(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

Jobs lost to automation discussion

J

JOCCO

Well-known Member
Wanted to run a post here on jobs lost to automation. Some of us were discussing this locally and despite the thoughts of imported goods or migrant labor. Some feel automated stuff has really hurt and I have seen many examples Electric meters (used to be a person go around and read them) now its a radio type signal. Packing and shipping stuff, done with machines now. (robot puts box on pallet another moves pallet out of the bay) Other things are done by computer. Before a man would do it. My point was you could at least get a job. Many companies went this route not just to save money on labor but cited insurance and tax costs.
 
My wife works for a small bank, three branches in three small towns.
She is at the smallest branch and their worried that it might close
because so many customers now bank online.
I guess that would be automation.
 
(quoted from post at 14:48:28 02/28/17) Wanted to run a post here on jobs lost to automation. Some of us were discussing this locally and despite the thoughts of imported goods or migrant labor. Some feel automated stuff has really hurt and I have seen many examples Electric meters (used to be a person go around and read them) now its a radio type signal. Packing and shipping stuff, done with machines now. (robot puts box on pallet another moves pallet out of the bay) Other things are done by computer. Before a man would do it. My point was you could at least get a job. Many companies went this route not just to save money on labor but cited insurance and tax costs.
Click to expand...
Back in the day the Luddites who lost jobs to newly introduced automatic looms went and destroyed some of them to try and preserve their jobs. In the progress won.
 
Robotic welders in manufacturing. Things come down the line,they're welded automatically and sent to the next step in the process.
 
Absolutely! You go into an older bank that might have 8 teller windows, maybe 2 of them are in use. When we deposit a check my wife takes a picture of it and emails it to the bank, and it's done!
 
Some small banks are doing this 1 manager for 3 branches to save money. Same for other positions too
 
It might be more than saving money on labor. I closed a business because I went six months where I couldn't even get someone to sweep the floor. Too many people are not willing to work for a living.
 
Yes, I have been trying to do some banking this week and it seems banks have even stopped answering the phone.
It is kinda tough on us old geezers that like to talk to a real person.
 
(quoted from post at 15:01:26 02/28/17) Robotic welders in manufacturing. Things come down the line,they're welded automatically and sent to the next step in the process.
Click to expand...

Last plant I worked at we went from 105 guys on a cylinder block line to 16, over about 10 years. Castings came in, unloaded from a truck by a robot, transferred from machine to machine with a robot, loaded back onto a truck by robot. No forklifts, never touched by humans.

You can't stop it.
 
jocco,
60 years ago my dad had one of the first JD square balers. He did a lot of costume work. He had to hire migrant workers to bale hay and straw, because no one wanted to work that hard.

Farmer next to us raised mint. He couldn't hire enough high schools kids in the summer to hand weed the mint. He relied on migrant help.

Just got back form a trip to Key West. Around Homestead, Florida I didn't see any Caucasians working in the fields, only migrant help.

We may starve if all the migrants were shipped back to the country they came from.
 
Older son is in Mechanical Engineering, 3rd year, younger son is high school, both are straight - A students. Tonight is the Robotics meeting, for the high school robotics team. The 'bot for this year's competition is finished, competition starts in OKC March 23 24 25. They cannot just sit back and complain, they have to get out and get ahead of technology.
 
The real problem is that America still has 20% of the youth that drop out of high school. No math skills, very little writing or reading ability.....what are they going to do to make a living? They are only qualified to do manual labor. Unfortunately, they refuse to do the stuff that the illegals are willing to do...real hard, dirty jobs, with little or no benefits in bad weather.
 
As was brought up about welding. With robotic welding EVERY weld is purfect! No sloppy work, hang overs,bad attitude, etc. When the company owner can automate, who can blame them.
 
Heard today Wendy's is going to start using some automation rather than projected $15 hr. help. Once that gets rolling those jobs may be history. If milking cows can be automated what can't be? Driverless trucks? Where WILL jobs come from?
 
President trying to get rid of the wrong ones--at least the migrants will work. Can't say any more without being kicked off or being accused of being racist.
 
My question is this: what will we do to earn a living, when there are no more or radically fewer jobs??. Much as I hate to say it, we may be forced to become a more socialistic society. I can imagine it coming to a world in a few decades where the government owns everything. everybody works a couple hours a week. and all food, shelter, clothing and healthcare is provided. If you want something extra, you would have to barter with someone for it.
 
