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Estates and how we deal with them.

J

JD Seller

Well-known Member
Greg's post below got me to thinking about how many things have to be dealt with when we die. One of the biggest is the material things we have accumulated over our life time. I have seen too many families fall apart dealing with this "stuff". Completely falling out over simple things. The item that causes the contention maybe worth very little too.

So I implore all of you to make sure estate is planned out. Down to the last single thing if you can. I know it is work and not fun to deal with but it very well could make the difference if your family survives as a close one.
 
Being in a shrinking family tree, it's a different problem, there is nobody to fight over items. I told my mom she should sell the stuff that she thinks is valuable now as all we will have time to do is bring in 40 yard roll off dumpsters until the house is empty. She has the contents of about 5 or 6 family members jammed into her house. My shop has pallet loads of an uncles possessions stacked on it too. My sisters place has rooms full floor to ceiling with estate items.
 
Bruce, I like your thinking.

The only problem is that for some of us will be a 60 day auction if they have 5 rings going at the same time.

BTW, thanks for the CPAP post. I may get checked out yet.

Larry
 
Good idea.
My wife's, and my families made it easy. Wife's father made sure there was nothing left. My father left everything to mother, who quietly, and immediately, gave it all to baby brother, who drank it away.
I would like to plan, but have the dual challenges of an uncooperative spouse, and of finding an administrator.
 
Estate Planning: A will that states what everyone is inheiriting,instructions on how property and estate are to be disposed of, an auctioneer, then when a family member wants some item, they put their hand up and the auctioneer will take their bid...the highest bidder gets the item. On another note, those attics full of furniture and collectibles may not be worth very much at all. This new generation wants new furniture and utilitarian items, they are not interested in Grammas silverware or aunt Maud's dishes. I helped a friend clean out his parents place, household and shop contents, we took four large trailer loads to the auction house. I thought it had great value as antiques, but the entire lot brought less than two thousand dollars. The market has dropped off for collectibles and antiques and in many cases just "old " furniture will require a large roll on dumpster box. PLan your demise, have an executor, leave instructions! That will eliminate a lot of problems.
 
Dealt with that years ago, then did an update 2 years ago just because both kids live out of the country. Tough as it may seem, if you own farmland, I suggest that you pass that on intact to whoever is interested in farming the land. I've seen too many cases where the farmland was equally divided between the heirs so there was not enough land for anyone to make a living on. Your estate DOES NOT have to be divided equal.
 

We all have a responsibility to our kids to take care of our own junk. My wife recently eliminated maybe two cubic yards of books. Every few weeks I go through a box or drawer or shelf and eliminate stuff I know that I will never use. Thirty years ago I could say that I may need this some day. Now I can say that if I haven't used it in thirty years it goes.
 
Yup, Pop's will said: "Everything divided equally. All three of us appointed as executors. Oh yeah, that worked out real well. The lawyer made a nice tidy sum. Not saying he didn't earn it trying to sort out that mess, but a right tidy chunk of money, none-the-less.

One thing I learned is that you have everything you own in the kids names BEFORE you kick the bucket! Make darn sure you have a list somewhere of all of the personal items you want to go to the kids and grandkids.
 
Dick2, I know exactly what you mean about the farmland. The quarter of land I farm is rented from the relatives on my mom's side. 5 different people own this one quarter. This is due because there were originally 3 large shares divided equally among 3 brothers. As they and their spouses have passed on, each share got passed on to their kids. Three of them live in Texas, one in North Carolina, and the other is on the other side of South Dakota, where I live. None of them have any real interest in it other than they would prefer to see it stay in the family when they sell. No one person wants to buy out the others and as I'm the only remaining family member that farms it comes down to me. Hard to justify buying land at 2.70 corn. Best part is, two don't need the money, the other three do need money, and the one in NC is a hermit.. Can't get ahold of him for nothing.

Makes a real mess. Wish I would have tried harder to buy it before my great grandmother, who was basically the last original owner, died in 2013.

My grandpa on my dad's side says he isn't going to make the same mistake. There might be hurt feelings but at least it'll be simple and done.
 
In this day and age I often wonder if planning it out to the tee is worth the time and effort? Seems that all it takes is one or two heirs, or somebody that thinks they should be a heir, and a lawyer that works on percentage and the whole deal ends up being the pleasure of the court anyway. However if all get along then all the small things workout. I am not advocating not having a will, just saying that planning it out to the inth degree isn't going to keep the estate out of court if somebody is bent upon it being there. The Allis collecting hobby just saw this play out first hand in the Fanetti (spelling?) estate "auction" in Wisconsin.
 
