Not looking for sympathy just thoughts here. Well the state is closing a large facility. An auto dealer went out, concrete plant closed. We have lost many restaurants and stores. Logging related lots of closings too. a hospital closed some divisions and a nursing home went out too. Farming prices are in the gutter and you can see that is not in good shape. Couple towns did away with their police force!! (to costly) Seems a lot of it happened in the past year. Also learned many other things are on the edge. Just wondering if things are like that near you and go to a city or other areas and all is booming.
- Thread starter JOCCO
- Start date
TomH in PA
Well-known Member
They're talking about closing a couple elementary schools here, not enough kids to justify keeping them open.
The Northeast US is losing population. Some places are growing, especially Texas.
The Northeast US is losing population. Some places are growing, especially Texas.
Slight differences in industrys closing, but your post could have come from around here. Had a major manufacturer close and move to Mecico a few years back. Local economy never recovered. Other closings followed domino effect. Going to take a major turnaround in the economy before prosperity visits here again.
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
The way the local government is pizz'N money away cash flow must be good... They brought the land, hired out architects and said a new school could be built with no rise in property taxes... Somehow tax payers are spose to believe dat'. Adding on to the local collage, civic center and a new sports complex a 100 million should cover it :shock:
Get this they renovated down town original cost 5 mil. it could be done in 6 mo's. It took two years and $15 million.... This week they installed three electric car charging stations you can charge your car for free. They estimate there are 23 to 25 electric cars in the whole dang county. Craz-y D-emocrats spending other folks money...
Get this they renovated down town original cost 5 mil. it could be done in 6 mo's. It took two years and $15 million.... This week they installed three electric car charging stations you can charge your car for free. They estimate there are 23 to 25 electric cars in the whole dang county. Craz-y D-emocrats spending other folks money...
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
In Virginia where I'm located things are going strong a lot of it financed by taxpayer money from the rest of the country via Federal employees.Thought I'd never leave this farm but a couple of the offers I've had just out of the blue are enough to buy a better place 50 to 70 miles South and still have 2/3rds of my $$$ left.Still a hassle to move.
It seems they can't build enough subdivisions, businesses,grocery stores and restaurants.
It seems they can't build enough subdivisions, businesses,grocery stores and restaurants.
Janicholson
Well-known Member
Central MN seems to be above normal in employment, starts, and industrial activity. Jim
dr sportster
Well-known Member
Lots of growth and what seems to be a good economy in Fla. Road construction etc. {There is a dead Sonic -seems strange]
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
Not growing in my part of Texas. Two maybe three coal mines shutting down.Oil field service companies have all shut down.Population of my town and two others has dropped. Some people are selling off their cattle. Dropping sales at the feed stores. I went for fertilizer yesterday,I was the first truck they had seen in two days.Lots of homes and land for sell. Looked art my liquid feed loads for the fall.Ten have canceled fifteen more are not sure.Not looking good around here.
Billy way I see it in the cities and some lines of work are growing. Country, natural resource, rural places are dying or in recession. To a point that it is taking out service places, like stores, eateries, the mall. Some blame the internet (amazon etc.) but not real sure if that's it. Some of these places say they just can't make a go of it. Another example one town had 2 hardware stores, grocer stores, gas stations and so on for years. Now there down to one. Any attempts at reviving the others have been short lived. take care.
john in la
Well-known Member
We do not worry about the economy, crime, roads and schools in New Orleans.
We have more pressing matters to worry about.
We have more pressing matters to worry about.
It's not like it was while I was still a school kid during the 1970's with many government jobs and healthy manufacturing. It makes it harder to plan a life when your choices for jobs are Walmart, the area casino, or what is left of the mall. Nobody quits anything remotely good in terms of pay. Plenty of poor crop years the last several years and even with insurance income erosion has set in. Retirement for me is a pipe dream. I'm glad I am not 22 and just out of college. I don't want to imagine what corporate America has planned to further squeeze the middle class. Education was the fix for those that came of age decades ago but do you want to borrow 10's of thousands of dollars for a career you may be out of by the time you are in your early 30's due to automation, immigration, or whatever.