My wife works for Volvo trucks. The cabs are welded by robots, all the painting is done with robots. They were told a couple of weeks ago that the company had purchased 50 more robots. Everything on the line is computer controlled or computer programmed. She does not know at this time what the new robots will be doing.Time will tell.
 
I go to an animal feed manufacturing place once in a while to pick up feed that is in plastic 50# bags. About 3 or 4 years ago, they had a bagging line that had 2 men that stood at the end of the line and stacked the bags on pallets. Then another man came around and got the pallets out of the way with a forklift. One day I went there and there was a machine doing the stacking. Still had the one man on the forklift. I asked the man about the 2 guys that used to stack the feed, and he told me that they still worked there, and they had to hire 2 more. I asked why and he said, it was because they could not mix the feed fast enough to keep the line going with the automated stacker......
 
It happens a lot. I bought a fancy trailer that looks like a silage wagon. All it does is unload mulch into your wheelbarrow automatically. It cost me A LOT, but there aren't many left who will shovel mulch all day for 2 months straight. Saves on sore backs, etc. too. Plus it comes to work sober every day!
 
Someone needs to design and build the satellites and the robots and the computers to do the automated work. So there are just as many jobs. They are just different jobs. Years ago my wife's Grandfather Was telling how when he was a young man and they were laying the water lines in town they hired a bunch of guys with shovels to dig them in. Now days 1 man digs it in with a backhoe thereby eliminating a bunch of jobs. I said yes but there were a bunch of jobs created building backhoes. He didn't know what to say. When Pres. says he wants to create more jobs I say--Are you kidding me? We can't fill the jobs we already have---
 
Unfortunately, at lot of people have no idea how to work anymore. I did a stint as a mechanic at a Deere dealership. Lucky me got to help train the kids going through votech school. Some were good, some ok, and a couple couldn't figure out which end of a push broom you ran it from. But they did know all the scores from the games last night. One of them I suggested he think about a life in car sales, just before I started making his life so miserable he quit. He could talk it up real good, but to try to get him to do something... forget it. There is a segment of the population that is not cut out for high tech fast paced jobs. We need to have a place for them to earn a living too. Otherwise, those of us than can make it go will have to carry them.
 
The Internet has killed millions of man-hours of labor. It will continue to do so for decades.

I fix the internet. It's a very good job.
 
...and then there were bale throwers , large round balers , bunk silo,s , manure loaders / liquid manure lagoons and handling , chemicals instead of cultivation , how bout those automatic milking machines? etc , etc. One farmer does as much now as 20 or more did in '50,s and '60,s. Happens everywhere , someone has to design and build those machines of automation and computers/software. It's just shifted from labor to tech jobs. Remember everyone says "work smart ...not hard " ? If we had to walk to the Moon we would have never made it. The corporate environment has favored overseas production for so many years, we have just been killing ourselves and waiting for the "vultures" to swoop in and take us over.
 
Around here, factories run as much as a 25% labor turnover per year. One county recently spent a week getting a job fair together for some companies, put it on all weekend and had one live applicant. Get rid of Hispanic labor and we will possibly all starve. But another twist to this story, back when men dug ditches by hand, everyone had several children. Now white America averages less than 2. With an aging population and not enough young workers to cover, Hispanic immigrants may be more valuable in the future.
 
What sort of wrenches do you use to fix the
Internet? Mostly metric, or is there some
standard wrenches required in there?
 
Yes , someone designed the stacker, and someones else built a bunch of stackers. And then the builders and designers were out of work, and the stackers lasted for many years with a lot less expense. Who loses then? joe
 
Just a couple comments/perspectives here:

1: Not all of the migrant labor is illegal. Send the illegal ones back, and allow the ones that are actually willing to get a work visa back here again.

2: I realize with a low paying job it is hard to make ends meet. If there was no stopping welfare payments, I would rather it go to people that are working, at least they are out there trying. Take it away completely from the "won't works", so they have to get a job.

3: A close friend's dad retired from GM a few years back told me a story of a robot malfunction. Said there was a part of the factory the robots just ran by themselves for the most part. He then told me that something went awry with one of the robot's programming or operating parameters, and it crashed up a bunch of stuff including itself, the parts it was making or welding, and some stuff around it. He stated that it was a very expensive occurrence.