BTDT. All the years while she was around my MIL said she didn't need a will because her family was so 'tight'. It would have been a disaster if she died suddenly but she wound up with cancer and had time to think about it. She had a good lawyer friend draw up an ironclad will. Still lots of squabbling but compared to other huge estates it went like clockwork. I was all for clearing out a lot of the accumulated "junk" before hand and my SIL jumped ugly with me yelling that the things were valuable 'antiques' not junk so I kept my mouth shut. Several licensed appraisers later came in and went through the estate with a fine tooth comb stating that 98% of it 'had no value' (the politically correct way of saying it was all junk). Of the things that they thought had some value and went to the antique stores on consignment, not one thing sold and was later thrown out (I never heard anything from my SIL about it). We ultimately threw out 5 - 20 yd dumpsters and 3 large Goodwill box trucks worth of stuff. Siblings had nothing to argue about then. It seems most of these "things" have no value to anyone outside of the family.
 
Do it like you mean it. We have specified a few small items to individual kids (my guns the wife's silver) but the rest gets sold at auction. If the kids want it the kids buy it knowing that they get 25% back as their share. Its a lot easier to divide a dollar into 4 quarters than a house and acreage.


My MIL has created a huge mess that only the lawyers will like. With 8 kids the land is willed to be titled to all 8. They can't even sit around the Thanksgiving day table without fighting over who get the bigger piece of turkey and now they are going to own a million dollars worth of land together? If I wasn't married into this mess it would be a great spectator sport.
 
We only have one child so things are pretty simple.....I'm a firm believer in dividing things out evenly as possible among all children..I've watched lots of families (especially farm ones) torn apart at inheritance time because one child was heavily favored over all of the others....

After HS I was the one that stayed at home and helped Dad farm and then rented it all when he retired..There wasn't room for my brother to farm so he got a town job..I made more money than he ever did so why should I inherit all of the farm land..I was the lucky one..

Upon our mothers death the will said that things were to be divided evenly...I and my brother sat down and within 2 hours had agreed on how to divide things....Our wives stayed out of it..I got more than 50% of the farm ground as he wanted other assets..He would have sold me his share of the farm ground at a reasonable price but I didn't want it as I was close to retirement and wanted no debt..
 
We have a deal like that here... farmer in his 80's was killed in a vehicle accident, leaving an estate/farmland and machinery rumored to be around 3 million to 3 or 4 spoiled rotten kids who never were allowed to grow up and have any responsibility.

Would be funny if not so sad. The sheriff is tired of being called out there.
 
The sad thing to me is,after it's all dispersed,especially if no family or friends really want most of it and it gets sold to strangers,it's as if the person never existed at all.

I'm tempted to cement some of my stuff in so they can't get rid of it.
 

Great reminder to folks. There are six of us, Mom has said if there was anything you want from the house take it. I have a few small things but she has nothing I really want. My brothers took the guns that Dad had and I'm fine with it. Mom plans to leave the house to my sister that is taking care of her in her final days... fine with that too. My sister can't keep it as there is still a small mortgage and she has no real income, so she's planning on selling it anyway. That will give her something to live on.

On the wife's side it's easy, she's the only surviving child (her brother was killed in a car accident 40 yrs. ago). When the FIL passed the MIL gave me his guns and some trinkets and some of his clothes, mostly new stuff he never wore. She kept the handguns for some reason, she's never shot one in her life. She got rid of all his other stuff but still dreading cleaning out that big house when she passes.
 
I am lucky and don't have to worry about that .I have no close family left in my family and just one daughter for children. When folks passed away there were only just sis and I and we always got along good with each other.
 
Mom pretty much had things designated as to who got what. Mom always said, money divided equally even if its just a nickel. Sold home and all divided equally among 4 children. Did not like the thoughts of yard sale or auction and after 9 grandchildren not much left anyways. Rest went in dumpsters, may not got exactually what we wanted but respected each and still on speaking terms.
 
My sister got my BIL to see about estate planning. He was wanting to leave most of the farm land to my one nephew who is farming with his dad. The estate planner told them that they should start signing over the farm now, some every year, BEFORE THEY DIE! Got told that if they didn't the legal fight would see it all gone and the one farmer from the bunch out in the cold. They have 9 kids. And yes, there are going to be some hurt feelings.

I too have seen many families torn apart over an estate that really wasn't worth that much.

The one funny one was in our extended family. One DIL's aunt was really greedy and tried being the queen bee even when her mother was still alive. Now mom in here later years only had about 600 a month in SS income. One son in law bought the house from her without it becoming know to the others on the basis that he allow his MIL to live there for life. When she passed right after the funeral the aunt announced that she was taking the house. When her BIL informed her she wasn't and why she actually tired to find a lawyer to sue. Her one brother and other sisters all thought it was hilarious! In a couple of years the wife and I will sign over our farm to one of the kids. Most likely the one up the hill who lives here on the farm. The rest they can fight over.

