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Machine Shop Prices OMG!

D

Danny Prosser

Member
I'll admit I've never had any work done at a shop until this week. I'm rebuilding my MF 230 Perkins that spun a rod bearing. I took the crank and pistons to a shop recommended to me by some very good mechanics that does their work. Well I picked them up yesterday and I did a little dickering and got the price to $185.00 for reworking the rods and turning the crank. That may be a good price I don't know. I asked him how much to change the sleeves out if I furnished the sleeves. He said $300.00. Now that seems a bit much to me what do you guys pay for something like that? It's got me to thinking if the ones in it look good and the pistons look good I might just leave that alone. After all it only ran for a couple of years on a major overhaul before the pump wet out and spun the bearing and it never run hot when it did. All help appreciated. Thanks.
 
(quoted from post at 07:18:25 02/03/17) I'll admit I've never had any work done at a shop until this week. I'm rebuilding my MF 230 Perkins that spun a rod bearing. I took the crank and pistons to a shop recommended to me by some very good mechanics that does their work. Well I picked them up yesterday and I did a little dickering and got the price to $185.00 for reworking the rods and turning the crank. That may be a good price I don't know. I asked him how much to change the sleeves out if I furnished the sleeves. He said $300.00. Now that seems a bit much to me what do you guys pay for something like that? It's got me to thinking if the ones in it look good and the pistons look good I might just leave that alone. After all it only ran for a couple of years on a major overhaul before the pump wet out and spun the bearing and it never run hot when it did. All help appreciated. Thanks.
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Seems reasonable to me.

Rick
 
Be thankful they are still in business. The reman exchange heads/engines have put the hurts to many shops, losing 2 in my area. $300 for R&R sleeves PROPERLY sounds reasonable imho.
 
Sounds like a bargain. If I told you how much my son just put in to his new shop,you'd swallow your tongue. He has to pay for that stuff and still bring home enough to live like everybody else.
He can get upwards of $30,000 to $40,000 for some of the high performance race engines he builds for folks with more money than sense,so messing with some of these low tech chump change jobs,well,we just need to be grateful that there's somebody around with the machines to do it.
 
A quality, affordable machine shop that caters to the YT type guy in addition to their high volume (make a living) work is surely an asset. I am lucky enough to have one handy. They like my business as being one of a kind, no boredom, we walk through the whys and wherefors, talk about options and all. Really a great experience for both of us.
 
(quoted from post at 10:18:25 02/03/17) I did a little dickering and got the price to $185.00 for reworking the rods and turning the crank.
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Cheap. And you beat him up on price? After the work was done?
 
My late brother was a Master Machinist,owned and operated his own shop. I was asked frequently to spend time at his shop, do a written report on a clients ENGINE that required work.
The high costs clients had to be aware of were often caused by someone usually NOT following SERVICE MANUL specifications!
$100.00 / hr. with warranty, by trades persons whom take pride in their craft is not unreasonable.
 
That's the thing,all the unpaid time on things. On Thanksgiving my son said it was gonna take him five hours,unpaid,to inspect,measure and price everything on an engine that came in. I told him that he did enough of them that he should have a good idea. He said if he estimated too high,they'd go somewhere else,if he went too low,they'd still expect the job to be done for the price he quoted.
 
Those prices are reasonable. You may want to go back, pay whatever he asked over the $185, plead ignorance, and hope he doesn't brush you off the next time you need work done. GOOD machinists are scarcer,n hens teeth and worth every penny they charge. I can personally testify to what a mediocre machinist who improperly grinds a crank can cost you in the long run.
 
The shop I use is a small but good machine shop, 5 guys working in the shop, they do all my head/rod work but can't deal with a 6 cylinder diesel crank, They just did a 359 head/rod for me the head was worn bad, needed seats guides,valves and springs, they furnished the parts, resized the rods the bill was $1540..a bit high but the engine had 1300 hours on it, it makes for a good O/H when all is done right.. "Sort-a" right is just not good enough for me..
 