Ross
 
(quoted from post at 17:54:10 02/28/17) What sort of wrenches do you use to fix the
Internet? Mostly metric, or is there some
standard wrenches required in there?
Click to expand...

Depends on if I have to adjust the Framus rod, or the turbo-encabulator. Some of them are imported. :D
 
This post is leading a bit off topic, but no better place than this thread for what I'm about to say. Moderator(s), please remove if too disruptive to yt.com:

It has long been my fear that technology will be our eventual demise. Unlimited power is right around the corner, artificial intelligence is well into its infancy, and mankind is still as dangerous and destructive as ever before - in some ways even more so. How long do you think we will be allowed to continue as we please?

When you combine unlimited power with robotics, you will have a devastating force to be reckoned with! Combine that with the new-found intelligence that is coming to be - no, it will not always be called "Artificial" Intelligence! It will simply be the ultimate of intelligence - all computers/electronic devices around the world all connected together, all knowing and ALL powerful!

It is sometimes difficult to believe in a god that you cannot see or experience firsthand, which is why God is being thrown under the bus!! Once all the above parts are in place, technology will become, for all intent purposes, our new god. ...So can we prevent this from happening? Honestly? Much of engineering taught nowdays consists of teaching people how to program a computer to do the engineering "for" us, and it's only getting worse!!

Think we can write in some special code or make special conditions? Even the inescapable prison Alcatraz had 3 people escape. It was used for less than 30 years, and criminals were able to figure out how to get around the barriers. Do you think a world-wide super computer that knows all and sees all couldn't figure a way out?

We require leadership to get major things done. Nations require government, business requires CEO's and other white collar jobs, even the individual home has leaders - though it often varies between wife and husband. Therefore, major decisions require time - time that the all-knowing computer would have answers for in milliseconds, and have that answer transmitted all over the world just as quickly.

There is no escaping what is to come. We are already FAR too dependent on technology! It hasn't been a matter of "if" for a very, very long time - decades even!

So what can we do? Well, this is where we need to dig deep down and find our faith, because when the time comes, ONLY God will be able to save us! By that time even we piddly little humans won't even be able to do much.

For those of you who think I'm way off the deep end here, think about this - just stop and consider all of the resources we use (and waste!) every day. Food, fuel, air, water, land, TIME, ...and even resources such as metals and rock/concrete, not to mention all of the synthetic materials we have so far developed and what has yet to be developed - materials that do not function in a natural way. The new age is coming. I fear I will still be alive to see it, but I pray I will not!!

Even with all of this, someone is bound and determined to bring up (again) that "someone" has to dream up/design/engineer/build these new things. If you re-read this post more closely, you'll see where this is coming to change. It's not going to happen overnight, or even by next year, but it WILL happen - technology will some day be designing and building based on ITS needs; not ours. One day there will be no human intervention in many if not all processes.

...Did you know that some of the newer metal detectors communicate with your smart phone? My wife has a sewing machine that can work 100% by computer, other than threading the machine and picking out the fabric. How difficult would that be in a high-tech future? Cars are expected to be driving themselves in the foreseeable future; some already park themselves better than the drivers who own them! Even kitchen appliances all communicate with and interact with centralized home automation systems. ...Do you think these systems can't or don't communicate with other systems outside the home?? Again, it IS coming! If things don't go well, it may end up being that technology will one day choose that mankind does not deserve all the perks and priority that we currently have. Until we hit that tipping point, there will be people who stay short-sighted and won't (or can't) see the larger picture down the road.
 
Funny this is on a tractor site, albeit an old tractor site. The tractors we love on this site were the automation that took our country from a large percentage, if not most of the work force working in ag down to less than 2% of the work force in ag. I have mentioned animal power here in the past and many laugh at it and rightly so. when we had animal power, we employed many more people in ag. Thankfully, that has changed. I do not think anyone wants to go back to that on a serious scale. Yes, the advancement can be scary, but ultimately in benefits us all. Read Matt Ridley's, "The Rational Optimist." Things get better all the time, especially our standards of living and we have technology to thank for much of that.
 
(quoted from post at 00:24:18 03/01/17) President trying to get rid of the wrong ones--at least the migrants will work. Can't say any more without being kicked off or being accused of being racist.
Click to expand...

Just remember, Mexican is not a race.
 
