wiring question

apilato · Oct 4, 2016

We have had a 1954 Ferguson T030 tractor for years. It started as a 6volt system but has been converted to a 12 volt system. The tractor had been acting strangely lately; mainly just not turning off when shutdown. We did a tune up on it and it worked great for about a month. Then it failed. The last thing we did was replace the 6volt starter with a 12 volt one.

Now when we try and start it; it turns over but kills the battery pretty quickly. And there is what I believe to be a starting solenoid which connects the positive when the starter button I pushed. There is enormous amount of heat at the positive side. Going over the various wiring diagrams I don't see this starting solenoid. I have a 12 volt alternator, a 12 volt coil, and a 12 volt starter. Do I need a solenoid for the starter? Is there a wiring diagram which covers this tractor with an alternator instead of generator.... Thanks in advance...

Andy

Steve@Advance · Oct 4, 2016

The TO30 does not have, nor does it need a starter solenoid. What you are seeing is a heavy duty starter contacter that closes when you push the start lever. The reason it is getting hot is because there is a high electrical resistance for some reason. Could be a loose cable, a bad cable connection, the contacts are dirty, burned or worn, or the switch is out of adjustment and is not closing tightly.

The problem was probably there with the 6v starter, but with the 12v starter it was made more noticeable since the 12v starter draws twice the amps.

Take a look at the switch area, correct the heating, and the starter will work much better.

As for not shutting off when the ignition is off, that can be an alternator wiring problem. Do you know what type alternator it has? If it is a Delco "3 wire" type, there needs to be a resistor or diode in the wire from terminal 1 to the ignition switch.

Or, there could be a wiring problem, could be the ignition switch. Just have to do some testing and inspecting to find the problem. Look up under the dash, if anything is growing green corrosion, there is a potential problem.
Alternator wiring

JMOR · Oct 4, 2016

(quoted from post at 23:19:44 10/04/16) The TO30 does not have, nor does it need a starter solenoid. What you are seeing is a heavy duty starter contacter that closes when you push the start lever. The reason it is getting hot is because there is a high electrical resistance for some reason. Could be a loose cable, a bad cable connection, the contacts are dirty, burned or worn, or the switch is out of adjustment and is not closing tightly.

The problem was probably there with the 6v starter, but with the 12v starter it was made more noticeable since the 12v starter draws twice the amps.

Take a look at the switch area, correct the heating, and the starter will work much better.

As for not shutting off when the ignition is off, that can be an alternator wiring problem. Do you know what type alternator it has? If it is a Delco "3 wire" type, there needs to be a resistor or diode in the wire from terminal 1 to the ignition switch.

Or, there could be a wiring problem, could be the ignition switch. Just have to do some testing and inspecting to find the problem. Look up under the dash, if anything is growing green corrosion, there is a potential problem.
Alternator wiring

since the 12v starter draws twice the amps. " Really, now??? :roll:

apilato · Oct 4, 2016

Thanks for the quick response. I will have to get the alternator type tomorrow.

Steve@Advance · Oct 4, 2016

I should clarify...

If operated on it's intended voltage, a 6v will draw twice the amps. But if operated on 2x it's rated voltage, amps cut in half.

When the 12v starter was installed, the amps would increase to a normal range, which would be twice what the 6v starter was drawing.

Dell (WA) · Oct 5, 2016

Steve.......the normal reason fer converting to 12-volts is the 6-volt starter motor will spin FASTER and start yer low compression engine faster. NO NEED to install a 12-volt starter motor. Its yer money, yer choice. Howsomevers...6-volt ignition coils need some electrical doctoring. You need a 12-to-6 volt converting resistor, whose value depends upon yer ignition coil. BTW, continue to use the same sparkies you've been using, theres NO 12-volt sparkies. .........HTH, Dell, yer 12-volt advocate for the right reasons, that said, I haven't found the right reason fer my eazy startin' 6-volt positive ground 52-8N tractor and I know how to do it right the FIRST time

Janicholson · Oct 5, 2016

I agree, The reality is that the amps do increase with a 12v on a 6v starter, but not near twice as much. The tractor has a 12v battery and a 12v
starter and so should show far less amps to spin the engine compared to a 6v on 6v system. Heat in a starting system can come from a poor connection, or
failing corroded conductor, but it can also come from a failed starter that drags or is internally shorted. Starter motors have resistance values in
tenths of an ohm, whether 6 or 12v. Jim

dr sportster · Oct 5, 2016

Like Steven said -- that is a starter relay. Any point of heat is a point of resistance. When you find heat look for a bad connection. Look for corrosion , clean up with wire brush and use small amount of copper paste to make tight connections. Resistance = heat build up.

apilato · Oct 5, 2016

The alternator currently on the tractor has a "SINGLE" wire, not
three. It appears to be the same alternator that comes in the 6v to 12v upgrade kit sold online.

One of my main question concerns the heavy duty starter contacter. The answer given stated there was never a solenoid and I don't need that. But do I need or is there a problem using a heavy duty starter contrater?

Really what I need is a good wiring diagram. One with or without a starter contracer.

thanks,

Andy

wiring question

apilato

New User

Steve@Advance

Well-known Member

JMOR

Well-known Member

apilato

New User

Steve@Advance

Well-known Member

Dell (WA)

Well-known Member

Janicholson

Well-known Member

dr sportster

Well-known Member

apilato

New User

Similar threads