Synthetic oil

I've used synthetic oil in my trucks for years. Would it be good for old tractors and old stationary engines?
Thanks Dave

Gets right cold where we are, so I've changed to using ONLY synthetic up here. Works great for our not so hot summers, but the real magic is in our -40° winters!

I've always run Rotella in my Allis D-14, but one winter I had to use it to feed round bales - it was only one bale a day, so the tractor never got a chance to warm up. I switched to synthetic oil to help starting and lubrication, and it worked well. I thought it would create a bunch of leaks, but not a drop
Pete

Leaks are an urban legend. Just like using detergent oil in an engine which had non-detergent oil in it loosening up crud. Doesn't happen.

Not all engines like synthetic oil. I have a Chevy Impala with a 3.9 V6 that had less than 20,000 miles and dealer said to use synthetic oil. Well it used a quart every 1,000 miles ( no leaks ) and after 2 changes I went to conventional oil and it doesn't use a drop between oil changes. I do use synthetic oil in my portable generator and snow blower with no problems.

The detergent oil thing certainly is not an "urban legend." Maybe you have not been around long enough to see what HD does when dumped into an engine with 2" of sludge inside?

Not worth commenting on what some here call "synthetic" oil. The definition of the term keeps changing.

If the environment is extremely cold, extrmely hot or the machine is worked extremely hard 24/7.

I started with synthetic in a car I had purchased with low miles on the odometer and was 4 years old. I had that car for nearly 8 years and it started great in both winter and summer. I also had a "first" with that car. It was the first car I ever owned (every car or truck I have owned, I bought used) which never needed a battery replaced. The battery in that car appeared to be the original battery. The car was pretty much driven to work every day. I cannot help but think with the starter not laboring so much to start the car in the cold weather, might have strained the battery less, thus giving me a longer life in that battery. I since switched my wife's good car, my daughter's car, and my diesel pickup truck to full synthetic oil. With the cars driven by others, they pay little attention to the oil change stickers or "oil life" indicators, and I know they intervals get stretched out further than I like to see them, thus I can at least feel confident the oil is in good condition by the time I get the oil changed. I did put full synthetic oil in my yard and snow removal tractor. It turns over easier in the cold weather and seems to start quicker. I DO plug in the block heater as it is a cold blooded engine. I just feel the synthetic is a superior product when experiencing extremes in temperature at startup and operation, as well as if/when the oil change interval might be stretched out a bit. I probably am throwing my money away, but I like to see the engine oil changed, even when using the synthetic, just as prescribed in the owner's manual. I have a friend of mine who ran 0W-30 synthetic in his garden tractor he used for snow removal in the winter months to aid in starting. Never a lick of trouble with it. I suspect you will "clean out" the crankcase in the old tractors and stationary engines if you switch. For how I use my old tractors and stationary engines for events and nothing really more, I won't resort to using synthetic in mine.

"Synthetic" oil in the US is not actually synthetic. It is not made by molecular combining of HC chains in a lab. The overwhelming majority of the fluid in synthetic oil is actually hydrocracked base oil. Highly refined, highly treated but still a paraffin base out of the ground. Sad they are allowed to call it synthetic.

Some aircraft engines from the 80s did not do well with synthetic oil. It causes a few plane crashes before the bugs were worked out. I would think in most old tractors it would be fine. Just watch the weights, because newer cars use lower vis oil, and heavy synthetic oils are hard to find.

(quoted from post at 19:43:04 05/26/17) "Synthetic" oil in the US is not actually synthetic. It is not made by molecular combining of HC chains in a lab. The overwhelming majority of the fluid in synthetic oil is actually hydrocracked base oil. Highly refined, highly treated but still a paraffin base out of the ground. Sad they are allowed to call it synthetic.

Some aircraft engines from the 80s did not do well with synthetic oil. It causes a few plane crashes before the bugs were worked out. I would think in most old tractors it would be fine. Just watch the weights, because newer cars use lower vis oil, and heavy synthetic oils are hard to find.

Click to expand...

I disagree with almost everything you said.


