Monsanto suing state of california

Saw that on the news tonight. News said the world health organization thinks that roundup may cause cancer. They don't have any proof, but they suspect it may. California. Is planning on labeling round up as causing cancer. Monsanto filed suit. This should be interesting.

This has been floating around for a couple of years. Good or bad these things move as fast as a green forest slug. If we could all run around naked and lunch on milk and honey. Would things be better? Crazy.

Does anything not cause cancer in California?

McDonald's must post on their door that their product may cause cancer. The warnings at the lumber yard are ridiculous. You'd think if you ever cut a piece of wood you'd end up with a six headed kid.

That's the type of case where its a shame there has to be a winner.

In the 50s we embraced new technologies pretty quickly, through the 60s we didn't ask too many questions because the results were amazing.

In the 70s we started seeing that we have problems if we don't have checks and balances. The 80s we started paying much better attention.

In the 90s we got our act together a lot better.

In the 2000s some goofy people got a voice and somehow corrupted things the wrong way. Now we are so scared of technology we hurt ourselves the reverse way.

Pendulums swing slow and too far, I guess.

We lived kinda wrecklessly in the 60s and 70s, man we would have so much safer stuff in 2010s now, but the activists are 40 years behind, they are still protesting the products back then by banning the better stuff we have now. Goofy.

Paul

Monsanto CEO was interviewed on TV
Not too long ago , said the goal was to
feed the world , but even on TV he was
not saying how safe Monsanto prouducts
are. Now we know , better grow your
own food on Momsato free land

The WHO part is not news... that was spring of 2015. They classed it in the same cancer causing class as coffee. (yep)

WHO later removed both. Is the Califonia thing new??

I saw this on the news tonight myself here in N.C . It was new stuff not 2015 stuff

Nothing to worry about. Bayer will give you 2 asprins and the cancer will go away in the morning. Just finished watching Rachel Carson on PBS. She was ahead of her time.

This has been discussed nearly to death, and the facts seem to be that the facts aren't all in yet. Industry testing has repeatedly shown that glyphosate is "safe". I'm not aware of any long term industry sponsored testing that says "Roundup" (that mixture of glyphosate, surfactants, adjudavents, etc) is. It may be another 20 years before the matter is settled beyond any doubt, one way or another.

Either way, I DO know that NOT using Roundup, or 2-4-5t, or Dicamba, or whatever else thats' sole purpose is to kill a pest, or weed, or fungus, won't cause cancer; won't be in my soil or showing up in my water, and NOT using such chemicals certainly seems to address a growing market demand for the things we raise, whether "justified by current (industry based) science" or not. Gotta remember that Big Tobacco lied to us for decades about the "health benefits" of smoking (based on their own "very knowledgeable" research), in large part because they had hundreds of billions riding on the outcome. IIRC, Tobacco "settled", when the Surgeon General filed suit, but to this day still do not admit that tobacco use is harmful. Big Ag, with many times more money at stake, would never stoop that low. Or would they? Maybe they're dealing with "alternate facts".

Are you aware that Rachael Carson has been exposed as a fraud for making up data?

Dean

Who mentioned Rachel Carson, or cited her as a source? Irrelevant to this discussion unless you are implying that both sides are capable of "inventing facts" as suits their purposes. It's just that some acts, regardless of the "facts", are inherently safer than others. As one example: seatbelts and air bags will never do a thing to reduce injury or save a life if you are never involved in an accident, yet insurance companies have lobbied long and hard to make that safety equipment not only standardized, but legally required to be used in most areas. I've put well over a million miles behind a wheel and never had a "need" for either. My better half totaled a car last summer, and walked away.

Perhaps you can prove that not using chemicals is hazardous to my health, that the specific lack of ag chemicals in my environment will cause disease.

Please, present your case.

Agreed. Making up fake data wasn't common until the last 10 years.

About the only thing that don't cause cancer/birth defects to calif. standards is abnormal mating habits.

Specious argument, WW.

Not getting up in the morning will not cause falls. Similar reasoning.

Life is not risk free. just about any activity is a trade off.

Myself, I would like the option of buying or not buying seat belts, air bags (you name it) rather than being forced to conform by big brother.

