12 vs 6

Revy_Ajax · Jun 8, 2017

Afternoon I am new to the Forum. We have an old Ford Tractor it is around a 1960 Jubile 600. The tractor has always rolled hard. We have been told that we could convert the tractor from a 6V to a 12V and we might gain a little more spunk. Would someone weigh in on this issue. It is my understanding there are kits available to do this conversion but I would like to know really what will be gained.
Regards
c

evilboweivel · Jun 8, 2017

clean all connections real well including ground at frame
replace cables with heavy ones for 6v
forget about doing the 12v conversion

fixerupper · Jun 8, 2017

First find out why it rolls hard on six volts. Small tractors like yours usually start OK on six if all of the connections are clean the cables are sized right and the starter is up to snuff.

steve_in_mo · Jun 8, 2017

Clean contacts, good connections, and big cables (not the type you buy for cars at Wal-Mart) will let the six volt system crank
that tractor. Old cables can corrode inside the lugs at the end and cause trouble. The starter switch or solenoid, whichever you
have, can get corroded or the contacts can get burnt and not conduct well.

The starter itself may need rebuilt. You can have that checked at the auto parts store. Better yet, take it to a
starter/generator/alternator specialist. Changing to twelve volts won't revive a bad starter.

Moonlite37 · Jun 8, 2017

I am cheap and have more tractors than batteries. I see the greatest advantage of 12 volts is the batteries may interchange one tractor from another.

Geo-TH,In · Jun 8, 2017

my 1953 Jubilee was converted to 12v before I bought it. They did not replace
the 6v starter. Big mistake in my opinion. I sheared off two starter drives
before buying a 12v starter. Some will say there are stronger starter drives.
My response to that is stronger starter drives will mean I shear off more teeth
on starter ring. I lost part of a tooth the last time a drive sheared off and I
have no plans to split tractor to replace starter ring. Some use a ballast
resistor and old 6v coil. I think it better to just replace coil with 12v coil.

I have no plans to ever go back to a 6v.

dr sportster · Jun 8, 2017

One thing an electrical system never does is add horsepower.

Mike M · Jun 8, 2017

Sure it does ,hit the starter while pulling it down ! LOL.

Revy_Ajax · Jun 8, 2017

(quoted from post at 12:23:44 06/08/17) Sure it does ,hit the starter while pulling it down ! LOL.

hanks for all the input. From the sounds of thing. First things first is to clean up connections, grounds, new cables. Then get the starter checked out. After that solenoid/starter switch.
If problem persists...... I will be back...
Regards

c

gene bender · Jun 8, 2017

First get the starter checked out mite need some new brushes and bearings.

old · Jun 8, 2017

First thing you should do if figure out what you have for sure that away you can ask question and know what it is which will help you and help us help you. Jubilee was made i n1953 ONLY. A 600 series was made from 1955 to 1957 and in 1958 they made the 601 series till 1962. The way you figure out what you have is just below the battery box on the left hand side you will see the starter. Just aft of the starter will be 2 bolt holes and right above those bolt holes will be the model number and the serial number. If it is a 600 series and has a 4 speed the model number should be 640. But if it has a 5 speed it could be a 650 or 660.
As for 6 or 12 volts every thing I have is converted because it is cheaper to maintain. But a 6 volt system has and does work and has for decades if things are kept up well like good battery good connections and good heavy duty battery cables not auto type #2 cables which do not work on 6 volt systems you need 0 or 00 cables

Dean · Jun 8, 2017

Agreed, George.

Operating a 6V starter from a 12V source puts forces upon the starter/drive/ring gear that are well above design specs.

Depending upon the design of the starter and starter drive such forces will eventually lead to failure of the weak link(s).

On some tractors, e.g., Fergusons, Farmalls, the starter nose cone is one of the weak links. I've seen several broken nose cones on Fergusons and Farmalls. All had been converted to 12V while leaving the 6V starter in place.

A close friend of mine who rebuilt starters, generators, alternators, etc. for nearly 60 years said that his tractor starter business ramped up considerably during the antique tractor craze a few years ago once folks started converting to 12V and nose cones, starter drives, ring gears, etc. started failing.

