I have a dual wheel pickup and tandem dual 32' trailer. I have been running farm tags been getting away with a lot. I live in Texas and tried to go to Kansas. It did not work out to good. DOT said I need a CDL and DOT numbers and have a log book. What do I need to be completely legal . I have hauled a 4020 JD and a 4430 JD at the same time before in Texas and never been stopped. I got stopped with a empty trailer in Kansas. Again what do I need to do to be completely legal? And how do I do it? Thanks
- Thread starter Mtractor
- Start date
David from Kansas
Well-known Member
That is pretty amazing. I pull a 20" gooseneck around the state quite often with a 1 ton truck, state highways and interstate and have never been stopped. None of the DOT crap and no CDL. Farm tags. Maybe just lucky. Or, you found someone who doesn't like Texas.
I know nothing about farm tags, but when it comes to CDL's, here's what I do know.
If your vehicle has a GVW of less than 26,001 lbs, no CDL is required to drive it.
If the GVW is 26,001 lbs or more, you need a Class B CDL.
If you put a trailer with a GVW behind either vehicle listed above, and it has a GVW of less than 10,001 lbs, the license you are driving the tow vehicle under is good enough, whether it's a CDL or not.
If the trailer your towing with either vehicle above has a GVW of 10,001bs or more, you automatically have to have a Class A CDL, whether the tow vehicle would require any kind of CDL alone or not.
In other words, if you tow a trailer with a 10,001 or greater GVW with a Prius, you will have to have a Class A CDL (with certain restrictions due to the Prius such as no air brakes, etc.)
That covers the CDL. Now, if you drive a COMMERCIAL vehicle, with a GVW in excess of 10,000 lbs, and are involved in interstate commerce, then you will have to have a health card to be legal. Stay within your own state, and you don't have to have one.
I can't remember what the book says, but if you stay within something like 100-120 AIR miles of your home base, then you don't need to keep a log book.
Ultimately it's all a bunch of stupid rules, brought to you by your friendly neighborhood politicians who don't know their head from a hole in the ground when it comes to driving anything.....but they do it "for safety". In reality it's all about sponging more and more money off the backs of hard working people who have no choice but to pay to for the right to keep working.
Never mind that a half blind, 90 year old man, with sleep apnea, high blood pressure, color blindness, and every other malady known to man can drive an RV (with air over hydraulic brakes) with a 19,000 GVW, 240 hours straight, across the country, and back, without a health card, CDL, a log book, or anything else other than the license they use to drive their ONLY other vehicle, a Prius.....which they then tow behind the RV........ While a man who's trying to make a living has to jump through hoops and pay out the nose to do so.
If your vehicle has a GVW of less than 26,001 lbs, no CDL is required to drive it.
If the GVW is 26,001 lbs or more, you need a Class B CDL.
If you put a trailer with a GVW behind either vehicle listed above, and it has a GVW of less than 10,001 lbs, the license you are driving the tow vehicle under is good enough, whether it's a CDL or not.
If the trailer your towing with either vehicle above has a GVW of 10,001bs or more, you automatically have to have a Class A CDL, whether the tow vehicle would require any kind of CDL alone or not.
In other words, if you tow a trailer with a 10,001 or greater GVW with a Prius, you will have to have a Class A CDL (with certain restrictions due to the Prius such as no air brakes, etc.)
That covers the CDL. Now, if you drive a COMMERCIAL vehicle, with a GVW in excess of 10,000 lbs, and are involved in interstate commerce, then you will have to have a health card to be legal. Stay within your own state, and you don't have to have one.
I can't remember what the book says, but if you stay within something like 100-120 AIR miles of your home base, then you don't need to keep a log book.
Ultimately it's all a bunch of stupid rules, brought to you by your friendly neighborhood politicians who don't know their head from a hole in the ground when it comes to driving anything.....but they do it "for safety". In reality it's all about sponging more and more money off the backs of hard working people who have no choice but to pay to for the right to keep working.
Never mind that a half blind, 90 year old man, with sleep apnea, high blood pressure, color blindness, and every other malady known to man can drive an RV (with air over hydraulic brakes) with a 19,000 GVW, 240 hours straight, across the country, and back, without a health card, CDL, a log book, or anything else other than the license they use to drive their ONLY other vehicle, a Prius.....which they then tow behind the RV........ While a man who's trying to make a living has to jump through hoops and pay out the nose to do so.
Not true. There is a Farm exemption.
As defined in 49 CFR 390.5, a “covered farm vehicle” (CFV):
•Travels in the State in which the vehicle is registered or in another State,
•Is operated by an owner or operator of a farm or ranch, or by a family member or employee of the owner or operator
•Transports agricultural commodities, livestock, machinery or supplies to or from a farm or ranch
•Has a license plate or some other means specified by the State that identifies it as a farm vehicle
•Is not used in for-hire motor carrier operations (but for-hire operations do not include use of a vehicle owned and operated by a tenant farmer to transport the landlord’s portion of the crops under a crop-share agreement)
•[From § 390.39] Is not transporting hazardous materials that require placarding, and either of the following:?Has a GVW or GVWR (whichever is greater) of 26,001 or less, in which case the CFV exemptions in § 390.39 apply anywhere in the United States
?Has a GVW or GVWR (whichever is greater) of more than 26,001 pounds and travels within the State where it is registered or, if traveling out of the State where it is registered, stays within a 150 air miles of the owner or operator’s farm or ranch
That is from the US DOT.
