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New animal drug rules are going to limit choice!!!!

J

JD Seller

Well-known Member
I just got several letters this week from the Vets we do business with. They deal with the VFD regulations going into effect in Jan. The jest of this is your going to have to have prescription for drugs used in livestock. The general public is too darn stupid to have any idea of how or why medicines are used on livestock. So they think that we use tons of unnecessary drugs in production agriculture. The Communist government we are under now is forcing this on to us now under the guise of human health safety. The science does not back up the premise that drugs used on food producing animals is creating resistance in the human infections. So we are going to have fewer choices and higher cost!!!

So here is how the letters went:

1) First vet we have used the longest. He is around retirement age and is stopping all large animal care Jan. 1st. Just great!!!! Sound like what is happening with the Affordable care act?????

2) Second vet. Usually only called on for the Grand Daughter's horses. They will continue large animal care BUT only if all drugs are bought and administered by their staff. The letter is not real clear exactly they are meaning by this. Are we going to be able to give anything ourselves???

3) Third vet. He will continue large animal care and will write prescriptions for drugs use administered by the farmer/owner. The kicker here is he will not write prescriptions IF he is not the ONLY vet taking care of said livestock. This really sounded like a strong arm tactic to me. He gets all or none of your business. Then I read up the rules that the vets are going to have to live under with this. They can lose their license to practice if drugs are administered incorrectly.

There are some educational clinics planned later this fall on this subject. The information I am getting is confusing at times and is infuriating at all times.

Truthfully if the boys where not involved I would just pull the plug on the livestock right now. The lower prices coupled with the new rules and regulations are sure taking the "fun" out of all of this.

This will cause more consolidation in the livestock industry. The big guys will have a vet on staff. The record keeping will be a pain too. I can just bet that they will want mountains of information kept. Never have seen a government bureaucrat that did not love paperwork.
 
They want single vet so you can't shop around for a stock pile of drugs. In other words....... . Go out and buy as much stock as you can buy NOW! For my cats I bought a couple of $18.oo packs of antibiotics. They last for years. Just remember how good DDT used to work?
We need to vote the right person in. Mho
 
My friend has a small buisness in NJ.He just told me the other day the govt paperwork alone is choking him.They have made it very tough on small people.My other friend the stone mason got stopped on the way to nj at the scale with his empty little mason dump,,lost one hr of work,,got stopped on the way home the same day with his empty mason dump,,another hr lost.His truck is one year old.How much time can a amall buisness absorb?
 
I believe that part of it is in response to antibiotic resistant bacteria. I recently read an article that was quite scary as to the future of most current antibiotics in human health. It was strongly attacking the over prescription of antibiotics in human health as the primary culprit, but also addressed the use, and in the author's view,overuse in the at sector. Certainly none of us want to go back to the days per penicillin when a minor injury could well be a death sentence!
 
As it stands right now the VFD only affects medication in feed and mineral...supposedly. Injectable medication is also on the hit list. There are some medications that will still be available "over the counter" but the effectiveness is questionable.
The thing is to get a relationship with your vet. That may be a problem for some in areas where cattle are not as populated. My vet says that as long as he has had regular visits to my farm then it won't be a big problem getting a prescription. The problem may be in getting the medication I need. The local coop is no longer going to carry medicated feed additives or any medicated mineral. They say there is too much paper work and liability for them to fool with. I only know of 1 local feedmill that is going to keep medication for feed.
This will undoubtedly increase costs for producers and will do little, if anything, for a problem that probably doesn't exist.
 
You would be better off sticking to tractors rather than spouting right wing political nonsense. The rules say no political comments.
 
(quoted from post at 18:47:35 10/23/16) You would be better off sticking to tractors rather than spouting right wing political nonsense. The rules say no political comments.
Click to expand...
what "political nonsense"? The fact that many on this forum believe that government over-regulation is out of control? Our township passed an ordinance where they can fine you if you have grass growing in the cracks in your sidewalk. Ever take a look at the wetlands regulations? A mud puddle can be classified as a wetland. If I see a cat-tail growing in any low area of my property, I cut it down quick as I can. So, if you believe any of the post is "nonsense", please be specific and cite facts to back up your claim.
 
