Old motor vehicle titles and computers

JDEM · May 19, 2017

It is a good thing we do not need motor-vehicle titles for tractors (yet). Here in Michigan, we need them for cars, trucks, and even ATVs.

I spent the past two years, off and on, restoring a 1978 Toyota-Chinook Micro-mini motorhome. To me - 1978 is not very "old." I finally got it road-worthy and tried to register it yesterday. What a mess!

First - my insurance company refused to insure it since they claim no such vehicle exists. This is Progressive. After a lot of time on the phone I got to talk to a manager and asked where they get their info from. Ends up they go on-line and use NADA Blue Book for RVs. I told them my RV is indeed in the NADA book and they say it is not. So instead of wasting more time - I hung up the phone. I then went on-line, lied about a few details, and got insurance.

Next stop - the DMV here in northern Michigan (called the Secretary of State office). I brought in my genuine and notarized Louisiana title and their new computer system will not accept it. The manager there said the problem might be the short VIN used in 1978 or because it is "foreign." Note that "foreign" because it is out of state and not because it is partly made in Japan.

Then the manager looked it up on-line at NADA for RVs and told me my vehicle "does not exist." So now? She sent my title to the state capital in Lansing for "investigation" whatever that means.

So out of frustration, I went home. I took the VIN tag off my 1978 and stuck on a 1976 VIN tag from a wreck I have. This wreck just happens to have a New Mexico title and for some strange reason - New Mexico is not as "foreign" to the DMV as Louisiana. So got it all registered. Wrong year - but I doubt anybody is going to notice.

Note - the lady who run the DMV office told me that this is all caused by their new computer system and if I had come a year ago to register this thing - there would of been NO problem.

rockyridgefarm · May 19, 2017

(quoted from post at 05:20:22 05/19/17) It is a good thing we do not need motor-vehicle titles for tractors (yet). Here in Michigan, we need them for cars, trucks, and even ATVs.

I spent the past two years, off and on, restoring a 1978 Toyota-Chinook Micro-mini motorhome. To me - 1978 is not very "old." I finally got it road-worthy and tried to register it yesterday. What a mess!

First - my insurance company refused to insure it since they claim no such vehicle exists. This is Progressive. After a lot of time on the phone I got to talk to a manager and asked where they get their info from. Ends up they go on-line and use NADA Blue Book for RVs. I told them my RV is indeed in the NADA book and they say it is not. So instead of wasting more time - I hung up the phone. I then went on-line, lied about a few details, and got insurance.

Next stop - the DMV here in northern Michigan (called the Secretary of State office). I brought in my genuine and notarized Louisiana title and their new computer system will not accept it. The manager there said the problem might be the short VIN used in 1978 or because it is "foreign." Note that "foreign" because it is out of state and not because it is partly made in Japan.

Then the manager looked it up on-line at NADA for RVs and told me my vehicle "does not exist." So now? She sent my title to the state capital in Lansing for "investigation" whatever that means.

So out of frustration, I went home. I took the VIN tag off my 1978 and stuck on a 1976 VIN tag from a wreck I have. This wreck just happens to have a New Mexico title and for some strange reason - New Mexico is not as "foreign" to the DMV as Louisiana. So got it all registered. Wrong year - but I doubt anybody is going to notice.

Note - the lady who run the DMV office told me that this is all caused by their new computer system and if I had come a year ago to register this thing - there would of been NO problem.

Id sure try a little harder to get the insurance company the honest information and get it insured properly. I'll bet they'll take your money for years and then deny a claim due to being given fraudulent information. Do you have a local agent that could help you out?

JML755 · May 19, 2017

(quoted from post at 08:20:22 05/19/17) .......
[b:d8664c780c]Then the manager looked it up on-line at NADA for RVs and told me my vehicle "does not exist." [/b:d8664c780c] ...

Should have gone outside and drove it through the front window. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously, all the stuff you mentioned that you did could be a problem if you get into an accident and a bottom feeding, scum-sucking lawyer like Geoffrey Feiger gets involved.

