Dealing with grass clumps?

BobReeves · Mar 2, 2017

Photos are of what is going to be a sunflower garden plot that will be planted around the first of April when the rain comes. It's about an acre that was plowed several weeks ago then tilled with a 3 point tiller last week. I went over it with a landscape rake after it was tilled to try and get the grass clumps out but as you can see I didn't have much success. They just piled up and eventually the rake just went over the top and left the clumps. They still contain quite a bit of dirt mixed in with the roots and was hoping the rake would just get the grass.

What is the best way to deal with this mess?

Paul Shuler · Mar 2, 2017

Bob I am a long ways from a real farmer but I would think a disc would do a good job on that if you have access to one.

BobReeves · Mar 2, 2017

Thanks Paul, neighbor has a disk I can borrow if it comes to that. Issue is like everything else my neighbor owns I will probably have to rebuild it before I can use it.

Adirondack case guy · Mar 2, 2017

I would hook back on the tiller again, speed up the rotor, and make a shallow pass with the shield up. that will knock the dirt off the clumps and then the wind and sun should kill the bare root grass.
Loren

ss55 · Mar 2, 2017

Grass spreads by seeds and rhizomes (roots). Your plow buried the grass sod to a depth that will kill it, but your rototiller may have been run deep enough to pull some of the grass roots back up, broken them up into small pieces and mixed them throughout the seedbed where some will grow all summer long.

If your garden will be only sunflowers you can look for a long term grass herbicide for sunflowers (maybe Treflan?). Herbicide carryover could limit what you can plant the following year.

If this years garden will have some mixed vegetables, I would plow up another garden spot and leave the rototiller in the shed for the first year to get the grass is under control. As suggested, a disk will work well to break up plowed ground.

farmerwithmutt · Mar 2, 2017

I would disc it but do it on a hot drying day one that would be good for making hay.
Do it when its damp will only spread it and replant it doing it on a dry day will kill it and break it up.

fixerupper · Mar 2, 2017

Like what Adirondack said or use a drag harrow with the teeth fairly flat. Might need to repeat after several days to turn the clumps over again. You have to get the clumps dry so you can get the dirt shook out of the roots.

BarnyardEngineering · Mar 2, 2017

I don't think a disc is going to have the effect you're expecting. It might chop up some of the clumps a little but most of the clumps will squeeze between the discs and flop back out on the ground, untouched.

Your best bet is to let them bake in the sun and decompose. By the time it comes around to planting most of the mass will be gone.

RobCons · Mar 2, 2017

Time should get most of them. Try the landscape rake again at an aggressive angle, with the top link extended about as far as it will go. If the sunflowers will be planted close together the shade from their leaves will also take care of most weeds.

jacksun65 · Mar 2, 2017

should not have tilled it. just disced it multiple times would have left the grass on bottom and cut up the roots.

James Howell · Mar 2, 2017

"<font color="#6699ff">[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]What is the best way to deal with this mess?[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]</font>"

This is one method of <a href="https://youtu.be/h0XE0WEDZ1Q?list=PLCUEeGboEbi-pR6w2onO-9zclH9sBoDVu">preparing a seed bed</a>.

Take a look at the photos below of the same small field last July.

Hope this helps.

DGinVT · Mar 2, 2017

Know how you feel, I had to this years ago with an old Allis Chalmers cigarette baler. Nothing ever work when you got if from him. he got FREE maintenance until you wanted it again.

Traditional Farmer · Mar 2, 2017

Make sure they're killed and they decay with some rain on them,a some chicken litter will speed up the process and make your sunflowers grow good.

BobReeves · Mar 2, 2017

Looks like two suggestions fit the equipment I have. More tilling and/or going over it again with the landscape rake. In both cases looks like I should wait a while and see what mother nature does to help.

This farming stuff is hard, not use to waiting and doing nothing. Always been a geterdone guy and this is new territory.

Traditional Farmer · Mar 2, 2017

When I open up a new plot with sod on it I usually just broadcast cover crops the first year to get the soil really workable.

Dave H (MI) · Mar 2, 2017

What are you using for a planter? Makes a difference.

BushogPapa · Mar 2, 2017

As you can already see, mistakes have been made...