Don't you just love it when some guy with 50 posts who has been here for two months comes on and quotes forum policy to you? And rudely at that? What a shame you cannot discuss an important farming issue without someone like that coming along.
 
Joe wait until your business/livelihood is regulated right and left by the government of know nothings. Then I will bet you will be happy to comment on the issue.
 
A comment about your first vet - around here a lot of vets stop making farm calls as they get older and get into the small animal side of being a vet where they can set up a clinic at their house. People around here paying big money on their pets and to the vet its a lot easier that dealing with a 1500 lb cow.I guess I would too if I were in that position.The vet we had for our farm in the 60's is still practicing - all he does is tend to small animals. Done only that since the late 90's.He used to tell us about how many speeding tickets he had gotten trying to get to an emergency at a farm.
 
Joe I hate that you don't want any politics but this is an issue that eventually will affect everyone that eats. In 30 years and maybe less we'll see the cattle industry working similar to the way the poultry industry and hogs are now. You won't own the cows on your farm and you will be under the whims of the company you are growing for. At one time I didn't think I would see it in my lifetime but I see the winds shifting. The family may own the land and some of the equipment but the management will be done by an outside company. The row crop and rice industry is already a step ahead in some areas. I believe that eventually there will be a company or companies that dictate what crops are grown on your land, who gets the grain and how it's fed. George Orwell might have been off a little on the time frame but the concept is coming quickly.
 
this is also what I understand it is being implemented. One thing I also heard was the VFD papers are for
each specific load of feed or med. And the Vet will charge $50-$300 for each prescription.
 
Well farmers have pretty much brought this on themselves.In my opinion antibiotics should never be fed as a growth stimulate and if a farmers cattle need to be fed antibiotics in their feed constantly to keep them alive then there needs to be a change in how the animals are being managed.I can't remember the last time I had to give one of my cows or calves antibiotics and if I do its in the form of an injection and usually for something like a wound and my cattle are not the least bit pampered but are out on pasture and have decent place to lie down,loaf in the shade,good water etc.
 

That's the way I understand it too. It can also be for an individual animal so the feed can't be fed in a feeder in some cases. My vet says if he knows the rancher well he may issue a prescription over the phone but that is why you need a good relationship with your vet.
 
So what do you do with your feeder calves when they get snotty noses in fall damp weather? Let it get worse until they get pneumonia? You are one of the many jokers on here that think they have it all figured out. I hardly ever need to medicate but you can bet your a$$ I am going to do it if not doing so risks losing animals.
 
The way they do it here in Canada is we're not required to have a written prescription if we're following the label. Most people go over so in cases where you feel you should and the vet agrees they write you a blanket prescription that is valid for a year. Ex. lable for Cefa-lac (mastitis treatment) says treat the infected quarter 1x/day for s maximum of 3 days. You can get a prescription to treat the quarter 2x/day for a maximum of 4 days.
 
C'mon....do you really believe that cattle are constantly fed antibiotics in their feed to keep them alive??? Where did you get that notion??? Ben
 
The same BS has been thrust upon us here in Canada for almost two years now. Other than more paper work , and some more Vet fees , It has been business as usual. All of this is just knee jerk reaction from the "safe food " animal welfare types , getting the ignorant population stirred up. Then law makers must act to quell the fears . General population doesn't care a fig about the cost in $$ or time to farmers , this is all framed in the name of tracebility , and best animal care practice.
 
Why not get them up and give them an injection? Like I said I rarely have to give anything an antibiotic mostly because I figure I try to keep my livestock under low stress conditions
but if an animal is sick and needs antibiotics I have no problem with that but not giving the whole herd antibiotics none stop.
 
Yes,I read where now you will need to have a "relationship" with your vet, and it"s discouraged that you deal with more than one vet. Certain drugs have been restricted or eliminated for personal farmer purchase, and it"s only going to get worse. Been out of livestock for over 13 years, and don"t miss the hassle.
 
