Can Anyone Identify This Transmission? Also, Project Updates

Hi All,

So tonight I'm seeking advice on finding a replacement transmission for my dump truck (Picture of current transmission at the link in this post - 1984 Ford F700, 4 speed manual, 370 gas engine). It sounds like a (broken) bulldozer in first and reverse gears, and recently as I've started getting it road worthy, I've discovered that it grinds often going into gear... Its hard to describe, its like I go to shift and the next gear "isnt there", but what "is there" is a loud grinding noise where there should be the feel of the transmission going into gear. For example, just today, I go to start driving in second and try to shift into third:

>Move shift lever
>GRRRRRRRRRRR
>Abort, move lever back to neutral (clutch still in)
>Move shift lever
>GRRRRRRRRRRR
>abort, move lever back to neutral (clutch hasnt been let out yet)
>Move shift lever
> (Feel Gears Mesh)
>Life is good!

I make the same motion every time. Ive driven old tractors where its hard to feel the transmission guiding the shift lever to where its supposed to be for the gears to engage, but its not like that. I can clearly feel the lever moving where its supposed to be, except theres often a loud grinding once I get there. It's never *not* gone into gear, but sometimes it takes 2-3 tries before theres a gear there for a change, instead of the sound of grinding.

Any ideas? I'm planning to replace the transmission regardless, but I'm still curious what could cause this problem, as I've never seen anything like it before (although thats not saying much haha). Does anyone recognize any of the markings on this transmission? I bought the truck cheap (~$2k), spent a little getting it fixed up (~$1800 in parts) and its running really well now. Since I'm using it for my business, I'd like to just buy a properly rebuilt transmission and be done with it, but I dont know where to look. I found a couple of used/salvage ones, but they're very expensive and from trucks which often have more miles than mine and likely wouldn't be that much of an improvement...
Picture Here

Also, a big thank you to everyone whose been helping me through these last few threads. I *think* the rear end is okay, after its adventures this morning. I've spent much of the evening watching YouTube videos of people working these things...

Your problem is most likely worn out synchronizers. Try double clutching it like it was a big truck. That might help. Once you synchronize the speed of the engine to the road speed for the gear you are trying to go into, it will slide right in.

Are you sure you have a synchronized trany? If it's not syncronized you would either need to double clutch or no clutch shift. An unsyncronized trany would grind if you shift like a synchronized trany.

First of all,what was the problem with the tail lights-did you get them working?
My fast guess is that your tranny is an Eaton/Fuller,but there should be a tag riveted to the side of it with model and serial #s on it.These are pretty easy to rebuild actually,but cost wise it depends on what is wrong as to whether it is feasible to rebuild or replace.It does sound from your description like it may need gears.I would bet it is synchronized(maybe not first),but even if the synchros are bad you may need the gears too because the engagement teeth on the gears can be badly worn too,and these are often overlooked .They keep it in gear as well as the shift rail detents.If it has been grinding a lot,they will be worn.You would need to pull it out,drain it,and pull the top cover to assess the damages.If you buy parts,you need to go an aftermarket truck parts house that does/sells gear work.Mark

What is the shift pattern and are you shifting to the correct gear sequence. We had an old chevy that first was on one side of the pattern then second was on the opposite side Then you could shift in the normal way.
Is there oil in the trans mission box? Will drastically affect shifting not to mention the rest of it. There are several options for trans missions for that truck. New process, Eaton,borg warner,and some others.

The "gear" symbol identifies it as a New Process transmission, the number is the casting # of the main case, can't make it out for sure, GOOGLING it mite lead to the tranny model number. There will be a tag riveted on one side or the other with the model #, unless it's a rebuilt and lost the tag along the way.

Last winter I repaired the New Process 4 speed in my 1979 IH dump truck. It's an off road farm truck, and as such, is usually in first or second gear. You couldn't hold it in first under load, and the synchronizer going into second didn't work well. I'm sorry I've already forgotten what my truck guy told me, but he was either unsure about parts availability, or maybe parts so expensive so as to make putting in a different trans the way to go. I didn't want to rework the truck to fit in a different trans, and my guy found me a rebuilt trans locally. Another business had this old NP 4 speed rebuilt, on a shelf, for a Ford, they no longer had. I was able to use parts out of it to repair mine. With a new first gear, it stays in now. But still resists going into second.

After all this I remembered driving a brand new 1973 Ford Louisville with the same trans. Same great long throw going into first or reverse, and very short throw in other gears. This truck would pop out of 4th if you hit something hard enough to bounce the empty rear, like crossing railroad tracks.

Then I recalled my old Dodge dump with the NP 5 speed. First all alone on one side, and reverse all alone way on the other side. I never cared much for trying to get around from first to second, while pulling hard off road.

I have decided I don't care much for the New Process transmissions. The old Clark 5 speed in a F600 I had was a great trans. Typical pattern, similar throw in all gears, shifted easy, always stayed in gear, good speed ranges, etc.

