Kind of wet here with not much chance of doing anything for a while. I looked at the IH dealers of the past website for NY. It got me thinking as to if there was a "Golden Age" to the machinery business when was it? I would have to guess from the early 1940's to the mid 1950's for around here. US farmers were contributing food to the war effort and then the Marshall Plan fed Europe for several years after WWII. I have to wonder after pumping H's and M's out by the dozen if it was not a let down for a dealer once the mid 1950's hit and you were selling maybe 4-6 400's per year down to 3-5 560's by 1960. It seems a lot of change happened in terms of dealer numbers shrinking during the late 1950's and early 1960's. Probably the greater shrink was around WWI and just after but with the automobile becoming wide spread there was not a need to have a dealer in every town. Incidentally, the IH list is incomplete but that is to be expected as they probably have no official list to work from. Just the memory of those who were around back in the day. Not that I live in their trade area but I did not see Addison Farm Supply or Ortner's. I just remember seeing all these names in American Agriculturalist and Hoard's Dairyman back in the 1970's.
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- Thread starter NY 986
- Start date
I think it was at least the mid 60s around here before things started to peter out. Maybe even later than that. By the early 80s,that's when things really started to hit the fan and we lost the bulk of the Oliver/White dealers,a Ford dealer and an AC dealer. A couple of local Deere dealers went by the mid 80s.
Funny you should bring it up,because I was just thinking this morning about car dealers,and to a lesser extent farm equipment dealers in small rural towns,and how there was an actual need for a dealer of either persuasion that sold just a few new units,but ran a good repair shop for whatever they were selling. It seems like they got in trouble when one generation was ready to retire,and the next generation thought a new,larger location on the edge of town was a good idea,then hard times hit before it was paid for. Of course then came the college boys at the corporate level who decided to set sales quotas,or looked at a map and said "We don't need a dealer in that little burg.".
Funny you should bring it up,because I was just thinking this morning about car dealers,and to a lesser extent farm equipment dealers in small rural towns,and how there was an actual need for a dealer of either persuasion that sold just a few new units,but ran a good repair shop for whatever they were selling. It seems like they got in trouble when one generation was ready to retire,and the next generation thought a new,larger location on the edge of town was a good idea,then hard times hit before it was paid for. Of course then came the college boys at the corporate level who decided to set sales quotas,or looked at a map and said "We don't need a dealer in that little burg.".
I don't know that the generational transition was responsible for anything bad locally. Two of the local Deere dealers back in the 1960's were located in the village of where they did business. By then it was not practical to do business in the village for a variety of reasons. Going out on the edge of town allowed for a larger lot for the larger equipment that was coming out. The one Deere dealer could not get a 45 combine in his shop nor a cab equipped 4020. It did not make sense to build a modern shop in a residential neighborhood with the neighbors having less connection to farming than a generation ago. Neighbors who do not feel a kinship to farmers and by extension dealers are less tolerant of running a tractor on a dynamometer for a couple hours or hearing air wrenches buzz or a sledgehammer beating on an implement. I agree that the corporate pinheads for the most part did the dealers very few favors regardless of what brand was represented.
In the early 1980's there were 7 tractor dealerships in our small town. Today there are two. John Deere and Kubota. The Kubota dealership has the same owner that once sold AC, but dropped AC and went to the Kubota line. So JD is actually the only one to survive of the original 7. The rest all being out of business by 1990.
The one's I'm thinking of weren't necessarily right in the middle of downtown,although I can think of a few that were. Most were in town with a sales lot across the street,or just down the block. They were the old block or brick stand alone buildings with big windows in the showroom. There are a fair number of new steel frame buildings farther out of town that were built to replace them that are either empty or have been turned in to some kind of surplus store or some such thing. Way more than just one or two.
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
Seemed like there was a discard of some of the real small local guys during the 60's as the companies started to require the dealers to have larger shops for the bigger equipment coming out some with cabs.
Then the next real big discard was during the 80's when things seemed to fold up fast with low crop prices and increased costs. Then in the 90's to 2000's the conglomeration of dealers by some of the more capable ones.
Best made equipment was in the 40's to the 80's, most conveniences was in the last 15 years.
Then the next real big discard was during the 80's when things seemed to fold up fast with low crop prices and increased costs. Then in the 90's to 2000's the conglomeration of dealers by some of the more capable ones.
Best made equipment was in the 40's to the 80's, most conveniences was in the last 15 years.
I've seen those kind of buildings as well although it was quite a time after those same buildings were a home to a farm equipment dealer. The one JD dealer elected to close shortly after the 4020's came out. The territory was not big enough to support it anymore and the competing JD dealers had far better territories with a firm grip on them. Most of them were in vegetable crop country where they could expect to sell 6-10 4020's per year versus the local's 1 or 2 per year. Back to the local dealer they were out-sizing their facilities in terms of parts, service, and sales so they had a pressing need to expand facilities or get out.
Hay hay hay
Well-known Member
In the "50's and '60's the farms were 160 acres. Every farmer bought equipment and vehicles. The cars, trucks and tractors were simple.
Today 1 guy farms all 1600 acres and instead of 10 customers, the dealer has only 1. Simple math.