I worked at a factory for 22 years. Many jobs went to automation, and frankly my fear is the wealthy architects of American economic policy will abandon the working class entirely as opportunities arise. I understand all the complaints about freeloaders, but what if most of us are relegated to a life where no viable economic opportunities exist?
 
(quoted from post at 18:29:31 02/28/17)
(quoted from post at 15:01:26 02/28/17) Robotic welders in manufacturing. Things come down the line,they're welded automatically and sent to the next step in the process.
Click to expand...

Last plant I worked at we went from 105 guys on a cylinder block line to 16, over about 10 years. Castings came in, unloaded from a truck by a robot, transferred from machine to machine with a robot, loaded back onto a truck by robot. No forklifts, never touched by humans.

You can't stop it.
Click to expand...
Yup, I installed a seat delivery conveyor line in a Chrysler plant some 25 yrs ago where the seats were built by a supplier according to what was scheduled for the assembly line in another plant, went off the supplier line by conveyor onto a semi-trailer and delivered to the plant a few miles away, rear door opened, seats conveyed out of the truck directly onto the assembly line, sequenced to the line and the only human hands that touched them after the inspector at the supplier was the guy who used a robot assist arm to put them in the vehicle. Never saw a mismatch either.

However, it did take quite a few more skilled trades to keep all that automation running. It also employed guys like me to develop the automation.
 
Exactly correct I have and will continue to have much the same opinion. I'm an HVAC mechanic,had a young man 23-24 yr old a couple years ago summed it up best he said my generation just don't have it. Lol he did have "it" kid was one of the smartest guys we ever hired as a first year apprentice. Had a college degree in insurance risk management he quit about 6 months ago works for progressive insurance company.
 
Yeabut the end result is there's a huge number of jobs lost, for instance a factory that once hired 4,000 now produces as much or more with a tenth of the workers. Once a robot is built it works for a long time, and once one is built the design is good for many more.
 
It looks like fast food workers are next.

Minimum wage laws have provided incentive to automate.

Stay tuned.

Dean
 
(quoted from post at 18:20:04 02/28/17) This post is leading a bit off topic, but no better place than this thread for what I'm about to say. Moderator(s), please remove if too disruptive to yt.com:

It has long been my fear that technology will be our eventual demise. Unlimited power is right around the corner, artificial intelligence is well into its infancy, and mankind is still as dangerous and destructive as ever before - in some ways even more so. How long do you think we will be allowed to continue as we please?

When you combine unlimited power with robotics, you will have a devastating force to be reckoned with! Combine that with the new-found intelligence that is coming to be - no, it will not always be called "Artificial" Intelligence! It will simply be the ultimate of intelligence - all computers/electronic devices around the world all connected together, all knowing and ALL powerful!

It is sometimes difficult to believe in a god that you cannot see or experience firsthand, which is why God is being thrown under the bus!! Once all the above parts are in place, technology will become, for all intent purposes, our new god. ...So can we prevent this from happening? Honestly? Much of engineering taught nowdays consists of teaching people how to program a computer to do the engineering "for" us, and it's only getting worse!!

Think we can write in some special code or make special conditions? Even the inescapable prison Alcatraz had 3 people escape. It was used for less than 30 years, and criminals were able to figure out how to get around the barriers. Do you think a world-wide super computer that knows all and sees all couldn't figure a way out?

We require leadership to get major things done. Nations require government, business requires CEO's and other white collar jobs, even the individual home has leaders - though it often varies between wife and husband. Therefore, major decisions require time - time that the all-knowing computer would have answers for in milliseconds, and have that answer transmitted all over the world just as quickly.

There is no escaping what is to come. We are already FAR too dependent on technology! It hasn't been a matter of "if" for a very, very long time - decades even!

So what can we do? Well, this is where we need to dig deep down and find our faith, because when the time comes, ONLY God will be able to save us! By that time even we piddly little humans won't even be able to do much.

For those of you who think I'm way off the deep end here, think about this - just stop and consider all of the resources we use (and waste!) every day. Food, fuel, air, water, land, TIME, ...and even resources such as metals and rock/concrete, not to mention all of the synthetic materials we have so far developed and what has yet to be developed - materials that do not function in a natural way. The new age is coming. I fear I will still be alive to see it, but I pray I will not!!