Goose
Well-known Member
I think a lot of it starts and stops on the local level.
My county has a very aggressive economic development committee with a full time president who attends conferences and conventions nationwide to promote growth for our county. It's paying off. Within the last couple of years, we've had a new bank building built, a new child development center built, a new Dollar General store built, we're in the finishing stages of a new Justice Center, among other major projects. There is a new "rail campus" in the talking stages next to a major rail line that goes past our town.
A county has to adapt to the times. Nothing stays the same. The appearance of Walmart in my hometown caused some "Mom & Pop" businesses to switch from general merchandise to niche businesses specializing in one area.
Location plays a big part. A smaller town in a more remote area will need to be more self-sufficient than a town closer to a major urban center, etc. There's no one "fit's all sizes" solution.
My county has a very aggressive economic development committee with a full time president who attends conferences and conventions nationwide to promote growth for our county. It's paying off. Within the last couple of years, we've had a new bank building built, a new child development center built, a new Dollar General store built, we're in the finishing stages of a new Justice Center, among other major projects. There is a new "rail campus" in the talking stages next to a major rail line that goes past our town.
A county has to adapt to the times. Nothing stays the same. The appearance of Walmart in my hometown caused some "Mom & Pop" businesses to switch from general merchandise to niche businesses specializing in one area.
Location plays a big part. A smaller town in a more remote area will need to be more self-sufficient than a town closer to a major urban center, etc. There's no one "fit's all sizes" solution.
The politicians here think our economy is so good they're turning jobs away. Someone wanted to build a new pork slaughter plant in the bigger city here, it would of meant 2,000+ jobs in a city of 20,000, the city council ran them off. I'm guessing they don't want a local economy strong enough to attract their kids back home after college. Yes I know most of the jobs at the pork processor would of been entry level, low skill, low pay BUT there those additional jobs would of driven a demand for better jobs supporting the needs of those new employees and many of them might of choose to live in the smaller outlying cities increasing the demand in those cities for housing and more students for the local schools. In some of the smaller communities here 100 more kids would be the difference between closing the schools and keeping them open.
hiredman56
Member
The town nearest has two funeral homes and one liquor store. Kind of sums it up?
Wayne in NE
Member
Goose,
Do you live close to the community that has a large 4th of July celebration?
Wayne
Do you live close to the community that has a large 4th of July celebration?
Wayne
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
Another problem I see around here. Is that everyone is related or friends with someone. So it is hard to fire them. No matter how bad a job they do.So most of us that aren't part of the good ole boy system. Take our business out of town. The customer service is so bad it is worth the 15 mile drive to get what I need.
37chief
Well-known Member
- Location
- California
Here in California, they just keeping raising taxes, as businesses leave, to keep the money coming in. Causing more businesses to leave. Stan
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
I can't see the Federal Gov't downsizing anytime soon unfortunately,plus the University keeps expanding too.
Stephen Newell
Well-known Member
With so much regulation and government medaling it's difficult for any business to make a go of it, especially one that makes things. I had to close a business because of the government.
RobCons
Well-known Member
- Location
- Central Alabama
I think we are better than average. Unemployment numbers are less then national average, construction is on the upswing. Most contractors are booked well in advance. I'm working with a 2 month backlog of projects for people. Restaurants are full of customers.
Very depressed here, everyone trying to sell and leave, values low. Only choices for decent jobs are Correction Officer, Teacher, or we have two handicap communities that employ quite a number. We were "given" a casino to stimulate the area....yeah, everywhere else casinos are closing now we will have one, we have our doubts.
Middle Tennessee Growing like wild/ New houses ever where and still folks moving in having a hard time finding a place to live. Don,t know how long the bubble will hold but right now it is wide open in Tennessee. The scrub jobs like the restaurants and McDonalds just cannot find workers./
Goose
Well-known Member
5 miles south. Seward has a population of 7,000 and they estimate they draw up to 40,000 on the 4th. The whole town goes nuts.