Dean

Don't matter if you are for or against Round UP. It boils down to this. Big chemical companies have lied for years for profit. Given that fact and the fact that the end user has no way of knowing if they are being told the truth or not adds up to one thing. A decision each has to make. That decision is are you willing to risk your health, the health of your spouse, children, grandchildren for profit? Because without knowing for sure one way or another that is exactly what you are doing. Putting profit ahead of family! When a companies put profit ahead of safety all of you, no matter which side get angry. Should you be held to less of a standard?

Rick

glennster,

This Monsanto things can be traced back to the WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION who says there is limited data to support the claim Round up causes cancer.

I've been trying to tell people the WHO is working behind the scenes to change the way the world does business.
geo

Another good reason not to live in California! To bad the fault wouldn't break off and it would fall into the sea!

(quoted from post at 23:17:44 01/27/17) Nothing to worry about. Bayer will give you 2 asprins and the cancer will go away in the morning. Just finished watching Rachel Carson on PBS. She was ahead of her time.

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Sorry but Rachel Carson was a fruit loop, responsible for thousands of deaths due to disease that could have been prevented. She was evil, pure and simple lying evil.

(quoted from post at 10:05:52 01/28/17) Life is not risk free. just about any activity is a trade off.

Myself, I would like the option of buying or not buying seat belts, air bags (you name it) rather than being forced to conform by big brother.

Dean

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Thanks for the reply, Dean.

Very true. Life is not risk free, and I fully grant you every right to take those risks for yourself. Chemicals in our environment are not just a risk for you. Roundup has shown far greater persistence in some soils than is 'advertised'. It has been found in the urine of city dwellers and in the breast milk of nursing moms. GMO traits are showing up in the wild. Plants and pests are rapidly becoming immune to the GMO traits, hence the "need" to add traits for increasingly toxic and persistent stuff like 2-4-5t.

Using these things puts you as an engineer on a train that all of us are aboard, and if you and the other engineers choose to go 250 mph (or shoot for 250bu/ac corn) just because there is more profit in it for you and all the others invested in this, you are not just risking your life, but the life and health of everyone else, even if that risk is to "only" 10% of the population. Is is worth it to have even one of 10 people you know become ill due to your acts? What if it was 20%? or more as a few billion more pounds of glyphosate+Dicamba+2-4-5t are applied every year that fewer and fewer yet bigger (and more subsidized) BTO's can "feed the world"?

Not a risk I want to take, nor support.

Nor do I have a simple and easy answer to "fix" this. The problems with ag are huge, entrenched, and the answer[b:a89ff1be88][u:a89ff1be88]s[/u:a89ff1be88][/b:a89ff1be88] far from simple, in part because people value their 'stuff' far more than what goes into food or the cost to anyone or anything else in it's production, "just as long as it's cheap." They have McMansions to pay for, new cars or luxury SUV's, and huge data bills to stream Netflix and ESPN on their smart phones (upgraded every year), along with astronomical health insurance premiums to pay. The latter is not just indicative, but an indictment of just how inured we are to "fixing" problems, rather than preventing them.

Also an apology - I missed the previous post mentioning Carson.

If you want more good reading, check out I G Farben on Wicipedia and google Chapter Two, the Empire of I G Farben. The latter tells of many Germans in high positions in US banking and corporations. This still goes on today of the corporation directors intermingled with each other at very high compensation. It is going on in government.

You keep mentioning 2,4,5-t. You do know it was banned back in the '80's, don't you? If not, maybe you
don't know what you are talking about on the rest of this!

Correct on one point: I confused 2,4,5T with 2,4,D, both of which were used in "Agent Orange" (back in my day). Where I used "2,4,5t", I should have said "2,4,d". On that point, I stand corrected. Thanks for making me double check. I want the facts straight just as much as nearly anyone else.

And as of the news this evening, California won the suit. Wonder who is next in line?

Myself, I would like the option of buying or not buying seat belts, air bags (you name it) rather than being forced to conform by big brother.

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We're forced to conform by big brother because people refuse to take responsibility for themselves. In our society if someone strains themselves through the windshield because they weren't wearing a seatbelt, and/or (hypothetically) opted out of airbags, it's the CAR MANUFACTURER'S fault for not telling them the risks, or supplying them with the car as standard equipment.

If we as a society said, "too bad so sad, but you %$#@ your bed now sleep in it" when people suffer consequences for the decisions they make, a lot of this would not exist. It's human nature to blame someone else, but we've turned it into an art form.