You got a very good price. Good enough that it might not be a bad idea to stop by your local restaurant and get him a gift certificate to take his better half out to dinner.
 
Very reasonable pricing. That is a dry sleeve engine and they take time and effort to remove. I won't tell you what we charged to work on piston aircraft engine parts.
 
Well when I took it in the guy that helped me said the owner charged $95.oo to turn a crank and he thought $10 or so for the rods. They were supposed to look and see what it needed and call me with the cost but they never called me. I kept going by there to check on them and they said they hadn't got to it yet. Well I stopped by again yesterday afternoon and they said we just got finished with them (they never called with a price). I asked how much and he said did someone give me a price. I pointed to the guy and said yes he told me you charged $95 to turn a crank and he said well that's for a stock crank. I told him that was a stock crank for a Perkins diesel. He said well we consider them heavy duty or industrial and I usually get $185 for that by it's self and I just looked at him. I must have had fire in my eyes because he then said $125 for the crank and $20 for each rod and I wrote him a check. If your going to do the work without calling me and giving me a price I think he should have honored the $95 but I didn't argue. As far as overhead he is the son of the man that had that shop for almost 50 years so everything most likely was handed to him when his dad passed away last year.
 
Danny,
I am 80 years old and I am always stunned at prices today. BUT, whether he earned all his assets or they were handed down to him is of no importance here. If he is a good man he is a good man.

If you want to buy good quality oats you have to expect to pay a good price; however, if you want cheap oats then you have to buy oats that have been thru a horse...they come much cheaper.

Do what "M-Ma"n said, that little gesture will cause him to want to help you when you need help again. Little things mean a lot...to everybody.

I don't mean to pile on here, but quality work is priceless.
LA in WI
 
You got a real deal if he ground the whole crank shaft. Just the time it takes to set up a shaft in the grinder could cost 95 dollars.
 
Just always remember you get what you pay for. Cheap rate usually eguals cheap quality. A sign in the auto mechanic vocational class i attended years back read something like: The thrill of cheap price disappears rapidly with the problems of low quality arrising. A quality machine shop is not cheap
 
Hey LA are you going on the ride this yr route is s very nice one 65mi first day and 45 second day more lik a fun time that last yr 80mi a day is crazy at the last moment i didnt go and was glad 10hrs a day on a tractor ride is crazy last group got in very late.
 
Seems like his price was very good before you got him down. How he got his equipment has no relevance on what he should charge. You shouldn't be too surprised if you need something done again he just won't have time to do it. A good machinist is hard to find these days.
 
I dunno what to tell you. This sort of work is expensive. A good machine shop or two-three is a blessing and worth their wage. I have a couple I use locally. Each one does specialty work. I usually start at the front door but frequently I have been told to drive to the back of the building and find a certain door and ask for a certain guy. Usually a gray head surrounded by machines from another era. This is the guy who makes things happen when the computers go down. Usually chatty and always helpful. Handles what I need. Sometimes it is invoiced, sometimes is cash. I don't dicker with them. They tell me up front and I decide if it is cheaper to replace the item. Never any hard feelings. I make sure I stay on the good side of these guys. To me it is just the coolest thing in the world to be around all those machines, explain my problem, explain what I THINK I need, listen to what THEY think I need, bounce some ideas around and see what happens. Off the top of my head, the shops I use....metal fabricator, machinist shop, welder, spring maker...to name a few. These guys have pulled some rabbits out of hats for me!
 
Like I said I never had machine shop work done so I didn't know if it was good or bad. However I do know if you give a price you should honor it. The price really isn't what I'm complaining about it's not calling me like they said they would with a price and went ahead an done it. if I had not wanted to spend that much they didn't give me a chance to refuse and pick my stuff back up. To me that's not a very good business practice. Basiclly your spending my money wheather I want you to or not and that my friend to me is a reason to complain don't you think?
 
