O.T.---Patented

I have made a simple tool that is not currently manufactured, as far as I have researched.
Anyone have any experience in applying for a Patent?

I have heard it costs a lot of money to get one.

I would hire a patent lawyer to do a search first. It could be somebody has already filed a patent close enough to your product to preclude you producing it. It does not matter that nobody is producing it at the moment. If it proves that you can patent your idea you will probably use a patent lawyer to file your patent. My understanding is that it takes a few thousand dollars just to do the search. I have had a few ideas but with the advent of google I have found somebody has beat me to it by quite some time every time.

I had around ten patents when I was working but the company owns them. Take about three years from the time you apply to get it issued if it's approved. In recent years the US patent office is swamped so they hire a lot of people to review applications and they're not always competent or reviewing inventions that are in their field of expertise. A reputable patent attorney is the way to go but last I heard the cost could be around $30,000 for the whole process. The downside is that if somebody copies your invention it's up to you to enforce the patent.

Google has a patent search page. Try looking there to see if something similar has been patented. Then decide if you want to go ahead with it. I used to think that if I thought of it about a thousand others already have, but that's not necessarily true. The tests are uniqueness and obviousness. Good luck.

Yep a patent is no guarantee some overseas company won't steal your idea and start selling them cheaper. Who's going to stop them ? The same people who are (not) stopping the scammers ?

Jiles, just send me some very detailed
pictures of it and maybe some blueprints,
and I'll tell you if it's a good idea or
not. LOL, kidding aside, glad you were able
to come up with something interesting enough
to possibly patent! Good luck with it

I have a couple patents (assigned to my employer) and we basically quit applying for patents due to the cost. And the cost to enforce a patent if you find someone is selling it. What we found is make it well, make it cost effective, and stand behind it; the market will take it from there.

If you would like, I will accept confidentiality, (here as public documentation) on your art (the term for
the idea and drawings) I will evaluate it and give you direct feedback. Send the content by registered
mail to James A. Nicholson St. Cloud State University, 729 4th AVE S., Headley Hall Room 216, St Cloud
Minnesota 56301. I have 2 and My brother has one. It will not be shared with anyone. Copy the date, and
send it by registered mail to a relitive and have them not open it, but put it on a safe shelf. Jim

Sounds about right to cover all the bases here in the US and Canada. I don't know what it takes once you do it internationally.

Jiles,
I know a man who owns a few patents on his inventions. He said it costs a lot
of money to pay for a patent search. Then once you get one, the Chinese will
steel it and you are out of a lot of money.

Another man has the patient on the device that you see blinking on the rear of
all trains. It replaced the caboose. He has a full time lawyer and a team of
people who is constantly making changes to the device so he can keep his
patient from expiring.

If you ask me, not really worth it.

good luck.

One cannot prevent the expiration of a patent by making changes to the art.

Yes, continuation practice may extend the expiration date a bit but the patent will eventually expire.

Dean

Dean,
Not totally sure how it done but Drug companies extent their patients. According to an engineer that works for Eli Lillie they do it.

This guy does it all the time with his device, not sure how, but he does it claiming he make changes to device. Either he gets a new patient or an extension. How long have you seen the blinking device on the rear of a train? He is still getting a check each month for his invention.

I'm sure there are more details to this story that we aren't aware of.
geo

You can do it yourself. Go to the
library in a large town and do a patent
search. The librarian will show you
how. I have done it before. It might
even give you an idea for another
patent.

I invented a product for the hog industry years back. Talked to an attorney about patent and he asked me who else would be most likely to start building them? I named a couple of large manufacturing co. in
the area. He said-right-and when they want to start copying them, they will so you will have to sue them. They will get their hot shot lawyers to tie it up in court until you are broke. His advise was to
take the patent money and spend it on advertising. Then get out there and sell as many as you can before competitors start building them. Then quit so they don't sue you.

Flying Belgian - Exactly!

I tried to make a post but the system isn't allowing it for some reason. Sent a message to admin to find out why.