The entire courthouse square is covered with craft vendors, several activities going on at once all over town, a parade that usually lasts an hour and a half, really too much to list here.
Twenty years ago, I was in charge of the antique auto show for several years. The show covered a block and a half on both sides of the street back then. Now it covered 4 blocks on both sides of the street. Also an antique tractor show. I might take my M Farmall to that this year.
Anyway, it's quite an occasion.
The entire courthouse square is covered with craft vendors, several activities going on at once all over town, a parade that usually lasts an hour and a half, really too much to list here.
Twenty years ago, I was in charge of the antique auto show for several years. The show covered a block and a half on both sides of the street back then. Now it covered 4 blocks on both sides of the street. Also an antique tractor show. I might take my M Farmall to that this year.
Anyway, it's quite an occasion.
The Twin Cities report record house sales, houses don't stay on the market for 2 days. Ecconomy is wonderful.
Out in the country every town is in a race to put up new schools, new school campuses. The small towns figured out thry pay $25 a year in extra taxes, farmers pay $800 a year in extra taxes with the current prop tax system, so they can't get the polls open fast enough to build new.
It's all wonderful.
Right?
Paul
Out in the country every town is in a race to put up new schools, new school campuses. The small towns figured out thry pay $25 a year in extra taxes, farmers pay $800 a year in extra taxes with the current prop tax system, so they can't get the polls open fast enough to build new.
It's all wonderful.
Right?
Paul
tractorguy2
Well-known Member
What size of town do you consider big? Biggest town in my county is 1500 population. The rest of the towns are under 500. The only jobs are part time with no insurance. Taxes took a big jump this year. Now the county thinks they need their own sales tax. The sales tax is already 7.5%. With the new county tax. The sales tax will be 8.5 to 9%.
rick deere
Well-known Member
Everything is slowly coming back again and its about time. We been on the short end for awhile, but around here folks are spending money again. There are jobs everywere. signs in all windows help wanted. But no one wants to work, so whose fault is that. Stop free money make people take jobs. Its getting better as fast as it can. New truck sales at all time high. And they cost lots of money.
showcrop
Well-known Member
Things are booming here in central New England. Something that I notice though is a lot of homes that I drive by that are either vacant or the owners can't afford to keep them up. I think that there are a lot of older people that lost a lot of ground during the recession and are just holding on by a shoestring now.
Logan in SE Texas
Member
Billy, If I remember correctly you are in Central Texas, I know there is a large open type coal mine just outside of Kosse, is it still operating?
Logan in SE Texas
Member
Just a few days ago the Saudis announced an investment of $18 Billion with $12 B going to expand the largest refinery in North America in Pt. Arthur, Texas. County, city and school district gov.are ate up with corruption, taxes are going up, weather is hot and humid but we have good paying jobs if you want to work in the Petro-chemical industry.
banjoman09
Well-known Member
Interesting subject - small town America has been decline for years; my town was booming in the 70-80's ; it has 265 today....with the dogs. Only business is the Co-op. Farming is down everywhere and affects the whole economy. Jobs are in the bigger towns/cities. I think our new government, whether you like it or not- will be good for our economy but will take some time. The oil decline has closed a lot of business....whomever weathers the storm will survive but always hurts. Hang on 
rick deere
Well-known Member
Farmers in Arkansas are booming. cotton prices are high and they can make 3 bale per acre plus, largest cotton gin in the world I was told in Leachville Arkansas can gin over 110 bales an hour. Arkansas has the best farmers for cotton and grain , I'm no farmer. But I do cut some of there hair.
In Michigan's UP, they are losing population again. They have 1/3 of the landmass of the state, but only 3% of the population.
But the UP lost population in every census of the 20th century, so it isn't a new issue. I really don't see any political influence in this, it's economics, the same thing is happening all over the world.
But the UP lost population in every census of the 20th century, so it isn't a new issue. I really don't see any political influence in this, it's economics, the same thing is happening all over the world.