Pay it. Sound reasonable to me if the shop has a good rep.

I had an older Lamborghini with an Alum V-12 in it and one of the rings broke from lack of use. it gouged the steel sleeve in the block. By the time I was done with the machine work for the new sleeve it was > $400. For ONE jug repl. I should have replaced the piston in that bore but when I got a price for one new piston, I just cleaned it, put on rings and slapped it back in there.
 
I use an excellent machine shop in Cape Girardeau, Missouri. Before they do any work for me, they give me a written itemized estimate of the cost. It takes time for them to make this estimate - I think the last trip I made down there, the estimate was four pages long. This was for a 60+ year old tractor engine, and I could tell that the guy expected me to spook out about the cost, making his estimate a waste of time. I gave him the go-ahead, and the final bill was a couple hundred less than the estimate. He had shot a little high on the estimate in anticipation of finding a problem with my parts. I felt like I was dealing with an honest business - he could have charged the estimate or a little more, and I wouldn't have known.

I don't like dickering over prices after the work is completed. I appreciate the effort that they make to eliminate surprises - a written estimate gives a number to look at - if it won't budget, you can walk away before any work starts.
 
CHEAP here I have seen three times that much in one before costs Money to work on things and run equipment,, this is one of the big reasons I shut down my repair shop after 25 years no matter how good a price I gave there was always someone pitching a fit over it even if I lost money on the job,, go price a grinding stone and the crank grinding machine,, learn to operate it and see what you need to charge to see a profit,, and what does it matter how he got the equipment to do it with and for how much,, are you saying once you get it paid for you then do it for free or a much lesser charge? sorry if I seem harsh but it helps to see both sides
cnt
 
Danny P, the question no one has really answered yet is whether the sleeves are probably still good: Probably yes.

If you really wanted to freshen up the engine and install new sleeves, I would gladly someone $300 to professionally install dry sleeves. From what I've read of others experiences, I could easily expend $450 in blue words to do it myself, and even more in replacement replacement sleeves.

And for $185 for a diesel crank grind, I'd like to know where this guy is - I may want to send him my next crank.
 
Dickering may not be the wisest choice when working with a quote from a machine shop.

Many machinists tend to be perfectionists.

They think even their quotes are near perfect when estimating time/material jobs.

Questioning their quote feels like doubting their ability from their side of the fence.

Much better to just walk away if you can't afford the quote. Similar to dickering price on an open heart surgery.
 
Thanks Wellworn for answering my question. Everybody else seems to only be concerned about me questioning the price but that's not my point. If he had called me with the price I could have checked around and seen if it was in fact a good deal or not and according to all of the replies he would have gotten the price he wanted because it would have been a good deal and I would have known it. And no I'm not saying because his machines are paid for he should do it for free. What I'm saying is I might have wanted to get a new crank and just refurbish my rods. I don't know of any business that wouldn't get the go ahead on a job without checking with the customer.
 
Do you know how much it cost to own a machine shop and the cost of the machines in there ??? And the skill level to do the work . I had a good friend that i had knowen since the early sixty's set up a shop and had the latest and greatest machines in that shop at the time and he could bore any cylinder from 1.500 to 12.500 on a stationary boring bar that centered off the center line of the crank that was state of the art , that little toy set him back over 400000 bucks a line bore that could do up to a v 16 diesel and another 250000 bucks along with all the other toys . When his heart gave out he offered me his whole set up along with use of his shop for one year for the small price of a quarter mil . Yep that was a bargain but there was noway i could come up with that much . could i do the work , yep ran everything he had as when he was really busy and i needed something done fast he would say well you know where the machine is and you know how to use it . The line bore was the only one that i had a problem with set up as it took me way to long to get it set . Probably because i had only done a hand full of line bores here and there . So never complain how much it costs . Guys complain about the price of refacing a flywheel , they have never had to buy the replacement grinding stone for a flywheel grinder as they do not last vary long becasue it done correctly one should face the stone after each cut and each reface takes life off the stone , i know of some shops that do not do this and when you get the flywheel back you will find a radius on the outside edge and not a straight cut .
 
dickering on parts is acceptable many times- labor of the mechanic is not for my work- if it took longer as warned then I pay with no arguments. A workman is worthy of his hire. RN
 
As a business person, my price for repeat work is usually higher when I get dickered on work. I would rather not waste my time on customers that complain.
 