Jiles I am not giving you patent advice BUT TALK TO A LAWYER ABOUT IT. Ask about possibly a licence deal with a tool company. There are companies out there that do this stuff and then make the product and distribute it. They probably take most of the money!!! If all else fails go on shark tank!!!

jocco's got an idea. I know K&D tools does this for automotive tools. It's on their packaging.

As was mentioned above, acquiring a patent is very expensive. I have experience with patents in the chemical industry and it is not unusual to pay over 60k and even then the patent may not be issued due to prior art. I once spent over 80k of investor's money on a patent that was never issued due to prior art (though I disagreed with the examiner's opinion and felt my invention was original). Also, having a patent does not guarantee freedom to operate, i.e. even though you got the patent another patent holder may sue you for infringement and could win.

Filing a provisional patent disclosure is relatively cheap and straightforward. This is a short-version disclosure to the patent office that puts your idea on record after which you have one year to file the non-provisional (I think that deadline can be extended, for additional lawyer fees, but not sure). After making a provisional disclosure you can then more-safely talk to potential investors. If you can find investors who believe the idea is worthwhile, they will pay the subsequent fees for the full patent. If you can't find interested investors, there is probably not any serious money to be made. At that point, you could try to manufacture the invention yourself, since it would be unlikely to draw significant competition, and you may make a good personal income running a cottage-industry level operation.

(quoted from post at 00:02:11 03/16/17) As was mentioned above, acquiring a patent is very expensive. I have experience with patents in the chemical industry and it is not unusual to pay over 60k and even then the patent may not be issued due to prior art. I once spent over 80k of investor's money on a patent that was never issued due to prior art (though I disagreed with the examiner's opinion and felt my invention was original). Also, having a patent does not guarantee freedom to operate, i.e. even though you got the patent another patent holder may sue you for infringement and could win.

Filing a provisional patent disclosure is relatively cheap and straightforward. This is a short-version disclosure to the patent office that puts your idea on record after which you have one year to file the non-provisional (I think that deadline can be extended, for additional lawyer fees, but not sure). After making a provisional disclosure you can then more-safely talk to potential investors. If you can find investors who believe the idea is worthwhile, they will pay the subsequent fees for the full patent. If you can't find interested investors, there is probably not any serious money to be made. At that point, you could try to manufacture the invention yourself, since it would be unlikely to draw significant competition, and you may make a good personal income running a cottage-industry level operation.

Click to expand...

I may decide to just market it myself. This is a really simple tool used for more simple assembly of parts. So simple I am surprised I have not seen it elsewhere.
I can easily manufacture as many as I can sell.
This is not a tool in great demand but eliminates a lot of hassle and damaged parts with assembly.
Turns a ten minute job into less then a minute.

I am named as an inventor on quite a few patents that are assigned to my employer (a major
equipment OEM) so I'm familiar with the process. As others have said, being granted a patent is
a time-consuming and very expensive proposition. A person/company must have a sound financial
incentive to go through the process in order for it to make sense. So, the first question you
need to ask yourself is what financial benefit a patent would be for you. If the projected
payback doesn't offset the expense of getting it there is little point to the effort.

Another thing to be aware of is that for a person/company to violate someone else's patent is not
a crime - it happens all the time. There are times that a company will knowingly violate a
patent with the expectation that the patent holder won't defend it. Or, they believe that the
patent is weak and won't hold up in court if it is defended. (Again, this is a civil court, not
criminal.) If you're not willing to bear the price of defending your patent - a process that
could easily cost more than getting it in the first place - the patent has little real value.

To be granted a patent requires claiming very specific details, not just something in general.
If the specifics about the invention aren't what makes the overall invention "work" than there
are probably going to be ways to circumvent the patent claims and end up with essentially the
same thing in the end. This happens all the time as well - engineers carefully read patents to
find ways of doing essentially the same thing without infringement.

One more thing to know is that there are many, many patents obtained by companies with no
expectation of ever actually producing what is claimed. This is done for a variety of reasons
such as creating roadblocks for competitors and to gain "bargaining chips" to be traded with
competitors if they have something you want. So, just because you've never seen something in
production doesn't mean the concept isn't already patented. Or, the same thing might have been
produced years ago and is thus "public domain" and unpatentable. It would take a patent attorney
(often with a triple-digit per hour rate) to dig through the system to find out.