It may or may not be in control of the locals, especially in areas that have one or 2 big employers. Most small businesses rely on bigger firms for their survival. In a one horse town, if the horse dies, not much you can do about it. Coal mines in Appalachia or copper mines in the UP are examples.
olgentdc
Well-known Member
naw its nnalert
Keith Molden
Well-known Member
Here in Meigs county Ohio we don't have to worry about industry, we don't have any. We don't have to worry about the farming industry, we have very little. We have probably 3 dairies and if they milk over 100 cows, I'd be surprised. Our large crop farmers probably only have a hundred or so pot plants and if they don't get raided, they make pretty good money for the year and it's tax exempt. A large corn or bean farmer only will have in the neighborhood of 150 acres. That's why for a lot of years before I retired I had to live away from home for 8 to 12 weeks at a time working on outages in power plants. I had to go where the money was & some people thought I was crazy, but I made good money so it was good. Keith
Good for the economy and good for the FARM economy is 2 different things. IMO all farm subsidies should be cut. Why should I have to pay for my food twice, once at tax time and again in the store? Farmers make up about 1% of the population so if their economy is failing it has little effect on the overall economy.
As far as small town America? Depends on the area how they are doing. But they will never, ever be what they once were. Today you have one farmer doing what it took 5-10 farmers years ago. So that's 4-9 fewer farm families supporting local businesses. Most businesses can't take a 90% reduction is sales and 40% is devastating. And that is what happened to the "local farm communities" of yesteryear. Then too with the change of farming came job reductions in town that further reduced the customer base. No big farming is here to stay.
Rick
My county also has a a big economic development agency that spends lots of money going all over the country. They have nothing to show for it so far. In fact, the last few programs they've tried have failed miserably.
Just count yourself lucky. Up here if a Dollar General, Walmart or Lowes tries to open there is a faction ready to fight it tooth and nail as a sign of "capitalist over reach" or some such thing.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Farm subsidies and Federal crop insurance are why these huge farms that grow only 1 crop like corn can exist.Do away with their Gov't goodies and the farms will be broken back up and the farms
would then go back to raising different crops and livestock to spread the risk of failures that are now being financed by the Gov't.
would then go back to raising different crops and livestock to spread the risk of failures that are now being financed by the Gov't.
Thing is I doubt the small farm would come back. You'd still have the big farming just raising different crops and being more diversified. They already own the land and the equipment. All they have to do is get out of the corn/bean rotation. Wouldn't take much for them to start raising flax, barley rye or other crops, pasture some land and put livestock back in. No IMO the BTO is here to stay.
Rick
Adirondack case guy
Well-known Member
Yea, and our Jack Arzed governor wants to build a $15M gondola ride on the state fairgrounds. Same group of his cronies decide to put big bucks into up grades of several service areas on the NYS Thruway. A year later they are tearing down the upgrades and upgrading them yet again. The governor brags about his rebuild upstate NY program. Spent millions on job development with a net gain of less than 40 new jobs, according to a watch dog group. I think most of the money was spent on TV adds, trying to convince the public that his policies were successful.
Loren
Loren
Loren (ACG), I still find it amazing that the "Buffalo billion" scandal hasn't left our governor tainted, if not fully connected with the shady dealings.
I see "a new DG" as a sign of further collapse (for people who can no longer afford to go to WM).
Farmers' market sales are down, and not just here, but across most of the state. Last figures I saw were a drop of 42% in 2016 after a smaller drop in 2015. It's a mixed bag. One 'farmer' has gotten into making prepared foods, and is doing quite well. Most other farmers (selling raw materials for meals) have been losing sales - it seems most of those younger than 50 no longer cook. Our own sales have dropped about 35%, but county and school property taxes are up, even with declining school enrollments.
Milk prices have really put the hurt on the few remaining dairy farmers around, though somehow, the biggest of them seem to still be doing OK (new barns, new tractors and other equipment, house renovations, etc).
This area has been 'depressed' since manufacturing pulled out in the '80's, with further declines in business and population since then, so measuring by that yard stick, I guess I'm glad the rate of decline isn't even faster.
I see "a new DG" as a sign of further collapse (for people who can no longer afford to go to WM).
