Input on seeding a new yard ???

I am going to be working on my lawn this spring in Central Pennsylvania and want to see if I can get some input on how to make this happen efficiently while spending less money and using less time. We moved into our newly constructed home May of last year. It was so wet I could not get the ½ acre yard cleaned up to make grass until the beginning of June, which I then planted grass (quick grow mix of probably mostly annual and a little perennial) and covered with straw. First I want to note that my well is 700’ deep with 1 ½ pints of water per minute. Yes you read that correctly. That's only 240 gallons per day. I would take two 275 gallon tanks to my parents house and fill with water out of the creek and then run sprinklers off of that. I did this a couple times a week for a month. Grass grew up great and I mowed maybe 4 times. Then summer hit with heat and no rain. Grass died. Now I’m left with a bare looking yard with a bunch of matted dead grass and a bit of straw. I know this was probably a waste but I seeded my yard the beginning of October with a good perennial and nothing happened. I waited a bit too long I believe.

So now I would like some input into what I will do this spring. There shouldn’t be too much erosion because there is quite a bit of dead grass and a bit of straw left. The soil shouldn’t be too terrible because I applied lime and fertilizer when I seeded last year. Should I rent one of those machines that stirs the top of the soil and replant? Should I wait and see what sprouts (maybe some of the perrenial I seeded in October)? Should I plug aerate, apply fertilizer and reseed? Should I wait and completely redo the beginning of September which is supposed to be the ideal time of year to plant in PA? The local landscaping places want over $2,000 to plant my yard and I’m not paying that. Also keep in mind that I have very limited watering abilities due to my poor well.

Grass around here loves cool weather. Spring ok but fall seems to be better. Planted alot of tall fescue last October and it was still coming up in December and actually has even kept growing through this winter.

I would not plant in the summer unless you baby it with plenty of straw and constant wetting. It will fool you in the summer -- it comes up fine but then dies out unless you fuss with it. Then the crab grass moves in. I also believe that new grass is sensitive to the angle of the sun. Best to avoid summer if possible has been my experience.

With so little water, far and away the biggest factor is the water retaining ability of the soil, yet you give no information on depth of loam. You need at least eight inches of moisture holding soil. The next thing is what material is under the loam? If it is sand you will need even more loam. If it is clay material, which is more common, you need less loam, because the clay keeps the moisture from penetrating. One day when I had borrowed a truck to haul material for a project, a friend who had been trying to grow a garden asked me to deliver a load of clay fill to him for his garden. He pushed the soil off, spread the clay, and put the soil back, now he can grow vegetables. Do the landscapers know what is under the surface? If not, $2,000 may not be enough to make it work. Post back with needed information. Another thought is: don't condemn your fall seeding yet. it could have caught well, then went dormant with the cold, and is lurking under the straw waiting for spring.

With so little water, far and away the biggest factor is the water retaining ability of the soil, yet you give no information on depth of loam. You need at least eight inches of moisture holding soil. The next thing is what material is under the loam? If it is sand you will need even more loam. If it is clay material, which is more common, you need less loam, because the clay keeps the moisture from penetrating. One day when I had borrowed a truck to haul material for a project, a friend who had been trying to grow a garden asked me to deliver a load of clay fill to him for his garden. He pushed the soil off, spread the clay, and put the soil back, now he can grow vegetables. Do the landscapers know what is under the surface? If not, $2,000 may not be enough to make it work. Post back with needed information. Another thought is: don't condemn your fall seeding yet. it could have caught well, then went dormant with the cold, and is lurking under the straw waiting for spring.[/quote]

I don't have clay. Other than that I don't know much other than my soil does not retain water and after a couple feet is EXTREME shale. Even the surface had quite a bit of shale and I had a guy come in with a rock hound.