Even with all of this, someone is bound and determined to bring up (again) that "someone" has to dream up/design/engineer/build these new things. If you re-read this post more closely, you'll see where this is coming to change. It's not going to happen overnight, or even by next year, but it WILL happen - technology will some day be designing and building based on ITS needs; not ours. One day there will be no human intervention in many if not all processes.

...Did you know that some of the newer metal detectors communicate with your smart phone? My wife has a sewing machine that can work 100% by computer, other than threading the machine and picking out the fabric. How difficult would that be in a high-tech future? Cars are expected to be driving themselves in the foreseeable future; some already park themselves better than the drivers who own them! Even kitchen appliances all communicate with and interact with centralized home automation systems. ...Do you think these systems can't or don't communicate with other systems outside the home?? Again, it IS coming! If things don't go well, it may end up being that technology will one day choose that mankind does not deserve all the perks and priority that we currently have. Until we hit that tipping point, there will be people who stay short-sighted and won't (or can't) see the larger picture down the road.
Click to expand...

I hope they leave your post up, and this quote as well, but I will understand if it crosses the line. I'd like to maybe help out with a few assumptions made here, as I've been in the high tech field since the early 70s, and although I'm kinda old now, I might be able to put your mind at ease a little bit.

First - the technology side. Soon we will reach some physics limitations on mircotechnology. Right now the limitations on RAM type memory is called the 'via line width'. The limit of the size of the electron transfer across these vias will determine the minimal limits of memory storage. In humans, these are engrams, and they are very small. Technology won't get that far.

Next - the concern about IA is way, way, way overblown. Computing systems are masters at repetitive tasks. Performing sequential searches, or nested combinatorial analysis(fractal geometry) are perfect conditions for computers. But we are still a long way from human decision-making and an even longer way from reduction of human emotive valuation to a complex equation. There are many in my field who think that there is no possibility of 'sentience' with a digital system. We can approximate it, but we can't achieve so many human attributes.

Sarcasm, humor, empathy, apathy, anger, greed, envy, love, and hate are now and for the foreseeable future the province of man, and if there is a higher being(monotheist type), those as well. I'm one of those who consider that no matter the advances of technology, there will never come a time when a machine of any kind can provide succor and encouragement to the next generation(human or machine). While I"m on the subject, knowing why to procreate is something only for humans, and not machinery. They have no drive, or ambition to make yet another machine, like humans are prone to do.

Now the scary stuff. Embedded communication and emulation technology is outpacing all govts ability to manage or even monitor. Knowing when, how, and where to employ our technology in areas like defense, national economic policy, foreign relations, etc. Laws lag far behind the technical ability of sectors in the govt and more dangerous in private hands. Knowing so much about each person by constant public tracking, and storage of personal and private data on people is going to be a far bigger problem than it is right now. Consider, every word I write in this forum will potentially live forever. It could be recalled a 1000 years from now and it will never, ever be forgotten or modified. And, if my position changes or has changed in my lifetime, these words and opinions could always come back to bite me, as it has done so many public people recently.

On to monotheism. This is my weak point, and I will defer to others more qualified. All I can say is that it appears there has been a bit of a resurgence in belief of a monotheistic message around the world. I will also defer in commenting about whether that is a good thing, or has led to further human consternation. Others can weigh in on that better than I. As long as there is some value to be had in a belief system by humans, I think we will continue to have available without limitations(although some countries are bucking that trend, and will remain nameless)

Well, there ya are. Many generations have said similar things since the origin of conversation. We still advance, but we still hold beliefs. I don't see that changing for millennia. In fact, with the increase in labor done by machines, it seems likely that humans will be left to examine philosophical bounds to a greater extent. We'll see how that plays out in the 'twitter' generation.
 
Sadly enough you are correct, but I have been in the welding and repair business for 40 years and have made a lot of money fixing things that other people said couldn't be fixed. The younger generation is all about computers and punching buttons and doing things the easy way. No one that I know wants to learn my job or get dirty or do the physical work to lay under a D-9 Caterpillar for 16 hours in the pouring rain replacing a trunion bar. Let's see a robot do that trick. Automation is great for manufacturing, but will never replace skilled welders and mechanics, that have a lot of good old common sense,when it comes to fixing what's broke.
 