Hydrocracking oil strips off all of the paraffin and wax molecules, leaving a very ultra pure lubrication molecule not normally found in nature. Ones that performs with in 90% of the ester molecules and does it at a fraction of the cost. Even mobil one uses that oil in a lot of its products as it meets and exceeds the required specs for a particular oil. Yes group iv and groupV oils still perform better in extreme temperatures as in the sub arctic or in temps way above normal engine temperatures, So yes they are a specialty oil. But group III hydrocracked oils are filling the bulk of high end extended performance oils and passing all the required tests. As to synthetic,, it went to arbitration and won the legal case, as this molecule is every bit as synthetic as the ester molecules produced from natural gas.

AS to removing sludge, its not the oil, but the additives that any hd oil has that will slowly breakdown sludge. AND its the base or alkali additives that fight acids, that actually break down the sludge as a secondary effect. Good hd oils have a base/acid number of 10 to 12, making them very very alkali, and that is the magic that cleans. (guess what machine shops use to clean greasy gunked up engines with) Also anti clumping additives keep the solidified contaminates from sticking together and that keeps them microsopic and keeps them from becoming sludge.

Group IV and group V oils were a result of the cold war ('50s) effort to get vehicles to operate in alaska and other areas, so the military and darpa funded most of the research that got us there. Later on in the 60s an oil that would work in space, again, in extreme temperature swings was needed for the spacecraft. Much later on, hydro cracking (research by chevron) developed a cheaper oil almost as good as the group 4 and 5 oils, and it was within spec for most all ICE (internal combustion engine) needs.

In the 70s cars had a silicon based gasket system that replaced the cork gaskets. It was found that the additives in the better oils actually leached out the silicon and caused the gastets to leak early (research by cummins) so the gasket formula was changed by all.. So yes there is some truth to so call HD oils causing engines to leak, but again it was the additive package found in the high end oils that caused the leak, and yes, most of the very high end additive packed oils at that time were synthetic... And yes if a vehicle has lots of gunk and sludged up seals, a high end oil will slowly clean the gunk off those seals and because the seals are now exposed to oil, the engine shows new signs of leaking, so yes, there is some truth to a oil with a hd additive package can make some vehicles appear to use more oil by cleaning up the leaky parts. But again, it was the additivie package that proved to do that. And the harden seals that are brittle and cracked would have leaked if not covered by layers of gunk....

For jet engine use, synthetic oils are a must!... but ICE engines dont normally run in those temperatures. So group 3 or even a blend of group 2 and group 3 oils are the most sold synthetic oils today.

A little research on the history of oil will go a long ways to dispel all the wives tales out there.

Very interesting discussion and you apparently know your oils. A question off topic but still related to oil in general. Most everyone feels that you should use a non detergent oil in a hydraulic system like on an old M or H Farmall tractor because a detergent oil would foam more. Correct me if I am wrong, but if a high detergent oil foamed badly, all engines with hydraulic lifters would be in deep doo doo using a high detergent oil, which they all have been doing for the last 60 plus years. I know they have an anti foaming additive package in the high detergent oils.

Oddly newer bobcats and other hydraulic machinery are going to detergent hd oil.. They found it cuts wear significantly.... while older machinery originally ran virgin hydraualic oils, and later machinery ran improved hydraulic oils.. with anti foam additives, moisture additives, dry start additives, and oring conditioners added to them. Virgin hydro oil was an oil with no additives, but refined to a specific viscosity rating. So it was a very very basic oil.

A lot of equipment today will say, if you cant get "our" hydo oil, run 15w-40 hd motor oil... so the industry is changing.

I would always run at a minimum a "tractor" rated hydraulic oil as mentioned above to get the needed additive package. If new equip, check for the newer specs for the "AW hydraulic oil" (antiwear) requirements to insure that you dont damage the pumps with the much higher pressures and heat of the newer pump designs.

AW hydro oils are for equipment that runs hydraulic pumps only!!!!!

CAUTION!! most tractors have wet clutches for either brakes or pto, or dual power, power shifts etc... you have to limit the amount of anti friction additives or your brakes and clutches will slip and become useless. So you must NOT run the best oil, but you must run the correct oil.