Point taken, Danny. I agree that they should have called you first, but some shops get overly busy, or just assume that if you dropped it off, you want it fixed because no-one else looking for work done there has a problem with price as both the shop and it's regular customers believe they are fair.

I know it becomes a hassle to both you and a business, but it's probably better to make sure you get quotes for these things in writing, especially if you are new to this work and these businesses.
 
The few times I've used machine shop services I've laid out well under $500 and it was always for some oddball job--reworking engine parts from an old British sports car or tractor or whatnot. When I look around I see they are working on high-end race car engines, big production jobs bringing in a lot of money to pay their bills. I've been happy with the work and price and the fact that they even take time to talk to me--since an "off the street" customer is generally a hiccup in their normal workflow.
 
Probably gave you that price just to get rid of you.I am amazed at the people that need something done. Then want to dicker about the price. I understand about trying to save money. But if it is something you need why does the price matter.
 
Don't want to jump on you but if your unhappy offended or feel cheated don't go back!!! Spend your time on putting the motor together (the crank or rods are done right)?? Yes he should have given you a quote or took a deposit on the job. And negotiation should be done before the sale not after. NOW ASK YOU SELF THIS: Is he or his outfit the kind that will drop what there doing to help you? Like grind a flywheel turn a brake drum, press something apart and not let it set for 4 weeks??? Myself I would like to be in the previous sentence with them.
 
Well with me prices have to matter. My wife and I are taking care of both of my stepsons who have problems and ones wife. We are also taking care of our grandchildren 5 that live with us one in collage and one that's on his own. That's the reason that price to me is important. If it's between fixing a tractor or something the family needs their needs come first. I'm not trying to throw a pity party just stating my circumstances. I have two other tractors that are old but run and I have 11 1/2 acres to mow of my own And I cut a few peoples small acreage for some extra money. So when something happens to one I try and fix it as I have money to do it and use another one. I tell my wife it takes several old tractors to rotate to ones that work!
 
Calling you and waiting while you dithered over what to do would have added another quarter to half hour of labor charge to the cost of your job. If they had called, would you have gone ahead with the even higher price or would you have pulled the job and sent it to another shop after the first shop took the time to clean up the parts and inspect them? Odds are that you would have gone ahead with it, so why pad the bill with a phone call. $100 bills are small change in a busy machine shop.
 
Danny Prosser- So, Danny, are you going to take the advice of many posters here? And make it right with the machine shop?
 
The thing to remember is the shop has huge expenses and they need to feed their families also.
 
(quoted from post at 12:46:36 02/03/17) Well with me prices have to matter. My wife and I are taking care of both of my stepsons who have problems and ones wife. We are also taking care of our grandchildren 5 that live with us one in collage and one that's on his own. That's the reason that price to me is important. If it's between fixing a tractor or something the family needs their needs come first. I'm not trying to throw a pity party just stating my circumstances. I have two other tractors that are old but run and I have 11 1/2 acres to mow of my own And I cut a few peoples small acreage for some extra money. So when something happens to one I try and fix it as I have money to do it and use another one. I tell my wife it takes several old tractors to rotate to ones that work!
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Danny, not to be "cold" or "blunt", I don't know of many "for profit" businesses that offer "pity discounts", I wish I would have some years ago, when I had 3 family members in rest homes that the farm had to pay for and two very ill children, one of who later passed away just before his 18th birthday after 100%, 24-hour care at home.