It's sad to see how the big picture is completely being missed. As mr. belgian said, there are many other jobs needed to make a robot and do automation. Steel needs made for the robot, bolts, wiring, the computer/brain/plc (whatever you want to call it). Someone must engineer it mechanically, electrically and integrate it into whatever system it's designed for. Someone must program it. All those engineers and programmers use computers which require people and resources to build them. A company must develop/design ancillary equipment such as limit switches, photo eyes etc. for the robot. That company will then need to hire someone to manufacture those parts. Guess what, that manufacturing facility will probably use robots to manufacture those parts. See how far this can grow, and that's one robot.
We haven't even discussed networking all the robots together. Bringing the information back to a central computer to be monitored. People need to make the computer servers, programmers need to develop the software to interpret this data.
I am a programmer, I have implemented multiple systems and you would not believe how many times I've had to add programming so an operator didn't have to press some buttons.
Yes robots last a while, but only about 10 years. During that time tweaks need made to programming, parts go bad and need changed, etc.
I agree, robots do take jobs, but you should look at the broader picture.
As far as banks go, I would have to go into work late or leave early in order to get to one before it closes.
 
Obviously anything that makes man behave better toward his fellow man and environment might be considered a good thing. However, a government that becomes controlled by devout religious belief with no factual basis and a great deal of variation within that belief system could very well be compared to the systems we see in much of the middle east. Government that cannot separate itself from philosophy is doomed to failure. I think our founding fathers understood that when they provided for separation of church and state. I am sure this comment will offend some of you, but consider the history of religion in government and I think you can see the point.
 
A lot of people worry about automation, but it is everywhere. On the farm from horses to tractors, to bigger tractors, to huge tractors. From loose hay to square balers to big round balers, on and on. Each step required fewer people to get the same job done.
 
Artificial intelligence trying to take over the world does make one pause for a second. If it comes after my side cutters that means WAR! But seriously, I like to think there will at least be a few people left
capable of enough rational thought to crash a computer that gets too big for its britches.
 
I agree with Elton. In America everyone is welcome to their own religious beliefs and the freedom to practice
same....up to the point where they decide to make laws to make me adhere to their beliefs. Unfortunately, a lot of
people do not seem to understand the difference. That is the method of the taliban...just a different religion.
 
A lot of companies that made horse-and-buggy accessories went out of business when automobiles came on the scene. Those that adapted survived. Those that didn't ....well, you know the rest.

I has always been this way, and it always will.
 
Old-9, you missed my point. The feed manufacture had to ADD 2 jobs per shift, not eliminate jobs, because of the stacker. Not all automation is to eliminate jobs, some is just to make work easier.
 
(quoted from post at 23:40:08 02/28/17) Obviously anything that makes man behave better toward his fellow man and environment might be considered a good thing. However, a government that becomes controlled by devout religious belief with no factual basis and a great deal of variation within that belief system could very well be compared to the systems we see in much of the middle east. Government that cannot separate itself from philosophy is doomed to failure. I think our founding fathers understood that when they provided for separation of church and state. I am sure this comment will offend some of you, but consider the history of religion in government and I think you can see the point.
Click to expand...

I'm not following you. Our gov't is not controlled by any religious dogma or policy. The closest thing I can think of that would qualify would be the global climate change issue which is a sort of quasi religion now or perhaps the environmentalist movement where "Gia" is to be worshiped even if it hurts people. But I would disagree that a gov't that cannot separate itself from philosophy is doomed to fail if the philosophy is that the individual has unalienable rights and power over centralized gov't. If we stuck to the Constitution and Bill of Rights as intended, we wouldn't have a lot of the problems we see now.
 


The problem is, IMO, that the true wealth of a nation has to come from the earth- crops, meat, fish, minerals, oil, lumber, coal, etc. Beyond that it's moving and processing those items that creates jobs that share in that wealth and allow people the ability to build homes, but things, etc. Everything else is just money changing. We are at a point where we're working against these facts, attempting to sustain an economy based not on obtaining and processing raw materials, but on providing services to those who are by products of a dwindling raw materials production and processing system. IOW, if the chief object of a nations economy is gold and that nation stops or limits mining for gold, the rest of the system is simply going to collapse. It's pretty simple to me.

Fixing the problem...that's the tricky part.
 
(quoted from post at 19:58:26 02/28/17) A lot of people worry about automation, but it is everywhere. On the farm from horses to tractors, to bigger tractors, to huge tractors. From loose hay to square balers to big round balers, on and on. Each step required fewer people to get the same job done.
Click to expand...