Farmers' market sales are down, and not just here, but across most of the state. Last figures I saw were a drop of 42% in 2016 after a smaller drop in 2015. It's a mixed bag. One 'farmer' has gotten into making prepared foods, and is doing quite well. Most other farmers (selling raw materials for meals) have been losing sales - it seems most of those younger than 50 no longer cook. Our own sales have dropped about 35%, but county and school property taxes are up, even with declining school enrollments.
Milk prices have really put the hurt on the few remaining dairy farmers around, though somehow, the biggest of them seem to still be doing OK (new barns, new tractors and other equipment, house renovations, etc).
This area has been 'depressed' since manufacturing pulled out in the '80's, with further declines in business and population since then, so measuring by that yard stick, I guess I'm glad the rate of decline isn't even faster.
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
Sounds like it's time to move, can't expect the jobs to come to you! Things are booming in most of MN, shortage of skilled workers. Problem is many unemployed folks have no skills.
you talk about Texas, i live in east Texas. just about every school dist. around where i live has had to float a new bond issue to build new buildings. this is because of the influx, infestation, increased number of students from countries south of the Rio Grand, that don't speak English, whose parents don't pay taxes. All this means that the land owners taxes are going up.
Cattle, timber, and hay prices are not increasing in proportion to the land tax increase not to mention the cost of living increase.
Ya, Texas is growing, at the land owner's expense.
bass
Cattle, timber, and hay prices are not increasing in proportion to the land tax increase not to mention the cost of living increase.
Ya, Texas is growing, at the land owner's expense.
bass
Russ here our problem is mostly unskilled labor needed. Convenience store, starts at 9.25 an hour, can't find anyone who wants to work. Boat place looking for general laborer, starts at 11 an hour, no takers and so on. Then a lot of unskilled people who think they are too good to work jobs like that while crying about not having any money.
Rick
The Famous Grouse
Member
The only thing that is constant is change. I have a lot of connections and relatives in rural Minnesota so I get a composite view.
In several mid-sized cities, the report I'm getting is that business is booming. Interest rates are relatively low and everything from construction, to light industry, to services, etc are going gangbusters.
The biggest problem is the desperate shortage of skilled workers. And basically, jobs are increasingly demanding a higher and higher skill level and more advanced training.
Even retail is on hard times as far as getting employees. I have connections out west in Alexandria and I know a manager at one of the big chain retailers out there who has told his staff do not, under any circumstances, allow a qualified applicant to leave without the manager talking to them and deciding whether or not to make an on the spot offer. The situation is so desperate that they have lost out on multiple people because they walked across the parking lot to the OTHER big box store and got hired on the spot.
An out of work mechanic is seen about as often as a live dinosaur. The situation is desperate for almost any kind of work that involves skill and formal training. Get your kids to go to vocational school, college, or military!
But on the other hand, things are tough on the farms. My last farming uncle retired this year after he and his wife did their projections and saw that they would run at about a $200,000 loss this year assuming grain prices stay roughly the same. The sold everything off and rented out the land, they are only 63 years old but they were not keen to take on multiple years of running in the red or at break even because of low grain prices. There is NOT much optimism that I hear of for grain prices going up much (if any!) in the next 2-4 years. If fuel or input prices take a jump for some reason, a lot of farms are in trouble.
The cattle guys are in a little better shape. I don't follow the market closely, but I believe prices have edged up in recent months. The 2 cattle farmers I know had sold down heavily when prices were high and they had really run back their herds such that their breeding stock was aging and they needed to hold back replacements in a big way. Spring calving weather was good, but in MN they are struggling with getting forage crops in due to wet weather.
So as usual, it's a mixed bag here in MN.
Grouse
In several mid-sized cities, the report I'm getting is that business is booming. Interest rates are relatively low and everything from construction, to light industry, to services, etc are going gangbusters.
The biggest problem is the desperate shortage of skilled workers. And basically, jobs are increasingly demanding a higher and higher skill level and more advanced training.