So, I know where you're coming from, yet the rest of the world doesn't "owe" you cheap labor prices.
 
I understand your problem. I am disabled and taking care of my nephew. Which means money is also tight around here. My truck needs tires so I don't leave town much. As tires will have to wait.

But the way you made it sound. Was that you had the money just didn't want to spend it. My grandfather was the same way. Needed a crowbar to get money out of his wallet. Talk to the machine shop owner. Take some paper work with you to prove you are not just trying to be cheap. That you have a very good reason to try and get the lowest price. I bet he will work with you.
 
What does any of your problems have to do with the price that the machine shop charges? Did he start telling you all the problems he has with a disabled child or a bed ridden mother? Everyone has problems.
 
Wow! I don't think you could get a lawn mower crank turned around here for $95. Three hundred is about the starting price. Sounds like that shop needs to get with the times. I think they must already be figuring in the fact that they've been there for 50 years and inherited all the equipment. I don't think $125 would even get you the family discount anywhere else.
 
You got a bargin. Had 3 machine shops 10 years ago in local town of 45,000 last one closed in Dec. Try running a business such as you just visited and have people dicker the bill gets real old we all have bills, problems, and family issues. As the owner of a tractor shop my vendors do not dicker on what I purchase.
 
No I'm not. And the reason being if he had called and told me what it would cost I would have told him that I'd have to wait and picked it back up. But being it was done I really didn't have much of a choice now did I?
 
All I'll say at this point is,$90 difference on a job like that,with the amount of money that goes through a shop like that,is like a convenience store charging you $1.25 for a candy bar instead of a dollar. It's all relative,a drop in the bucket to them in the general scheme of things. I don't think they'll go broke if you don't come back. As much setup time as is involved in grinding a crank,to me $185 is an unbelievable price.
 
(quoted from post at 11:50:29 02/03/17) No I'm not. And the reason being if he had called and told me what it would cost I would have told him that I'd have to wait and picked it back up. But being it was done I really didn't have much of a choice now did I?
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I think there are a bunch of hypocrites responding here just to jump on you. Some of us don't have this vast knowledge of machine shops that they speak of, and have to ask a shop for a quote up front to educate ourselves. The point is they gave you a quote and never called when they were going to exceed it by a fairly good percentage. I had the same thing happen to me the other day with a hydraulic cylinder that I had taken in to get seals replaced. No one needs that kind of shock when they go to pick up an item, and I would guess half the responders here would react the same way if it happened to them...or probably have in the past.
 
That was a great deal to start with!

I had a machine shop pull a fast one and not give me a quote (that I specifically requested) but just go ahead and turn the crank and resize the rods for my Farmall A.

When they called with the bill I thought they were joking, $1100 bucks if I remember correctly. I was a fool to pick those parts up, still kick my self today.

I've found much more reasonable shops since but would still expect to pay $400ish dollars for the work.

K
 
I could tell you how much is wrapped up in this shop,but then I'd have to shoot you.
a150512.jpg

a150513.jpg
 
My guess is $40-50 to the machinist for wages and benefits. The same for the cost of running the shop, taxes, upkeep, utilities, etc. and if lucky maybe $5 leftover for profit.
 
While I'm definitely in the minority here but I do see your point. If a guy in his shop told me 95 to turn the crank that's what I would be expecting and they really should have called if that's what they said they were gonna do. Maybe shop owner should have a talk with the employee about pricing stuff out he shouldn't be. Communication is key.
 
If money is so tight, why don't you sell all your tractors and buy one that is reliable? Seems if you have to keep switching from one to another to be able to get a job done you are just losing money constantly.
 
I had ONE rod journal turned 0.010" on a Kohler crankshaft last year, they charged me $90.00, I was not able to get a price before hand. I'm sure the set-up was involved, but it was a bit more than I had expected.
 