I think the problem is also the skills have changed. In 1860 there were lathe operators. In 1960, the same operator could have understood and run a modern lathe. The new technology is completely different. The old skills no longer work. And now, computer programs are doing the programming without programmers. Technology is moving much faster now, eliminating jobs that were safe a few years ago.
 
I think a USMC mantra sums it up nicely: Improvise, Adapt, Overcome. (Used by Clint Eastwood in the Granada invasion movie)

I was not a marine; 9 years USAF ('59-'68). In short, find what's selling and cross train. Besides, it probably pays more for a lighter physical work load and better hours.
 


Automation is nothing that we have the power do anything about (as in prevent it from happening). Each and everyone of us has so make choices, mine was continues Educational upgrades.
So many of us become comfortable in our life style, location we make home and take on an air of complacency that industry and Government must secure our source of income. As a human we have feelings for good citizens who do the best they can with the concept of hard work. Unfortunately, someone did not explain ( or individuals were not listening ) that hard work does not increase the odds of a full time career! There is an educational difference between a JOB and a long term Career.
If individuals would look at automation as both a challenge and chance to increase ones portfolio of knowledge, they would soon realise their knowledge will increase their value to the employer, as well arm the individuals portability. Continual education will secure both a well paying carrier as well as long term income.
I entered the main stream work force when I was 18 years young. I left the same firm I had been gainfully employed with for 40 + years when I was 58 +. You may ask "how the heck does anyone hang in for 40 years with Automation"?
The signs and symptoms of change are all around us. It?s up to each one of us to continue our life long required path of learning. Set goals that make you both reach and require one to be mentally active with an Institutional document of certification as proof of ones qualifications.
Each and everyone of us must be willing to attend night courses, willing to work overtime to take time off to attend Post Secondary Institutions, arrange to utilize Vacation to attend institutions of learning and be willing to locate were there are carrier oriented employment opportunities.
Education with documented certification has many rewards, such as a high level of financial income, portability, ensures that the individual is in demand by employers.

Bob.....
 
First of all, I want to thank you folks for not going nuts over that post I made. Most people can't see beyond next week and just can't consider the possibilities.

As to other feedback, mankind had very little technological growth for thousands of years. Yet as time has gone on, technology continues to move faster and faster.

In aerospace, let's look at the Wright Bros. back in 1903. WW! saw very slow aircraft - the first of which shot off their own propellers when the first guns were mounted. WWII saw significantly better a and faster aircraft. Then we moved into the jet age, which took us into space. Now they have drones with no pilots; most of which can be programmed to do certain tasks without further input. We also have full-scale unmanned aircraft, so no pilots get hurt. These aircraft have to know what's happening around them and make their best electronic "decisions" based on that data -- and we're just in the infancy of that now!

To say that technology is always going to need someone to dream up/engineer or to build the first one or to build the robots....that's absurd! As technology continues to advance, technology will be doing more and more of these tasks in the future. Eventually it will get to a point where there is no human interaction. At that point, we are simply "trusting" this faster, stronger and more adept technology.

I sort of agree that technology doesn't have any desire to "get ahead" right now - no consciousness - no ambition, but do you really think it's going to stay that way? In the aerospace example above, look how much more quickly things happened as technology advanced. Look now at, say, computers - a smart phone fits in your hand, yet can do MUCH more than the biggest, baddest computers from just a decade ago. ...A decade?? YES!! I was reading something that was showing how modern digital cameras only need to be the size of a microchip - lens and all. The ONLY reason they are as big as they are now is so we have something to hold onto.

Back when I started in the PC industry (beginning of Compaq Computers), there were 5 1/4" floppie drives that held very little data. 10 years ago, a 6 gig flash drive was impressive....and expensive. Now you can store in the terabytes on just a small chip. With 3D printers, many things are being made now that weren't even possible before. Soon, it will be possible for science to engineer (with the help of computers, of course) new viruses and such, then "print" them out. Already 3D printers are being used to print replacement bones for people. Don't even have to mention the 3D firearms - that's old news by now! Point is, as time goes on, technology is ever increasing in what it is capable of. Many computers are still working around the clock, while the human workers go home for the night. Right now, computers have to be programmed. ...Do you honestly believe this will always be?!?!?