Ron,
According to John T, Joe Mindy is or was a college history professor. He's been on the forums before using several different names such as Tom 43. I doubt his livelihood will ever be over regulated by government. He the guy who insists the starting/charging system on the old 24V Deere diesels is grounded as apposed to isolated from ground.
 
Probably will be able to get them from another country with problems. Antibiotics for people are sold OTC in the Bahamas. I pick up some when I was in Nassau last winter and they were from the US.
 
Giving a shot to 600 head of cattle is easy work!!! About the only time I use antibiotics in feed is on calves that have just came on the farm. Even with giving them shots as they arrive you still some times have break out that are pretty much group wide.

The lack of scientific evidence this is a problem or even an issue is what really POs me. It is mainly a "feel good" thing that sounds good to someone not involved or knowledgeable about this.
 
Isn't this similar to the problem with bacteria resistance to Sulfa drugs back in the 1970's? How was that resolved?
 
(quoted from post at 14:12:31 10/23/16) I just got several letters this week from the Vets we do business with. They deal with the VFD regulations going into effect in Jan. The jest of this is your going to have to have prescription for drugs used in livestock. The general public is too darn stupid to have any idea of how or why medicines are used on livestock. So they think that we use tons of unnecessary drugs in production agriculture. The Communist government we are under now is forcing this on to us now under the guise of human health safety. The science does not back up the premise that drugs used on food producing animals is creating resistance in the human infections. So we are going to have fewer choices and higher cost!!!

So here is how the letters went:

1) First vet we have used the longest. He is around retirement age and is stopping all large animal care Jan. 1st. Just great!!!! Sound like what is happening with the Affordable care act?????

2) Second vet. Usually only called on for the Grand Daughter's horses. They will continue large animal care BUT only if all drugs are bought and administered by their staff. The letter is not real clear exactly they are meaning by this. Are we going to be able to give anything ourselves???

3) Third vet. He will continue large animal care and will write prescriptions for drugs use administered by the farmer/owner. The kicker here is he will not write prescriptions IF he is not the ONLY vet taking care of said livestock. This really sounded like a strong arm tactic to me. He gets all or none of your business. Then I read up the rules that the vets are going to have to live under with this. They can lose their license to practice if drugs are administered incorrectly.

There are some educational clinics planned later this fall on this subject. The information I am getting is confusing at times and is infuriating at all times.

Truthfully if the boys where not involved I would just pull the plug on the livestock right now. The lower prices coupled with the new rules and regulations are sure taking the "fun" out of all of this.

This will cause more consolidation in the livestock industry. The big guys will have a vet on staff. The record keeping will be a pain too. I can just bet that they will want mountains of information kept. Never have seen a government bureaucrat that did not love paperwork.
Click to expand...

I can't speak to the other issues, but when we had horses, we had 2 vets get out of large animal practice. More money, easier work, and the clients come to you.
 
There is no 'lack of scientific evidence' concerning antibiotic resistance. The short term use like you cited would be OK except you know that's not the way it goes the stock are
constantly fed antibiotics in their rations just look at the huge amount of antibiotics being fed.
 
And a whip lever on the likes of us in Oz that export your way - in keeping with the latest "ecologically sustainable" activities
 
(quoted from post at 21:03:03 10/23/16) Well farmers have pretty much brought this on themselves.In my opinion antibiotics should never be fed as a growth stimulate and if a farmers cattle need to be fed antibiotics in their feed constantly to keep them alive then there needs to be a change in how the animals are being managed.I can't remember the last time I had to give one of my cows or calves antibiotics and if I do its in the form of an injection and usually for something like a wound and my cattle are not the least bit pampered but are out on pasture and have decent place to lie down,loaf in the shade,good water etc.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree. So many people seem to rush to administer a medicine. It's the same in human medicine. We saw this with my FIL at the nursing home where the guy was getting a 100mg dose of a via gra type med daily. When asked why, the doc said it was because my FIL, who thinks it's 1954, tells him about the relations he's having. The man can't get in our out of bed without assistance and they think he's Don Juan! But it's strictly a CYA move- if there's a complaint, medicate it.

Something else that's caused this is the people, druggies for the most part, that have TB or other diseases and never finish their course of treatment. As in an animal, the disease builds up a resistance to the med until it becomes ineffective. I was being taught about this 15 years back, it's nothing new.