Markets in the really small town can not support the volume needed to pay for the special computers,training and tools to fix the new products. Just because you bought it locally, does not mean you excuse the dealer for not being able to fix what he sold you. Also since 90% of all vehicles are sold out of stock... the little guy is at a real disadvantage.
Add to that the fact that all the customers are willing to drive 30 miles just for groceries,(and why not shop for a car while there) and all the pieces of the puzzle begin to fall in place.
If the town can not support a supermarket, it sure can not support a dealership.
Today 1 guy farms all 1600 acres and instead of 10 customers, the dealer has only 1. Simple math.
Markets in the really small town can not support the volume needed to pay for the special computers,training and tools to fix the new products. Just because you bought it locally, does not mean you excuse the dealer for not being able to fix what he sold you. Also since 90% of all vehicles are sold out of stock... the little guy is at a real disadvantage.
Add to that the fact that all the customers are willing to drive 30 miles just for groceries,(and why not shop for a car while there) and all the pieces of the puzzle begin to fall in place.
If the town can not support a supermarket, it sure can not support a dealership.
Around 1960 most farms here were 60 to 100 acres in size. The canning factories were closing in the marginal areas so a lot of local farms went to small dairy and others hay for sale. A fair number of boys were still staying on the farm so quite a few farms opted to buy used equipment instead of new to keep an additional son home. As said before in the better veg crop areas things were a little more prosperous so the demand for new equipment was greater. The local JD dealer's best years were probably 1940-1955 and were snug in terms of facilities. Going from an A to a 60 to a 620 to a 630 did not require much space increase in the parts department. But to go from the 2 cylinders to a 4010 to a 4020 to a 4230 in a little over a decade strains space. Same with implements with 2 5 X 16 plows taking up a lot more space than 2 2 X 14 plows.
Moonlite37
Well-known Member
In the 1950's you always got the part you needed from the dealer's shelf. When I worked as a mechanic first at Ford and later at Allis Chalmers, we always got a trade-in that was a bargain to buy. I remember the ones I would like to have bought but did not have the cash. 9 N with loader $500 , Allis Chalmers one row picker $ 100 B Farmall new paint .cultivator (smoked) $250 IHC 27-V mower $25.
Around here in central Ohio it was from the mid 50's to the late 70's,, I know when I worked at the local Deere dealership we were unloading and setting new equipment near every day in the early to mid 70's, and as far as a good parts supply there were a lot more "common" parts used at that time so because of that the dealer did not need as much inventory then..
We had 100s of machinery lines when horses got pastured in favor of tractors and implements.
Over time cycles of the ecconomy has whittled that down with consolidations and bankruptcies.
Generally if there was a good time, there was also a nearby bad time!
The 70s were pretty good. Oliver, Ford/NH, Allis Chalmers, JD, IHC, and Case were all in town.
Today we have not a one. Oliver left in the 70s, Case and Allis folded in the early 80s, IHC left a few years later, NH slowed down to a parts place, then lost that a decade ago became a Kubota dealer, lost that, and now fixes a few tractors.
JD merged up with 3, then 5, then 20 dealerships and was downsized into I think 12 dealerships, none local any more in the past decade.
I would guess the 70s, early 70s, was the sweet spot. 2008-2015 probably was pretty good as well. After WWII was also likely pretty good, as mentioned.
I'm not sure we will have the same relationship going forward with dealers as we did in the past. They are all conforming to 20-100 dealership mega stores that don't offer much service. It's different than it used to be.
Paul
Over time cycles of the ecconomy has whittled that down with consolidations and bankruptcies.
Generally if there was a good time, there was also a nearby bad time!
The 70s were pretty good. Oliver, Ford/NH, Allis Chalmers, JD, IHC, and Case were all in town.
Today we have not a one. Oliver left in the 70s, Case and Allis folded in the early 80s, IHC left a few years later, NH slowed down to a parts place, then lost that a decade ago became a Kubota dealer, lost that, and now fixes a few tractors.
JD merged up with 3, then 5, then 20 dealerships and was downsized into I think 12 dealerships, none local any more in the past decade.
I would guess the 70s, early 70s, was the sweet spot. 2008-2015 probably was pretty good as well. After WWII was also likely pretty good, as mentioned.
I'm not sure we will have the same relationship going forward with dealers as we did in the past. They are all conforming to 20-100 dealership mega stores that don't offer much service. It's different than it used to be.
Paul
I would think the 1970's were one of the best times for farm equipment dealers. In Iowa the farm economy was very good, livestock was profitable too. Farms were expanding fast, banks were loaning out big money for land and equipment. 100 HP and larger tractors were hot sellers along with larger implements and larger combines. Any tractor with a quiet cab was on back order with a waiting list of buyers. Low hour three to five year old tractors were being traded-in for new cab tractors. In western Iowa most small dealers had lost their franchises, so each brand only had one maybe two dealers in any county, so there was not a lot of competition between dealers.