Dean

Geo-TH,In · Jun 8, 2017

Dean,
After chipping a tooth, I fished out about a dozen previous broken starter drives pieces form bell housing. That convinced me it's madness not to buy a 12v starter.
geo

rlp in Co. · Jun 8, 2017

Sounds like the starter is draging,; the armature
rubbing against the field. You can press the old
bushing out and turn it 180 degrees around and
press it back in. Wala! Good for another 10 years.
I'm not tight, just because I squeak when I walk
don't mean nothing!

oldtanker · Jun 8, 2017

(quoted from post at 10:45:07 06/08/17) Afternoon I am new to the Forum. We have an old Ford Tractor it is around a 1960 Jubile 600. The tractor has always rolled hard. We have been told that we could convert the tractor from a 6V to a 12V and we might gain a little more spunk. Would someone weigh in on this issue. It is my understanding there are kits available to do this conversion but I would like to know really what will be gained.
Regards
c

What's to be gained? LOTS! Cheaper batteries, easier to find a new charger when needed, better starting and most important a much more reliable charging system! I have 4 tractors here that were 6 volt from the factory. None are now! I busted one starter drive on one of my fords.

Rick

Hobo,NC · Jun 8, 2017

It was born to be converted and one of the EZ ones to do.

rustred · Jun 8, 2017

im not even going to get into this, but i do know the 6 volt system has worked well and still does if it is maintained. i know i will not have a 12 volt conversion. starter drives and ring gears do not like it.if the starter needs an overhaul dont see throwing 12 volts at it fixes the problem.
if you want 12 volts make it a true 12 volt system.

69stang · Jun 8, 2017

If turning over slow is the only reason for the conversion I would recommend to take the starter apart and have a machine shop turn about .005 off the OD of the armature. Use to do this a lot years ago.

tractorguy2 · Jun 8, 2017

My dad has a 641 and two of my friends. All on six volts. All
three crank right over and start fine.
I would start by checking out the starter. Making sure it has good
bearings and brushes.

The battery cables need to be 0 or 00 gauge. I would get a longer
ground cable and ground to a main casting not to the rusty battery
box.
Replace the starter solenoid. The internal contacts could be burnt
and not allow the full flow of six volts to the starter.

I have two Case SC tractors. My 1941 has a 12 volt generator. With
the original Autolite six volt starter. I have had zero problems
with the starter. I've owned it for 29 years. My 1948 had a 12
volt battery with the original 6 volt generator. I put it back to
six volts. I bought a new battery. Made all new cables from 00
gauge. Replaced the big push bottom. Cleaned and oiled the
starter. I also cleaned the starter mounting of rust. It cranks
right over with no trouble. Almost as good as my 41 on 12 volts.
The six volt generator still works.I've owned this tractor for 26 years.
You can buy conversion kits. You need to figure out first if you
have a jubilee, 600, or a 601 series. I have never used a
conversion kit. I make my own brackets and buy a three wire
alternator and a diode plug.

Before converting. I would at least clean and check out the
starter and replace all the battery cables.

M-MAN · Jun 8, 2017

You asked one question so I will answer it. Reliability!

Your call but you need to make up your mind before you buy anything. 6v systems need super heavy battery cables, new wiring, and the biggest cca battery you can stuff in
there. 12v conversions need small automotive battery cables and the smallest cca battery you can get.

6v systems weren't worth 2 cents when they stopped making them 50 years ago and they haven't improved with age. I earned that opinion by pushing, pulling, and rolling
them off when I was a youngster. Others may have earned a different opinion and if so I'm glad someone had better luck with them than I did.

oldtanker · Jun 9, 2017

(quoted from post at 21:49:13 06/08/17) You asked one question so I will answer it. Reliability!

Your call but you need to make up your mind before you buy anything. 6v systems need super heavy battery cables, new wiring, and the biggest cca battery you can stuff in
there. 12v conversions need small automotive battery cables and the smallest cca battery you can get.

6v systems weren't worth 2 cents when they stopped making them 50 years ago and they haven't improved with age. I earned that opinion by pushing, pulling, and rolling
them off when I was a youngster. Others may have earned a different opinion and if so I'm glad someone had better luck with them than I did.

Gotta agree!

I will add in that you should make sure that everything is in good working order as far as the starter, wiring and ignition system BEFORE it's converted. As others have stated a starter that dragging will cause starting problems. A 12 conversion will MASK that problem for a time but it's still going to fail. So everything should be in good shape before you convert.

Another down side to keeping it 6 volt is that should the voltage regulator fail (and eventually it will) the regulator available today often leave a lot to be desired. It's not uncommon to hear of someone who winds up taking 2 or 3 back because they are bad right out of the box.

I myself prefer the 3 wire GM alternator but the one wire ones work good too.

Rick

Traditional Farmer · Jun 9, 2017

6V---Starts when it wants to start
12V----Starts when you want it to start
Your choice.

12 vs 6

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