1st, the Plow should have had (or may have had ?) Jointers or Cover-Boards, to cover the turned-down sod..
2nd, you should never use anything that will "Work-Up" the sod.
For that, we have always used a tool called a Soil Surgeon...it is a steel Drag with a nice set of 4" deep pivoting knives under it and plenty room on top to add weight ( or put rocks you find)..
As it is pulled, the knives "Work" the grass down...NOT up..leaving a decent seed bed..
Using a Disc will then work IF you DO NOT allow it to work very deep..ONLY prepare a Seed Bed..not a bit deeper on this 1st year after Breaking Sod..

I am afraid that since you have used a "Roto-Tiller" type machine you have already pulled far too much UP .. I would disc the field when DRY and NOT very Deeply and hope I would re-bury enough of the sod to make a seed bed..
At this point, I would agree that Discing several times when the ground is Dry will eliminate most of the living grass..

JMOR · Mar 2, 2017

Too late now, but for next year, do the plowing in fall and let it mellow over winter, in prep for spring seed bed work.

JD Seller · Mar 2, 2017

Well you tilled it too deep and brought the grass clumps back up. The issue is what type of planter do you have??? If it has a shoe type opener your going to have troubles in that the grass clumps will drag in front of the shoe. IF your using a newer type planter that has double disk opener then let a rain firm up the soil and plant.

Truthfully a tiller makes the ground to loose/mellow for a planter to work very well. Four to six inches of "fluff" is not a good seed bed. The depth control will sink in the loose ground. So your seed will be planted too deep. Also ground that is worked real fine will make a hard crust if you get heavy rains and then dry weather after. The seed will not be able to break through the crust.

So if you work the ground again only go a few inches deep. Any deeper and you will just bring up more clumps. Your landscape rake will drag them off if you have some where to go with the clumps.

Billy NY · Mar 2, 2017

I've dealt with the same thing when the moldboard plow was not set correctly and or the results left sod on the surface after a pass with the disc. With the 3 pt disc on, I just rolled the bucket forward in the dump position and carefully scraped off the top into a pile that I later worked back into the plot.

I would never recommend using a bucket in that position given there is risk, but it came natural for me having been a dozer operator to use a cutting edge in that manner. Plus my old tractor/loader had so much wear, it would give if you hit something. It worked well, and when the time came, I used the pile to fill in a low spot, so I basically moved some soil indirectly to where it was needed.

Those clods of sod have a lot of soil in them and you don't want to lose that. I think the 3 pt tiller set like Loren said, would be effective as well, I've been able to do that with one of these on a pumpkin patch that was moldboard plowed with too much soil moisture.

Had another patch with the same problem, I moldboard plowed it again after the pass with the disc and that turned it all back under.

More passes may also compact the soil, or create the hardpan layer, which is always something to consider.

BobReeves · Mar 2, 2017

Thanks Gang, I'm learning...The planter I am going to use is a John Deere 247 with gauge shoes. My plan was to plow it last fall but ended up spending 9 days in the hospital with pneumonia right when I should have been doing the plowing.

Part of the problem was created when I did get to the plowing. Took a bit for me to get it working like the Youtube videos show and some of the grass was never turned all the way under. I had the tiller set at it's highest setting but it still dug up the sod in several places.

I'll be happy this year if I can get a few sunflowers to grow. Am planning on cultivating between the rows to control some of the grass and weeds until the sunflowers get too tall then hope they will shade out most of what's left.

Good lessons for someone that might make the same mistakes. You can read all the forums and see all kinds of videos but until you actually do it you really don't get it.

Eldon (WA) · Mar 2, 2017

(quoted from post at 12:16:17 03/02/17) should not have tilled it. just disced it multiple times would have left the grass on bottom and cut up the roots.

That is my way of doing it....also leaves a lot of the weed seed down where it can't germinate.

Dick · Mar 2, 2017

I have to agree with JMOR. I have always plowed a sod field in the fall, let it sit all winter allowing the freeze to kill the roots and rot the sod which was turned down in the fall plowing. Then in the spring after it has dried out disc it until you have a good seed bed. I always had a good seed bed in the spring to plant or seed whatever I wanted. As someone else suggested, seeding a cover crop this year and plow down the green manure and summer fallow it thru the summer help to build up your soil for next years planting. If you work the ground thru the summer will also keep the weeds under control.
In my opinion, the mistake you made was tilling the ground after plowing which brought up the sod again instead of allowing it to rot buried underground. I'm not saying it was totally wrong but just made more problems and more work. Lots of good suggestions here, take your pick..
Dick

Dealing with grass clumps?

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