Traditional Farmer · May 19, 2017

If you ever have a wreck you will be in trouble with your insurance company(probably deny claim) and the cops what you did swapping VIN numbers is a felony and the number is on the vehicle
in other places and the trooper will check.

wvfarmboy · May 19, 2017

some times you do what you have to with something this old i dought any one would care just in case keep all papre work an d take pics of everthing and never tell anything .

JDEM · May 19, 2017

I am not going to pay extra for an agent. Besides - to really get
technical here - if I had done the insurance by phone I would of had
to lied. Not quite the same on-line. So taking a human out of the
situation helped. Person on the phone asked if the RV had a "plumbed
bathroom" and I said "no." That is what disqualified it. When on-
line however, the question was . . "is there a bathroom." For that I
said "yes" since it does have a portable commode in a little cubicle.

As to VIN change? Sorry, I am not worried. The gloom and doom does
not worry me. Half the parts on this motorhome are from other year
rigs. Most of the cab, doors, and half the coach-body are from 1975s
and 1977s. Engine is from a 1976. Full-floating dually rear axle is
from a 1987 Japanese school-bus. Transmission is from a 1975 Corolla
car. Not much left of the original 1978 anyway.

kcm.MN · May 19, 2017

I recently tried to get insurance through State Farm(!!) on a 2000 GMC Topkick C5500. They said no problem and, when reading back the info, they read C6500. I said no, it's a C5500. They said it doesn't exist. Hmm....then how is it I have a photo of that on my camera> Want me to drive it in and show ya'? Hmm??? ...Naw, I was nice, for a change. *wink*

Anyway, come to find out the C5500 is less popular than the C6500, and they are close enough to the same animal that State Farm "overlooks" that minor difference. Same thing with another model farther down the food chain. Yet then I noticed that they valued my truck at like $18,000. YES, THAT'S U.S. DOLLARS!!!!! Oh? But I only paid a hair over $6k. And THAT'S when she said something that allowed me to see between the lines a bit.

Come to find out, State Farm (and probably many other insurance carriers) commonly does such things like this. Why? ....Why, to make more money, of course! Think about it - why else would an "Insurance Company", a company in existence to GIVE YOU MONEY (at their discretion!) in the event of an accident, why would they want to dump multiple models of a similar vehicle all together like that? ....And why use the top (most expensive) model?!?!?

I was told that if there was ever an accident that the adjuster would then do their handiwork and all things would come out in the wash. ....Yes, like leaving a dollar bill in my jeans while they're being laundered!

Eh, overall I've been quite happy with State Farm, and I've learned enough over the years to better understand how "The System" works, so I'm not complaining. At least now I can legally get out there and be a public menace just like everyone else!

jeffcat · May 19, 2017

You mean like when you have a couple of little tow behind trailers and
just ONE license plate with well oiled screws. Get my drift.

Denny K · May 19, 2017

Johnny Cash would be proud of you. (Cadillac song)

kcm.MN · May 19, 2017

(quoted from post at 09:29:42 05/19/17) Johnny Cash would be proud of you. (Cadillac song)

Wish I'd thought of that. :lol:

W_B · May 19, 2017

Oh, boy, another insurance lesson for the forum:

"Yet then I noticed that they valued my truck at like $18,000. YES, THAT'S U.S. DOLLARS!!!!! Oh? But I only paid a hair over $6k. And THAT'S when she said something that allowed me to see between the lines a bit."

They didn't "value" it at that, rating for this size of vehicle is based on cost new. There are books (back in my day as an underwriter) and VIN match programs that know the cost new based on VIN. So, they aren't out to get you. That's just the way the industry rates them.

kcm.MN · May 19, 2017

Yes WB, you're absolutely right, that dollar amount IS based on the price of the truck when new. But that's my point - it's NOT new. Rather than basing the insurable amount on the truck's actual value, it is instead grouped together with all the other such trucks, even if of different models.