I can see by the replies, no one here has actual patent experience. I do...... Patent# 9068 395.

Go to the United States Patent website, and do your own search. Do your own search for your own personal curiosity. Don't pay anyone to do a search for you. When the time comes, the United States Patent office (Agent) will do a search for free. That's there job.....to do a search, and shoot your invention down. In the old days you would pay to have a search done. In todays world, with internet, do your own search.

Before putting out money to get a patent started, write to companies that may be interested in your product. Tell them what your product is/does, without going into detail. If no replies, don't waste your time, and money on a patent. Should you get replies, have a NON DISCLOSURE agreement drawn up, and signed by all parties BEFORE DISCLOSING. There is another one year rule I kind of forget. Goes something like; not being able to patent if used in public for more than one year, or something like that.

Don't waste your money on a provisional patent. A provisional patent is only good for one year. If you're not there to re-apply, someone else can steal your invention. The United States Patent office is backed up way longer than a year. Took me 4 years to get mine.

A patent is good for 20 years, providing you make the required maintenance payments. Not sure about extensions. You can not patent an idea.

My patent cost me upward of $10,000.00. There's no guarantee you will be awarded a patent. Should you be awarded a patent, it doesn't stop there. A good patent attorney will continuously try to broaden your patent, which adds additional costs. Broadening the patent means; adding additional protection around the basic patent so it's less likely for someone to do a design change.

Someone can still copy your invention exactly to a "T". It's not illegal to copy someone's invention. All the patent does is give you legal grounds to stop them. Make them pay royalties, etc......and then they get three different kinds of warnings before things get ugly.

You will have a hard time finding a private patent attorney. Not many around. Corporate patent attorneys are a dime, a dozen. They work for large corporations, and are not interested in the little guy. The large corporations get patents all the time. When first hired, an employee signs a bunch of legal documents. One of the documents is stating any invention during employment belongs to the corporation. The patent is always in the inventors name. If the inventor works for a corporation, the corporation owns the patent.

If you've never done a patent before, I suggest NOT applying yourself. Too much involved. You can hire a patent agent for less money than a patent attorney. However, a patent agent does not have the legal representation that an actual patent attorney has.

From what I can see, a patent is really a rich mans game. My patent attorney said to me; it's the only game in town.

Why did I go for the patent? First off, I know I have a good invention. Second; I'll never know, if I don't go for it. I didn't want to go the rest of my life saying "WHAT IF". This can go further, into foreign patents, which cost a lot more money. From what I'm told by my patent attorney, a foreign patent can take 10+ years. Again, no guarantee.

Hope I was able to answered some of your questions on patents. Everything I mentioned was from my own personal experience, as well as advice from my patent attorney.

I knew a guy who wanted to patent color number books for wire markers. He went to a lawyer who told him it was not a patentable idea just do it. He spend about 5 grand on a printer who could make colored coded wire marker books . Halfway through the printing job the printer calls him and says you better go on this website Patent Scope because someone has a patent on this already. He calls the lawyer who does not now return his calls. So he can't market them so he gives away the number books on jobs and when we pull wire the ink comes off. Fail. But my other friend got a patent himself for an invention Doggie Dumpster poop scoop thing and after getting all cleared through customs [China] he started selling a bunch of them and got shut down by someone else's patent the covered some facet of his scoop that they patented first thus shutting him down . But I can get you a free doggie scoop if you want.

Whoops, I see a few others with experience replied before I finished typing. Yes, all good advise.....

Young neighbor got a patent over 15 years ago- made the local papers...cost him ten grand. Haven"t seen it on the market yet. It was adding two hyd cyl to a gravity box to tip the box a bit to empty it easier.

Turns a ten minute job into less then a minute. I will buy one.

Oliver power - You covered several of the points I tried to make, but my post wouldn't go through for some reason. ...Plus, you explained it better.

