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When new is not better

jon f mn

jon f mn

Well-known Member
Trucks have had standard steel drain plugs in the oil pan for most of 100 years and they have worked great. So of course someone had to come up with a better idea, a disposable single use, plastic drain plug, that costs $16 each oil change. Can't say I'm real pleased today. Lol
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I've been saying for years that engineering reached it's peak years ago. Since that time, the majority of engineers have done nothing but come up with stupid ideas, such as this, to justify their jobs.
 
(quoted from post at 21:06:19 05/11/17) Trucks have had standard steel drain plugs in the oil pan for most of 100 years and they have worked great. So of course someone had to come up with a better idea, a disposable single use, plastic drain plug, that costs $16 each oil change. Can't say I'm real pleased today. Lol
a159953.jpg
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Another way to suck money out of your pocket...
 
About the way software is also.

Version one is neat, new idea, cool, but a little um, missing the finer points.

Version 2 works the bugs out, as good as it gets!

Version three, that's when the trouble begins, they run out of good ideas, but need to sell you an upgrade, so they add junk no one needs, slows everything down, and gets in your way. Blah.

Paul
 
As evidenced by anyone who has purchased a new Stihl product and had to deal with those rediculous flippy caps on the fuel tanks.
 
The updated flip caps are quite nice. Takes a while to learn how to align them but then they work well. Makes you forget about having to find your scrench to open the tank.
 
I wonder why?

Maybe grease monkeys have been stripping out so many oil pans that fleets demanded a plug with which it was impossible to wreck the pan.
 
So what happens when you go to get your oil changed and someone forgot to order the oil plugs?
 
I never needed a wrench to remove a cap from a saw and didnt need lessons to screw a cap on or off, LOL.
There is no middle ground with flippy caps, love or hate. I hate, they are called Stihl leg oilers by saw people. Run a saw enough hours you will find out why.
 
Looks like the trans. oil fill cap on my Jeep Patriot!! No dipstick! A mere mortal is not allowed near! I just had it serviced to the tune of $325.
 
Oh, oh. You got me started.
While I think government should stay out of our day-to-day running of life, there are some things that need to change with manufacturers.
Years ago, certain models of a Cadillac or a Chevy Chevette could have their heater cores changed with the hood up. Now, 8 hours later, you have to tear the dash out to change a heater core on most vehicles. If somebody made the car manufacturers have a lifetime warranty on heater cores, I guarantee you that the heater core would immediately be an item that is simple to change.
As for this plug, I wonder how they justify the price of it...considering there used to be more plastic in the prize of a Cracker Jack.
 
All engineers should, after college, but before being awarded their degree, have to work for a couple of years in the field they are going to "engineer".
 
I second this comment. For some reason I never have problems with the gas cap, but twice I've dumped all the bar oil out because I didn't have the cap properly seated.
 
I've never understood why automobile engineers have never been able to design an engine where one could change the oil and filter without old oil dripping off the frame, etc. when finished.
 
(quoted from post at 08:28:45 05/12/17) All engineers should, after college, but before being awarded their degree, have to work for a couple of years in the field they are going to "engineer".
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BRILLIANT idea!
 
Looks like what a certain generator company did with a housing. To check the battery or change it. It takes three people to remove the side wall. To get to the battery.
 
One question I don't see anyone asking ....... how do you design something that is "single use only" and cannot be used at least once more? Does it self-destruct when you remove it? In other words, what prevents you from using it again? Maybe it's designed to leak and cause an engine failure ..... well, just joking about that but my first question still stands.
 
The engineers are instructed by the manufacturer to come up with these ideas. They make a huge profit off the parts and the dealer needs the labor hours to survive so they work hand in hand.
 
RIGHT ON THE MONEY !

I see that here at work all the time. They have to do something to keep their job in demand.
 
(quoted from post at 04:50:16 05/12/17) I've never understood why automobile engineers have never been able to design an engine where one could change the oil and filter without old oil dripping off the frame, etc. when finished.
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I could deal with that.

What drives me nuts is having the oil filter absolutely BURIED among the HOT exhaust manifold and pipes on my 8.1L Chevy engine, with only enough room to get your bare arm and hand up in there.

There is no way to change the oil "properly" (i.e. HOT) without ending up with at least 2rd degree burns!
 
Just to state---- I am a Mechanical Engineer but if I was in design we would have a lot of different stuff. What takes the cake for me is in my wifes Chrysler convertible year 1999 you have to put the car on a lift and remove the tire to change the battery
 
Like the new OUTLOOK EXPRESS They divided the inbox to FOCUSED AND OTHER. Another step to go thru to check emails.
It was close this time but any more improvements and I'll be looking for a new e-mail.
 