The one local IH dealer never really had much in-brand competition during its existence. They ran 25 miles to the north and 25 miles to the south and seldom saw another IH dealer trying to run in their territory. Nearest IH dealer to them was around 15 miles to the West. A similar situation with AC in our county. No surprise that each lasted into the 1980's. When I think about the in-brand competition the one JD dealer had it is amazing. They had 3 competing JD dealers within 15 miles and another 4 on top of that if you went 25 miles away. More yet if you went to Ithaca which is where the IH dealer considered his southern boundary to be along with Watkins Glen.
OK,but now these Deermart chains have smaller locations that cater to the lawn and garden market and sell the sub compacts. Maybe they don't where you live,but they do here. I'll have to see if somebody who knows,has an answer because I've never been to one. Do they sell things like hay tools? Discbines,rakes,balers? I don't think they do. If not,why not? Why do some of their horsey customers have to drive to one of their larger stores or try to get them to drop parts from a larger store to one of these weekender stores?
Some areas of the country aren't suited for large scale ag and big equipment. Why not have small dealers that sell the smaller stuff in small towns in areas like that? Are there sales quotas that have to be met there too,in places where parts and service are as important to customers as sales,if not more important?
I guess what I'm getting at is,why all the Midwest goals and expectations in other parts of the country?
Some areas of the country aren't suited for large scale ag and big equipment. Why not have small dealers that sell the smaller stuff in small towns in areas like that? Are there sales quotas that have to be met there too,in places where parts and service are as important to customers as sales,if not more important?
I guess what I'm getting at is,why all the Midwest goals and expectations in other parts of the country?
Around here it was the 1946 thur 1953, But after that it was certain models. My brother was talking to the IH dealer that he was working for and asked him about tractor sales. The dealer told him that as soon as the WWII war restrictions were put on their were more requests then tractors. He told where someone would come in asking about buying one and the dealer would fill out a sheet with his name,address,phone number, and what tractor he was interested in and put it in his desk drawer. The next guy would come in he would do the same, putting that guys sheet underneath the first ones. When a tractor would come in, no matter the model, The dealer would pull out the top sheet and get ahold of the farmer and ask him if he was interested in the tractor he had or not. If he wasn't then he would go to the next sheet so on and so forth. The farmers would do that to all different equipment dealers. If the John Deere dealer got in a model A, but the farmer wanted a Farmall M, He would wait until someone else would get a M or H. He would ask him if he really wanted an A, If he did then they would trade. The dealer said that he didn't run out of sheets and names until about 1953!
I guess the "residential" locations are allowed a small selection of low HP ag tractors, hay equipment, and materials handling. Under certain circumstances they can order the full range of ag parts whether sold there previously or not.
To answer your last question everybody wants to follow Cat in terms of very few dealers and more control over customers.
I am not in favor of consolidation regardless of the brand. In some ways it is worse for New Holland in the area as Rochester has no immediate service from NH via its dealers. This can't help NH sell its compact tractors and related tools there. If you are in a Rochester suburb wanting to buy a new NH you have to go at a minimum of an hour in most directions to test drive a NH. Deere just did the consolidation thing here very recently but they did not eliminate dealer locations meant to drive the Rochester consumer market.
To answer your last question everybody wants to follow Cat in terms of very few dealers and more control over customers.
I am not in favor of consolidation regardless of the brand. In some ways it is worse for New Holland in the area as Rochester has no immediate service from NH via its dealers. This can't help NH sell its compact tractors and related tools there. If you are in a Rochester suburb wanting to buy a new NH you have to go at a minimum of an hour in most directions to test drive a NH. Deere just did the consolidation thing here very recently but they did not eliminate dealer locations meant to drive the Rochester consumer market.
tom stalker
Member
I'm lucky in my area
NH, Case, Kubota and JD all with 15 miles
I want to modify what I said in the first paragraph. The area JD dealer has a residential or consumer location just 10 minutes from my in-laws. I have seen small new JD round balers in the yard there along with the Frontier line of implements. I've been by other JD consumer dealers that have no farm locations and at those dealers I have never seen the hay equipment sitting in their yard. On the other hand I have never asked these same dealers if it was possible to order hay tools and materials handling if a customer asked.
1940's-1970's because of ww2. comodity prices very good .I was told $2.70 wheat and $2700 would buy a new case LA. lots of new equipment in fact by 1950 none of the 1920's equipment in service. now my newest tractor 25 years old
in the early 1970's farm equipment dealers could not keep up with demand 10 years later they could no longer give equipment away.
I remember conversations about the 40 50's 60's
I remember 70's but really remember 80's
in the early 1970's farm equipment dealers could not keep up with demand 10 years later they could no longer give equipment away.
I remember conversations about the 40 50's 60's
I remember 70's but really remember 80's
I have to agree with you there. We live in a mainly potato area and you would not believe the lots full of incredible new equipment. The New Holland/Kubota dealership is 50 mi from here. They carry a lot of hay equipment along with big (not usually huge) tillage equipment and everything blue from 25 hp-330. The Agco dealerships 100 mi from here and they just moved into a new location. They keep lots of new Challanger,Massey and Fendt tractors,tillage equipment Claas balers Rogator sprayers potato equipment. There's also 3 John Deere dealers within 100 mi of here and 1 Case dealer as well.
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