Also, I thought that a provisional patent would be a good thing - but then I didn't realize the USPTO was backed up as far as that.

Good advise, Brendon.

Dean, who is a (retired) patent attorney.

Continuation practice can sometimes extend the term a bit but there is no such thing as a patent extension.

One can, of course, apply for patents for other related inventions but issuance will depend upon prior art, obviousness, etc.

Dean, retired patent attorney

Dean,
Perhaps patient extension isn't the correct lawyer's terminology. But the guy who invented the device on the rear of the train is doing something to continue to benefit on his device long after a patent would have lasted. Explain how he does it. Inventor claims there is an easy to do it. Above my pay grade.

Here is what I found when it comes to drugs.

Strategies for Extending the Life of Patents
To maximize patent term, seek patent protection for new formulations, new methods of use, and potential combination products.
patent extension

Other people will infringe on your patent because they know that it will cost you way too much money to defend the patent in court, especially on small items. When you think that you have something patentable and defendable, keep your mouth shut - - don't tell ANYONE about it until you are ready to sell it in the marketplace. I've known people who talked to too many people before they ever built the model and applied for the patent - only to find that someone else had filed on it before you did. It's a tough world out there; work smart!

(quoted from post at 16:19:56 03/15/17)

(quoted from post at 00:02:11 03/16/17) As was mentioned above, acquiring a patent is very expensive. I have experience with patents in the chemical industry and it is not unusual to pay over 60k and even then the patent may not be issued due to prior art. I once spent over 80k of investor's money on a patent that was never issued due to prior art (though I disagreed with the examiner's opinion and felt my invention was original). Also, having a patent does not guarantee freedom to operate, i.e. even though you got the patent another patent holder may sue you for infringement and could win.

Filing a provisional patent disclosure is relatively cheap and straightforward. This is a short-version disclosure to the patent office that puts your idea on record after which you have one year to file the non-provisional (I think that deadline can be extended, for additional lawyer fees, but not sure). After making a provisional disclosure you can then more-safely talk to potential investors. If you can find investors who believe the idea is worthwhile, they will pay the subsequent fees for the full patent. If you can't find interested investors, there is probably not any serious money to be made. At that point, you could try to manufacture the invention yourself, since it would be unlikely to draw significant competition, and you may make a good personal income running a cottage-industry level operation.

Click to expand...

I may decide to just market it myself. This is a really simple tool used for more simple assembly of parts. So simple I am surprised I have not seen it elsewhere.
I can easily manufacture as many as I can sell.
This is not a tool in great demand but eliminates a lot of hassle and damaged parts with assembly.
Turns a ten minute job into less then a minute.

Click to expand...

Jiles, It sounds like you need a website instead of a patent. I noticed a site yesterday for a DIY website that would even take orders for you. With very little up front expense and overhead you could sell a lot before they start shipping them over from China.

as others have said it takes alot go get one and the chinesse via walmart will copy and steal it. I know one outfit that patented a plastic wheel for a garbage can. They have a lawyer go around looking for and suing anyone that has anything close to it. They let the lawyer keep all the money if he wins. THe company benefits by keeping others out of the market.

There are companies like Lisle that makes odd hand tools that does buy tool ideas. not sure how much or how you protect yourself but i think they are on the up-and-up. probably won't get rich and you'll probably have to sign over the rights to it but you might not be out anything. but buyer beware of course.

good luck. i've had alot of ideas over the years and have a couple patents via a past employer. never perused any on my own.

also if anyone has made something on a large scale in the past it would be considered prior art and wouldn't be patentable anyway so homework is definitely in order before spending a dime.

So here's a question: How do you do a "search" and expect to get any sort of reliable results?

I mean, I may describe my invention as a "thingamabobber" and someone else who already has the patent for it describes it as a "bobamathinger." My search will not find their patent.

I'm not talking about specific brand names, just basic terms to describe a particular device. If you don't search for the exact terms the other guy used, you won't get a reliable result. Either you will end up with nothing, or you will get thousands of irrelevant hits which will take you months/years to review..