Now to move into farming - there are more than a few folks out there who are actively working on making new technology happen - technology like walking up to a screen and telling the computer what you want for dinner, then the meal suddenly appears out of thin air. Yes, Star Trek. The cell phone came from that show, as did many other things. One day, could you imagine a world where "farming" is no longer even needed? When we can have technology that is so capable that it can create food out of thin air? Don't laugh! It will be here. Then all the farm land will be worth lots of money....to developers. One day people (the then-younger generations) will scoff at the idea of eating anything out of the ground. Yuck!! ...Some liquid from the inside of a cow? Puh-LEEZE!!

There are smart people out there trying to keep technology from having foothold on mankind, but eventually the shear size, power and scope of technology will far overtake anything we can even imagine today! One day, it won't be a matter of computers, or hydraulics, or power - one day it will simply be an all-integrated "technology" - one that can sense its surroundings and make its own choices. I hope it's true that we will have nothing to fear without this technology having drive or ambition. Still, so long as it's able to see the destructiveness of mankind, "IT" may decide there is a better way, and then make it happen.

Scary stuff indeed!!
 
Sure there needs to be people who design and monitor the technology, but those jobs are highly skilled, requiring a lot of smarts and a lot of education. There are an awful lot of people out there who do not have the smarts, or the interest to perform these jobs. On top of that, these "new" jobs do not even come close to employing the same numbers of people who were displaced by the automation that made these "new" jobs necessary in the first place.
 
The way so many think today, maybe total automation is the answer. "Just want needs met, be happy...... accomplishment/achievement are dirty words in the way of happiness". Maybe Bill Gates has the answer: "Bill Gates, one of the world's richest man with a net worth of $81 billion, thinks nations – including the United States – are not wealthy enough yet for a universal basic income system that would give everyone a set amount of money. Over time, countries will be rich enough to do this".
BUT, I think more likely the whole world will level out at something about like Afghanistan.
 
I am not sure how I got here, but my post was in reference to the fellow that talked about faith. My point is, if you let religion have a large control of policy, whose religion? One could easily say that the rise of Marxism was almost directly linked to religion working hand in hand with monarchy to control the Russian people. As long as philosophies pit us against each other we cannot have a unified nation. I am not against religious belief, but in this last cycle I kept hearing about putting god back into the white house. Frightening to me. What is disturbing is the fact that so many demagogues have learned how to use these belief systems to con so many voters.
 
Speaking of meter readers, the electric COOP installed remote reading meters several years ago. Today the local water supply corp installed my remote reading water meter all sealed up nice and tight with it's little 5" antenna....to get the signal out. It's easy to see doing it with a meter hanging on a wall but to do it with a sometimes submerged meter containing electronics and a transmission system had me curious.
 
(quoted from post at 19:46:42 03/01/17) Speaking of meter readers, the electric COOP installed remote reading meters several years ago. Today the local water supply corp installed my remote reading water meter all sealed up nice and tight with it's little 5" antenna....to get the signal out. It's easy to see doing it with a meter hanging on a wall but to do it with a sometimes submerged meter containing electronics and a transmission system had me curious.
Click to expand...
uess they must be sealed very well, as mine is underwater with any significant rainfall. So are the cable, telephone and electric power connections. However, about 4 years ago, steam started coming out of neighbors in ground electric power box. Oncor came, cleaned, re-sealed the connections and has been well since.
 
(quoted from post at 19:40:22 03/01/17) I am not sure how I got here, but my post was in reference to the fellow that talked about faith. My point is, if you let religion have a large control of policy, whose religion? One could easily say that the rise of Marxism was almost directly linked to religion working hand in hand with monarchy to control the Russian people. As long as philosophies pit us against each other we cannot have a unified nation. I am not against religious belief, but in this last cycle I kept hearing about putting god back into the white house. Frightening to me. What is disturbing is the fact that so many demagogues have learned how to use these belief systems to con so many voters.
Click to expand...

We're you "frightened" during the previous 8 years of an administration that actively supported I slam over Christi anity/Jud aism? We're you "frightened" when the Federal gov't decided to force people to act against their beliefs? I think you are cherry picking here friend. The current administration may pay some lip service to faith, but you will not see any real religious based policy anymore than you did with Bush2, Bush1, Reagan, Ford, etc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top