I THINK IT'S AMAZING HOW CRITICAL MOST REPLIES ARE ON HERE,
Bottom line here is Danny was asking for advise, not lectures.
I think most of you are missing the point of his questions.
 
Measure the bore and if it is les than 8 thousands out of round just have it honed. I have done many engines and they last as long as a new engine. The pistons might slap for a minute till they warm up but who cares!
 
"Now that seems a bit much to me what do you guys pay for something like that?"

That's the only sentence in the whole post that ends in a question mark as far as I can see. Am I missing one somewhere?
 
$300.00 for installing dry sleeves is more than reasonable. Dry sleeves are a royal PITA and easy to screw up. I would never attempt to install them myself after seeing the correct way to do it with the proper tools.
 
Danny every reply gave you their answer and WELLWORN said it the best. Here's mine it sounds sarcastic but isn't. Squaring the crank and rods away was pretty reasonable for what had to be done--the block may also needed work such as welding and milling then line turning all complicated and exacting and $185 is pretty good. Now working on the sleeves is heavy work has some risk, it doesn't matter how they look or feel it matters how the "mick" out. Doing this requires specialized knowledge and equipment--do you have it? If not let the machine shop do it. $300 is cheap I had a 4 cylinder gas head done with new guides and ground valves and a surfaced head cost over $1000. Your only changing sleeves. Maybe you need new rings/ wrist pins and maybe new pistons all depends on well the job was done the first time.
Remember I talked about the 4 cylinder gas motor--a Volvo turbo motor it had broken rings on 2 cylinders the whole job required 2 sleeves and 4 cylinders bored to the same size. Then new pistons/ rings/ bearings/ seals and gaskets cost of the whole job, A THE MACHINE SHOP, was $4000 and I did all the disassembly and assembly on a 15 year old car. Worth it? a valid question that I asked. Still driving the car today with over 300,000 miles 200,000 on the rebuild and no problems. The body's falling apart and a professional Volvo mechanic wants the car for parts--soon.
I guess my final answer is to check what has to be done and the cost before you start. Can you do it and can you afford it. If you can't do it or can't afford don't do it!
 
Nice hobby shop , But did not see anything like Dick had setting there , I know the cost of that stuff . Just like getting set up to injection pumps .
 
Regardless of how u feel about the communication here , I would also keep in mind not only do these guys have to do the work they have to guarenty , and u did get hell of deal on crank but not ur fault he may have miss quoted u most places will do the work on something like that with out calling u unless they find something wrong or odd about the job , and trust me they don't want to spend anymore time on the phone than they have too , sounds like u got miss quoted by original guy
 
This would be the shop owners view. You came in and wanted a job done. He already has valuable time in talking with you. If you ask him for a firm quote on a job he is going to quote at the worst case scenario and the price will be higher than you would pay if you just trusted him and accepted the hourly rate. Once he has a man one the job you can't expect him to have this guy stand around and wait for an answer as whether or not to proceed. If you say no to much, he has already lost as he has time with you and has a man on the job. You say no and he gets nothing for his effort. As a customer you need to understand that he is in control and he will treat you like you treat him. Its called building a relationship. Before you ever walked in his door he has been subject to hundreds of hagglers that didn't value the shop to customer relationship. AS a shop owner you get pretty good at reading the customer. I will bet that the next time you go to his shop he will be too busy to fit you in. In my area all of us shop owners knew one another and if your area is similar you will find that you need to go to the next town to have work done. Bottom line is if you treat a shop owner well he will value the relationship and treat you well and take care of you. Otherwise he will send you on your way.
 
when I did a MF I welded sleeves a got them out. Installed the new ones straight from freezer, slipped right in and could not move them in an hour....
 
Excellent point. In the shop where my son worked,before he bought them out,it got to the point where they wouldn't even answer the phone until 3 in the afternoon. They had work to do and all they were doing was talking on the phone. They had enough business that they could afford to turn away anybody who couldn't live with that arrangement.
 
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