Silly engineering is not a new idea. I have a '63 Buick with factory air conditioning. To remove the heater core, the right bucket seat has to come out along with the entire console, the carpet on the right side, the crash pad under the dash, the tissue dispenser, the radio, the heater/air conditioning controls, which are pot metal and cables (these need to come apart so they won't break) and most of the instrument panel, including the glove box has to come apart. Then you remove the heater hoses under the hood, the clamps are buried under the blower plenum. It makes the project easier if you have a service manual so you can find the one hidden bolt. If you do not find the hidden bolt and you pull on the case to get it out, it will break and a replacement has to be found. IF you find a replacement in a junkyard somewhere, the same procedure has to be followed to get IT out. After the heater core is successfully replaced, those cables have to be adjusted so everything will work again. Be careful not to strip the threads in the 50+ year old plastic couplers used to adjust the cables. GRRRR!
 
I agree! I work everyday with design engineers and see the stupid stuff they try, then the test engineers are left to make it work. Had an intern engineer one time that was in the test cell as we were trying to get an large diesel engine started say we should check the spark plugs! Boy did we give him a hard time!
 
X2- when it showed up a couple of days ago, there was a survey...said since you"ve been using it for A WHILE, how did we do? HUH? So I told them what I thought of it...
 


The designers figured no body would squawk about an added $16.00 on top of a $200.00 oil and filter change!
 
Oil changes are $250 now, but with all the extras with this truck its $350. The $16 is just one up
charge, there are 2 additional $30+ charges for filters as well.
 
Q

Mark B MI has it right. How many threads a year on the idiot PO who didn't have a replacement washer or gasket so he just kept pulling it tighter until it stopped, and the next owner had to replace the pan after pulling the Threaded ring out with the plug. Must be a lot of people do like Jim Buford and go out and buy the most expensive of everything. If they didn't, nothing would sell what with all the manufatueres making their products as expensive as they can in order to make higher profit.
 
(quoted from post at 09:05:04 05/12/17) Oil changes are $250 now, but with all the extras with this truck its $350. The $16 is just one up
charge, there are 2 additional $30+ charges for filters as well.
Click to expand...

What did this cost on your old truck? Can you go more miles between oil changes on the new truck?
 
My wife has an '04 Sebring and I agree the battery location is just plain stupid. We bought a 2013 Dodge Journey last fall that is not bad to change the oil on. Can reach the drain from the side in front of the tire. The filter is an element type on top of the engine. Remove the cap and the oil drains down through the engine and you just lift the element out with the cap and install the new one. Don't ask me how long it took to find the filter the first time crawling around underneath.
 
That's the truth! I had a 1988 Mustang GT, had to put two drain plugs in the oil pan. The rack & pinion steering box had to bolt above the bottom of the oil pan, so they put a hump in the bottom of g he pan. The front drain plug drained out exactly on the front sway bar so hot oil splashed all over.

Son had a 1993 F-150 Lightning pickup, any F-150 with 351W and probably 302 V-8 had the same situation where you had to remove the oil filter through the left lower suspension arm. Hard not to spill hot oil there either.

Just shows how Ford power train engineers and Ford Chassis engineers can't or won't talk to each Other!

So my Half Breed F-250 4wd has an International engine in it, 7.3L PSD. All 14 quarts of oil, 2 qts from the filter and 12 qts from the pan drain easily into a single 5 gallon bucket. Do you suppose anyone from Ford talked to anyone at International? God I hope not!
 
The trend is to suck the oil out thur the dip stick tube. As to why a plastic pan "weight" they get EPA mileage credits toward every pound they can shed.

Back to suck'N the oil out get use to it, its headed your way.. I have only seen one like that part of the pan was plastic to replace the part that was plastic is a 15 min job. I guess the guys that dread a stripped plug have found your fix...

If you can not remove by hand after you break it free you probably need a new plug. If you can not run it up till it seats by hand you probably need a plug... Oil plugs are a consumable if in doubt replace it are suffer from damaged threads in the pan. The plug its self is soft metal once the threads distort it will damage the threads in the oil pan...

Steel plugs are not cheap either...
 
Jon,

I swear, I wish I could have an auto company that'd make things like they were. Disk brakes, power steering, auto transmission, easily maintained, roll up windows, even a stick shift, if needed, perhaps.

The temperature within the cab would be adjusted by a dial, the brakes would be "on your own", I would dumb down everything, if I could. No airbags unless requested.

Problem is, everyone wants everything for nothing. The readily available lawsuits that would come about would strip me of anything I earned.

In short, I hate the engineering that excludes maintenance and upkeep, and especially when I have to go to a specialized auto place to de-code what's going on.

D.
 
The old truck was a standard oil change, about $225 at most truck stops. This one was $467.00 which included a $64 gallon of synthetic gear lube for the differentials which were low and $16 for a gallon of premixed anti freeze.
 
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