Non synchronized heavy truck trans are a different animal. I never had any luck trying to pretend a bad synchronizer could be shifted like a heavy truck trans, with minimal clutch usage. Maybe that's just me. I seem to be able to drive a Road Ranger with minimal clutch usage, but not a synchronized trans.

I have the tranny out of a 1981 F700. 5 speed. I junked out the truck due to bad motor. $200. I'm in North MS. Email should be open.

Sounds like the clutch is not disengaging, the transmission shaft is still turning,

Do you have any older friends who have driven trucks of this size and age? Let them drive it,and shift it,and the two speed also,,they might be able to tell you right away whats up. Just my 02 cents,Quite possibly someone right here on this great site knows these trucks inside and out and may live close by. Just suggesting this before you change transmissions etc.

I have no connection with this outfit.
http://www.midwesttrans.com/NP435_Manual_Transmission.html
I have a NP435 in a F250 and it has never been great to shift since new. It is consistent tho.Mine is slow to shift to next gear but never any grinding. Patience is the key.
Seems everybody used this trans at one time and they all called for different trans lube as I recall.
You can switch some internal parts around between mfg but clutch main shaft has many different configurations
depending on what engine trans was bolted to. Good luck!

Double clutch it. Takes a little practice but you will catch on.

As mentioned try double clutching. Spent some time driving a similar age F700 this summer helping a friend and its synchro's were gone too. Very vague/worn linkage on the transmission too, like 6" play in the knob while in gear. Hard to find em under pressure.

Hey Lance, do a video of these problems and show us all whats going on. I blame the glasspacks!

Casting numbers don't tell much.
Look on both sides of the trans for a metal tag riveted to the trans, it will have numbers stamped into it giving the model number and serial number, if it's the original it could also have Fords id numbers.
Although it's possible I haven't see a 4 spd trans in a F-700, Ford used 4 spd's in F600's for many years but F700-800's normally had 5 spd's.
Early model shift pattern's where R-1-2-3-4-5 for 5 spd Trans
Later model shift pattern's where R-L-1-2-3-4 for the same 5 spd trans.

How's your clutch adjustment, a draggy clutch will cause shifting problems, you shouldn't have more than 2" of free travel at the pedal, 1" to 1 1/2" is better.

Had a chevy 60 do exactly what your describing-it was low on gear oil in transmission. A high weight / thickness gear oil will make it harder to shift also

Hello Lance,

I would make sure your clutch is releasing properly first. Second it would be a good time to drain and install fresh gear lube. If it is a four speed with a low gear, then its a five speed with no synchronizers. Which means double clutching. I.D. the tranny. In that year-era there were 9 transmissions with five variations. Then more variations with a two speed rear. Lost of combos, so you need to know what transmission you have, so you get the right guesses,

Guido.

Not many of the four or five spd MD trucks transmissions where synchronized in low gear (bull dog) but where synchronized in all of the upper gears.

Anyone ever try to describe "Double-Clutching..???

That is what it is called, but not at all what it sounds like..

Y do not really shove the Clutch down twice...you merely apply enough pressure on the clutch pedal to release the clutch enough to allow it to slip, let the RPM drop several hundred RPM (assuming shifting UP) place the shift lever lightly where it should go and it will nearly FALL into gear...

same for "Down-Shifting"..except you must INCREASE the engine RPM before slipping into gear..

Some would call it "Slipping the Gears"... Professionals shift this way as a normal every-day procedure.. and NO, the 1st gear in a Large Truck Trans is NOT Synchronized either.. (if it is the Deep Low-side Gear).

What you are doing is "Being the Synchronizer"...shifting as we did BEFORE Synchros were used in transmissions..

That was my favorite setup for school buses. 370 two barrel, New Process four speed, Spicer two speed rear. They shift smooth as silk if they have been cared for. When they have 100k miles on them they shift the best as they just fall into gear. Getting a new bus always meant having a shoulder that killed me for quite a while.

Yours has been abused. It shouldn't need shifting any different than a pickup. I've put thousands of miles on them and only had to grind granny (or reverse) gear every so often.

I drove big trucks for 20 years. After about the first 6 months, I never touched the clutch again except to start up from a stop.

I drove for thirty years then sold my last semi and retired back to the farm.
Passed through Allentown a lot back in the 80's and 90's

Bingo..!!
I drove Coast-to-Coast with a co-driver and he could Sleep like a Baby and we still ran 4,300 miles in 3 1/2 days...!!
Cinci to San Bernadino in 36 1/2 and return in 35 1/2...
Every Week..
Then add a trip to Painseville, Ohio and maybe a trip to Cranberry NY..

Never really appreciated the "Piers" in NJ, but got there plenty of times too..

Nothing like a "Driver's Transmission"...13 Over...Over..!!!