Even retail is on hard times as far as getting employees. I have connections out west in Alexandria and I know a manager at one of the big chain retailers out there who has told his staff do not, under any circumstances, allow a qualified applicant to leave without the manager talking to them and deciding whether or not to make an on the spot offer. The situation is so desperate that they have lost out on multiple people because they walked across the parking lot to the OTHER big box store and got hired on the spot.
An out of work mechanic is seen about as often as a live dinosaur. The situation is desperate for almost any kind of work that involves skill and formal training. Get your kids to go to vocational school, college, or military!
But on the other hand, things are tough on the farms. My last farming uncle retired this year after he and his wife did their projections and saw that they would run at about a $200,000 loss this year assuming grain prices stay roughly the same. The sold everything off and rented out the land, they are only 63 years old but they were not keen to take on multiple years of running in the red or at break even because of low grain prices. There is NOT much optimism that I hear of for grain prices going up much (if any!) in the next 2-4 years. If fuel or input prices take a jump for some reason, a lot of farms are in trouble.
The cattle guys are in a little better shape. I don't follow the market closely, but I believe prices have edged up in recent months. The 2 cattle farmers I know had sold down heavily when prices were high and they had really run back their herds such that their breeding stock was aging and they needed to hold back replacements in a big way. Spring calving weather was good, but in MN they are struggling with getting forage crops in due to wet weather.
So as usual, it's a mixed bag here in MN.
Grouse
Our county has two big temp concrete plants running for building roads and bridges. Every week there's a new foundation going in for a new commercial building. I was just in a huge data center today, with 260,000sqft, and they are expanding to 400,000 in the next 18 months. New car(truck) sales are through the roof, and the local Ford dealer just hit a record for monthly sales as 3rd in the nation. Every driveway or garage has a 2YO or newer BMW, Lexus, big truck, etc in it, many have two or more. My neighbor just booked a 3 MONTH cruise around the pacific. Money flows like water here, and I don't like it. Our school dist is putting in 2 new schools, and they will be filled the day they open.
Things in Central Ohio around Columbus seem to be pretty good, lots of construction of new buildings downtown, housing is going strong all around the big city, lots of jobs going begging in some industries. Amazon opened two fulfillment centers in the area and are making on the spot job offers for full time jobs. They also opened a data center here too. Things seem to be on an even keel in the outlying cities. Some big retailers have closed stores but not many in my area. In our county seat Sears and K-Mart and an old time family owned furniture store have closed. The JC Penney at the mall seems to be safe for now, the mall itself is up for sale from the creditors who took it over from the owners. Starting price: $7M. Stores like Kohls, Menards, Lowes and WalMart seem to be doing well. Kroger is building big new store on the site of the old K-Mart. Rumor around town is that Rural King is looking for a site. A number of small restaurants are opening. A newer Asian restaurant (Chinese, Japanese, Thai, etc.) has become one of our favorites. The local old time glass-making company is still having problems (they compete with the foreign made glass tableware) and they are slowly sinking, but the effect on the city is less than it was at one time.
My company, a big insurer and financial services company, is doing well and growing. Weather and auto losses are hurting, as they are every company but we'll get through it. We just got a new batch of interns and a lot of them will get job offers once the summer is over, if they are looking for a job at that time. Especially valued are the actuarial and analytics interns. If your kid has a math aptitude, actuarial science is a good course of study, they will have companies competing for their services the rest of their career and "head hunters" calling them constantly. Some of us old timers that were hired in the late 70's early 80's during a growth spurt are reaching retirement age and the will open up jobs in various areas.
Thats the same across the country. I lay the blame squarely on the education industry (and it IS an industry) that's been pushing college and office type jobs as the only way to get ahead in life for the past 50 years. When I was kid a good plumber made a great living. That hasn't changed. But no one wants to WORK anymore. The expectation is that you go to school and party for 4-6 years, amass a quarter million in debt and then graduate with a degree that will instantly land you a $500K starter job and the corner office. It's horse pucky. Until we admit that skilled labor is not only a respectable career choice, but often the better choice, we're stuck here.
As a poster here once said to me, "Just how many rocket scientists do we actually need?"
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