My MIL's estate is going to be a mess. 5 out of 6 of the kids don't really care. The other one thinks he deserves everything. All 3 homes and all the "stuff". He's going to have to lawyer up to break the will. Should be funny as the rest of the family is going to ban together for one lawyer because we don't really care about her stuff.

RIck
 
What timing JD, I just came up from the basement for lunch and check on the site. Been down there all morning, yesterday, last week trying to downsize. Wife wants to move in town small place etc.
I'll muddle thru.
 
I know - but I am not "family" and you can't tell MIL anything because the "lawyer" has her ear. He sees years of billable hours resolving the legal mess he has created.
 
Grandpa's desire to have his estate split "equally" between Dad and Aunt ended up causing my Dad to not be able to move onto the farm. He gave me the farm when he inherited it, and we had to pay my Aunt to equalize her share. That payment, along with a house needing major updates and the folks being 65+ already all factored in. Dad got to see me fix up the house and raise my kids here, and he got to spend every minute here he wanted, up until time for bed. By the time his cancer got really bad, he had cleaned out almost all of the junk at his place- by bringing it over to mine! Now I've got it all to get rid of, as the kids are not at all interested in farming. Was a shame to see the cousins lamenting the measly inheritance they got when Aunt died- about one new car each. She loved QVC and bad investments apparently, so they did not cash out like I will. Since my sister lives in DC, she will inherit and sell the folk's house- not an "equal" split with me, but a "fair" one in the end.
 
There is a potential downside when parents give property--particularly real property--while they're living. Along with the property, the recipient acquires the donor's cost basis. If the property has been held for years, that cost basis may be very low and there may a significant tax bill when the recipient sells the property.

I understand the pitfalls of heirs inheriting property together and not getting along. There is, however, a lot to be said for holding the property until death and giving the heirs a stepped-up cost basis equal to fair market value at the time of inheritance.
 
My parents just did an estate plan. It's a three-ring binder with everything laid out. Not so much the items and stuff, but the legal side of things. Irrevocable trusts, etc.
I couldn't be more grateful. Dad did it after going through probate with his mom's estate.
 
Agreed. That step up in basis can be a HUGE deal. The company I work for right how has been in existence since the 1950s. The land the company sits on only has a basis of $10,000 but has a market value of well over $800,000 (the city has grown up around us). To sell it we are looking at depreciation recapture on the buildings and capital gains taxes on the remainder. Selling it will cost us well over $200,000. We won't move because of the taxes.

I know some people will say "My kids will never sell it" but things change. Someday the federal government (or state or county) says we are taking the property through eminent domain or you can sell willingly for this price or the neighbor across the road puts in a 1,000 sow farrowing house.
 
You may want to have a tax accountant crunch the numbers for you. The capital gains taxes isn't anywhere close to 25 percent, they are much lower than the taxes on regular wages. I wouldn't bet the farm that tax rates will be significantly lower in the future regardless of who is in control.
 
Another huge downside is when the heir (daughter in this case) dies first and the sil doesn't much care for the Mother. happened in our extended family. More mess.
 
(quoted from post at 02:24:50 09/09/16) Greg's post below got me to thinking about how many things have to be dealt with when we die. One of the biggest is the material things we have accumulated over our life time. I have seen too many families fall apart dealing with this "stuff". Completely falling out over simple things. The item that causes the contention maybe worth very little too.

So I implore all of you to make sure estate is planned out. Down to the last single thing if you can. I know it is work and not fun to deal with but it very well could make the difference if your family survives as a close one.
Click to expand...

I reckon I'm just ignorant but if you write it down and file it with the county clerk isn't that binding? I'm talking about leaving it all to one person, like a child. If you have a surviving spouse that is named on all deeds, titles, etc. isn't that considered 'joint tenancy'? I guess that a legal will is something that should be drawn up before a person 'cashes in their chips'. Or, you can just count on living forever and let the devil take the hind-most! :roll:
 
(quoted from post at 01:24:50 09/09/16) Greg's post below got me to thinking about how many things have to be dealt with when we die. One of the biggest is the material things we have accumulated over our life time. I have seen too many families fall apart dealing with this "stuff". Completely falling out over simple things. The item that causes the contention maybe worth very little too.

So I implore all of you to make sure estate is planned out. Down to the last single thing if you can. I know it is work and not fun to deal with but it very well could make the difference if your family survives as a close one.
Click to expand...

Well if I plan it right I won't have an estate....just got to coordinate when the assets run out with when the old body runs out....
 
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