We brought this on ourselves.
 
(quoted from post at 12:27:46 10/24/16)

We brought this on ourselves.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but those of us with pleasure/companion animals (horses, llamas, alpacas, etc.) that will never see the human food chain will suffer also and increase our expenses. Luckily we have a good relationship with our vets and their office is pretty close to our place so if we need something we can get it fairly quickly. I plan to stock up before year end.
 
The veterinarian industry sees all of the chaos happening on medical side thanks to Obumma-care. They're out to get more control of your wallet like their people doctor friends. Daughter just had to pay over $600 for a vet check after buying a horse.
 
(quoted from post at 08:18:13 10/24/16) The veterinarian industry sees all of the chaos happening on medical side thanks to Obumma-care. They're out to get more control of your wallet like their people doctor friends. Daughter just had to pay over $600 for a vet check after buying a horse.
Click to expand...


It is easier to get into med school than vet school.
 
I have a call in to our vet right now. We are loading pigs this afternoon, the barn will be empty tonight. If we do another batch, it'll go into 2017 and we'll have to comply with the VFD.

We are a small producer, so the profit is small as well. We won't be able to absorb too much added expense on our bottom line.

This may very well be the end of us and pigs here.
 
What was political about his post? All I read was a current statement of facts about the present situation in animal agriculture. It's been going on here in Canada for close to 10 years in the dairy industry and the screws are tightening down on everything else this year. I'm about at the point that I will not admit to owning anything on hooves anymore in case there be a regulator standing around the corner.

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 09:00:51 10/24/16)
(quoted from post at 12:27:46 10/24/16)

We brought this on ourselves.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but those of us with pleasure/companion animals (horses, llamas, alpacas, etc.) that will never see the human food chain will suffer also and increase our expenses. Luckily we have a good relationship with our vets and their office is pretty close to our place so if we need something we can get it fairly quickly. I plan to stock up before year end.
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with what type of animals you have. The organisms in play build up immunities or resistance and pass that along into the biosphere. Over time what used to work doesn't. Anyone with sheep or goats has seen this in a relatively short time. The chemical industry told us to use lots and lots of wormer and boy did we. We built up resistance in the worms, unknowingly of course, sold our stock and passed those resistant worms onto other people in other areas. If you sit in food court or at a movie next to some person that is carrying a strain of multiple drug resistant TB, you might pick it up and not know for months. Meanwhile you've passed it on to an untold number of people. Not everyone is going to show the symptoms or even know they have it until they get tested. But we don't "violate the rights" of our druggies and insane by putting them someplace we can ensure they get a full course of treatment for a disease and they spread this stuff around. The doc's keep passing out meds to keep the patients happy and get those kickbacks from the drug companies and then we wonder why medicine "A" doesn't seem to be as effective as it used to be. ( I won't even get into the hand sanitizer rage)

Yes, we brought this on ourselves through blissful ignorance and faith in industries that profited from indiscriminate use of their products.
 
Have you even thought about this? When you go to order a bottle of whatever you use to treat 'injuries' and find out you need a license and a vet and cripes knows what else just to make the purchase... and find out that simple 'injury' cost you a grand to treat... will it register then? This isn't about product safety, or food safety. It's about absolute totalitarian control of the food supply. You and the rest of the ilk that have spent your lives slagging 'conventional' agriculture will before long find out that the long arms of the creature you've created will grab you and consume you the same as everyone else.

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 16:45:00 10/25/16) Have you even thought about this? When you go to order a bottle of whatever you use to treat 'injuries' and find out you need a license and a vet and cripes knows what else just to make the purchase... and find out that simple 'injury' cost you a grand to treat... will it register then? This isn't about product safety, or food safety. It's about absolute totalitarian control of the food supply. You and the rest of the ilk that have spent your lives slagging 'conventional' agriculture will before long find out that the long arms of the creature you've created will grab you and consume you the same as everyone else.

Rod
Click to expand...

I agree, but that takes us into the Monsanto/GMO discussion and tempers really flare when you start talking about where it's headed.
 
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