When you buy homeowner's insurance, you buy the amount of coverage you want for your home. Granted, that doesn't mean you can buy $500k insurance on a $250k home and expect to get $500k!! But if I wanted to have "my" rates based on the current condition of the truck, how often it will be used, and what is a reasonable value for it, then why can't I?? Most of the other trucks classified along with this one have greater value. This is a former U-haul van with 24' box - nothing special. It's a 454 gas with automatic. They don't sell for as much as the same chassis with a flatbed, a rollback bed, or any other configuration. So my question in all that mess above is, why base it on a higher $ rate, or group it together with other trucks of higher value? Sorry, but I honestly don't understand the way of thinking here.

Insurance companies are in business to make money, as is most every other business. But as with some other companies I've dealt with, some of their methods.....how they rationalize things escapes me. Maybe as a former underwriter you can help us better understand this way of thinking? Not being an adz here; just trying to understand something that I don't understand.

And as I said, I have had mostly good experiences with State Farm. I'm happy with them and plan on staying a customer.

kcm.MN · May 19, 2017

Guess I should add in a bit more of my experiences here - the not-so-good part. We had an older 3/4 ton Suburban and it was totaled in an accident. The adjuster came out and figured the value. However, he left off MOST of anything that would add value to the vehicle. Leather seats, premium stereo, A/C, heck, even power steering wasn't even there at first!

I know there is a difference between the folks who "sell" the policies and the folks who "pay" on the policies. Many adjusters out there are good and fair, but some aren't. And unfortunately, in this business, sometimes it's those guys who save the company on claims that end up getting raises for doing such a good job.

RedMF40 · May 19, 2017

For the insurance issue, I'd try Hagerty. I have several old vehicles that I use occasionally insured with them. The newest is a 1984 F150 that they accepted as a "classic." Won't argue with them on that. Rates are ridiculously cheap. Very good customer service, too. They may work with you.

kcm.MN · May 19, 2017

Thank you Red, will keep that in mind!!

Was out picking up some limbs a while ago when another thought hit me. Maybe someone here has an answer for this:
Why is it that your rate for auto insurance is now partially based on your credit rating?? I mean, I know people who are financially responsible who drive like maniacs, and others who can't keep a + balance but are wonderful drivers. I don't get it?

RBoots · May 19, 2017

Like this one? You can't tell me her husband
wasn't out for money when he stood on the
curb and watched the bus take off and run
over his wife without yelling or trying to
stop it. I don't know if it shows his cut in
this article or not, but it was upwards of
600,000 dollars for his part of the 1.35
million. Leech.

Ross
Your favorite lawyer

Ray · May 19, 2017

Insure it through hagerty.They insure classic cars,trucks,tractors etc at an agreed value. If it's wrecked a regular insurance company will tell you it has little value while collecting your premium based on your stated value.Hagerty pays off the value you set,not some Nada book.

Goose · May 19, 2017

Twenty years ago, when our daughter was in college, a drunk driver made a left turn into her and totaled her car. The drunk was already on a high risk insurance plan in Indianapolis.

The adjuster I was working with offered about half what the car was worth. The car was a Buick Century, and he based his offer on the lowest priced, stripped down model that year, while the car actually had every available option, including a factory sun roof. The adjuster wouldn't budge on his offer.

I figured the value of the car from 4 different price guides and averaged them for the price I wanted. I tacked on for substitute transportation. I then wrote a letter supporting my price and arguing against the adjuster's offer, and went to the Nebraska Department of Insurance and filed a complaint against the insurance company. Once a complaint is filed, the company has 15 days to respond.

I loved this. On the afternoon of the 13th day, the adjuster called me at work. He said "they had reason to review my claim" and just happened to up the offer to almost the exact dollar amount of what I asked for. In other words, the Nebraska Insurance Department told his company to get real or they were history in Nebraska.

You have to stand your ground with adjusters. I've dealt with a few since, and the fact that I was once an adjuster myself helped. The bottom line is, you don't have to take their first offer.

Old motor vehicle titles and computers

JDEM

Well-known Member

rockyridgefarm

Well-known Member

JML755

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Traditional Farmer

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wvfarmboy

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JDEM

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kcm.MN

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jeffcat

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Denny K

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kcm.MN

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W_B

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kcm.MN

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kcm.MN

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RedMF40

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kcm.MN

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RBoots

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Ray

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Goose

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