With so little water, far and away the biggest factor is the water retaining ability of the soil, yet you give no information on depth of loam. You need at least eight inches of moisture holding soil. The next thing is what material is under the loam? If it is sand you will need even more loam. If it is clay material, which is more common, you need less loam, because the clay keeps the moisture from penetrating. One day when I had borrowed a truck to haul material for a project, a friend who had been trying to grow a garden asked me to deliver a load of clay fill to him for his garden. He pushed the soil off, spread the clay, and put the soil back, now he can grow vegetables. Do the landscapers know what is under the surface? If not, $2,000 may not be enough to make it work. Post back with needed information. Another thought is: don't condemn your fall seeding yet. it could have caught well, then went dormant with the cold, and is lurking under the straw waiting for spring.[/quote]

I don't have clay. Other than that I don't know much other than my soil does not retain water and after a couple feet is EXTREME shale. Even the surface had quite a bit of shale and I had a guy come in with a rock hound.[/quote]

So should we take it to mean that you have?????inches of loam over ?????? inches of sand over the shale?

I am not a farmer or excavator that knows dirt to that extent. I did a soil test to tell me lime and fertilizer requirements but nothing else. I've told you all I know.

As far as sand I can't physically see any sand in the dirt. But I wouldn't know if I should.

I'd wait until closer to spring. Watch the forecast. When they say we've got a week's worth of rain coming, get out there and overseed and cover with straw. I did that 2 years ago, in eastern PA with the same ground as you have. The first year was ok, but like you said, looked terrible the following. So I reseeded heavily when the rain was coming, mid april or so, covered with straw, and let nature do it's thing.

It's still not perfect, but it's looking much better. Make sure you get good seed, too. not the once and done stuff. I've made that mistake before as well.

Not sure where you are in Central PA. I'm also in Central PA. Penn State developed a grass mix designed for the growing conditions in Central PA. It is sold at Ace Hardware in Dillsburg under the name Dillsburg mix. It may be sold at other hardware stores under a different name. I've used it. It does much better than every other type of grass seed I've used.

If you seeded last fall, it may still come up this spring. Generally, in my area, fall planting is better because it can get established before hot summer conditions. The best grass stand I ever had was planted in the fall and came up under the snow in the spring.

I believe that annual grass is always a huge mistake. It dies in August, and then what do you have? You have dead grass, and you have to start over. Use a good mixture of perennial lawn grasses. Do it as early in the Spring as possible to try to avoid dry spells.

I've always heard the best time to seed grass is on the last snow of the year,...now if you can figure out which one that is....

I use the athletic mix on mine, takes less water and more hardy, IMHO best time to seed is right before freeze.

(quoted from post at 08:21:52 02/08/17) I'd wait until closer to spring. Watch the forecast. When they say we've got a week's worth of rain coming, get out there and overseed and cover with straw. I did that 2 years ago, in eastern PA with the same ground as you have. The first year was ok, but like you said, looked terrible the following. So I reseeded heavily when the rain was coming, mid april or so, covered with straw, and let nature do it's thing.

It's still not perfect, but it's looking much better. Make sure you get good seed, too. not the once and done stuff. I've made that mistake before as well.

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Fatjay, does he have any soil for grass to grow in?

The formatting of this thread has gotten really funky looking. Are you guys seeing this too? Other threads don't look like this one for me.

At any rate, I think what I may do is see if my fall seeding will come up. At what point should I know if it will? Will it start sprouting as soon as it starts getting green in my area?

Like I said the grass you plant in the fall will grow on warm winter days, so you should you should see it coming up. If you planted in the fall it should be an inch or more tall by now. Funny thing is that grass will thrive in cold weather underneath something. For example if you laid a piece of plywood on grass you planted in the fall, it will grow underneath the plywood vs. in hot weather it will die.

Take another look at the varieties on the label on the seed you put down last October. Some perennial grasses are very slow. They can take a month to sprout in cool weather and eight to twelve weeks to get established. That Fall seed may take off well this Spring. I would not tear up the Fall seeding until I was certain it has failed. Check with a professional to find out what to expect from a late Fall seeding.

With a limited water supply, try to get the lawn established before the weather turns hot. If you have some high traffic areas, those will be hard to get started, consider putting sod on those.