

Spraying, get a taller sprayer, the self propelled you can drive a small car under them they go through tasseling corn....

All of this can apply to feed plots, it only takes money.

Paul

Sowing seed into standing vegetation is a low germination operation. The reason I say this is this, cover crop planting is the thing to do now days, that is spreading seed into standing crops to get vegetation growing in the space between the rows late in the season. I'll not explain the "benefits" now. The farmer that has an 80 acre field across the road has sown cover crop seed on that field using aerial application (airplane). His success in my opinion has been dismal. I take my dog all over that 80 after crops are out, have cut wood on the back side so this is a not from the highway evaluation. Seeds must come into contact with soil to germinate and grow. My vote goes to MOW-Disk-harrow-spread seed and roll/cultipack. Get that seed down there where it has a chance to grow. jmho. worth exactly what you paid for it. gobble

I'm afraid the only way you're going to get any kind of stand at all, is you'll have to mow it down, and then either disk it before you sow it, or drill it with
a no-til drill. Overseeding just doesn't work that well, and unless you have gobs of seed to waste, it isn't cost effective. U of A did a nice study a few years
ago on overseeding pasture vs. drilling, and if my memory serves it seems like they got an 85 or 90 percent germination on the drilled seed and something like 30
to 40 percent on that seed that was broadcast. You might look it up and see, but like I said, you're not gonna be happy with it.

Tom and Paul both make good points, and I want to add this to what they've said: If you really want to go no-til, sell all your other implements with the
exception of your sprayer and your bush hog and go and get yourself a small no-til drill. Yes, a 6' drill is 9 grand and no, it won't pay for itself the first
couple years. But if you want anything close to a decent stand without using conventional tillage, then you're going to have to bite the bullet and do it.
Myself, I'm too tight to buy a $9K drill to do a little spot of ground. That's why I'm still using tillage methods and implements from 1950. The machinery is
paid for and the method works well. And if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

And as Tom said, this is my opinion, and its worth exactly what you gave for it.

Mac

Pretty much what I figured you guys would say. The no till food plotting guys seem pretty convincing but how effective is it. There are a couple older grain drills in my area for $500-$1000 and says they work, but how well. Would be a nice piece to have if it works.