Now I would suspect that a 32 foot tandem duly trailer behind a 1 ton dualy is over that 26,001 combined rating. Hence the need for a CDL. Trailer like that alone should have a GVW rating around 20-24K pounds or so plus the rating on the truck. Most one ton dually's are rated at around 7K pounds. The DOT rules are confusing at best on the federal level. Add in state rules and your brain will explode! Ask 2 DOT enforcement officers the same question you'll get 2 different answers.
Rick
Not true. There is a Farm exemption.
As defined in 49 CFR 390.5, a “covered farm vehicle” (CFV):
•Travels in the State in which the vehicle is registered or in another State,
•Is operated by an owner or operator of a farm or ranch, or by a family member or employee of the owner or operator
•Transports agricultural commodities, livestock, machinery or supplies to or from a farm or ranch
•Has a license plate or some other means specified by the State that identifies it as a farm vehicle
•Is not used in for-hire motor carrier operations (but for-hire operations do not include use of a vehicle owned and operated by a tenant farmer to transport the landlord’s portion of the crops under a crop-share agreement)
•[From § 390.39] Is not transporting hazardous materials that require placarding, and either of the following:?Has a GVW or GVWR (whichever is greater) of 26,001 or less, in which case the CFV exemptions in § 390.39 apply anywhere in the United States
?Has a GVW or GVWR (whichever is greater) of more than 26,001 pounds and travels within the State where it is registered or, if traveling out of the State where it is registered, stays within a 150 air miles of the owner or operator’s farm or ranch
That is from the US DOT.
Now I would suspect that a 32 foot tandem duly trailer behind a 1 ton dualy is over that 26,001 combined rating. Hence the need for a CDL. Trailer like that alone should have a GVW rating around 20-24K pounds or so plus the rating on the truck. Most one ton dually's are rated at around 7K pounds. The DOT rules are confusing at best on the federal level. Add in state rules and your brain will fry! Ask 2 DOT enforcement officers the same question you'll get 2 different answers.
Rick
I was in central Kansas 2 weeks ago and hauled back a GMC 6500 grain truck on a 40 foot triple axle gooseneck pulled by a 3/4 ton with Louisiana tags and I had no problems at all. I passed a few Kansas troopers and went through a construction area and no one looked twice. I have been stopped when hauling equipment in Iowa before but when I told them it was my equipment that was the end of it, no ticket and no one said I needed a DOT number.
Quite sure the laws are different in different states as far as the farm exemptions/rules go. In Michigan,you can get a farm endorsement which is taking two parts of the cdl test and no road test. Then you can drive within so many miles of the farm as the crow flies (seems like it's 150 miles) as long as it's farm use. Your set up would definitely require a class a cdl or farm endorsement in Michigan. Just remember they go off gvw, not what things actually weigh. My truck and trailer are just under. 3/4 ton dodge truck is 8800lb gvw, trailer is 16000 gvw = 24,800. I'm guessing your trailer has tandom duels, which are at least 2 10k axles =20k+, and your dually truck has a higher gvw than mine. Well over the 26001.
If you are licensed in Texas I would check with the Texas DOT about the limitations on your farm truck exemption and the additional requirements for interstate hauling. Being caught two states away with only farm tags is a dead giveaway you've likely exceeded the range of your farm exemption.
Stephen Newell
Well-known Member
I know my son didn't do much to get a CDL to deliver for Lowe's. I did a google search and it say's At a minimum, you can expect to:
1.Complete the Texas Commercial Driver License Application (Form CDL-1).
2.Present proof of identity, residency, and SSN.
3.Pass a vision exam.
4.Complete a self-certification of your medical status. ...
5.Pass written knowledge & road skills tests.
6.Pay the appropriate fees.
1.Complete the Texas Commercial Driver License Application (Form CDL-1).
2.Present proof of identity, residency, and SSN.
3.Pass a vision exam.
4.Complete a self-certification of your medical status. ...
5.Pass written knowledge & road skills tests.
6.Pay the appropriate fees.
Kansas4010
Well-known Member
Welcome to Kansas. Couple guys I know who were perfectly legal got pulled over. They checked everything on the trailers and trucks they could think of. When they didn't find anything they started chewing them out because "you dumb farmers can get away with everything". I suppose someone has to pay for all the road construction crews to replace what they've already torn out.
Will add a few things from my state. There are several farm plate deals one is local like 20 miles the other is no mileage limit. There is controversy on some as you do not need a cdl for farm use or trailer. Not sure on air brakes guess it a gray area. Used to be you could go out of state if the other state allowed a farm plate, Some do not allow it. Last there were many examptions on a farm plate and it gets confusing even for dot officers.
Okay, first off I'm a retired NYSP DOT cop. What you do within your home state and whats legal depends on what your STATE says. IOW- you may or may not need a CDL within the boundaries of your state. When you cross a state line you open yourself up to Federal DOT rules and regs IF you are in commerce. The very first question is, are you a Commercial Motor Vehicle? IOW- are you operating a vehicle or combination of vehicles with a GVWR (not registered weight but Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) of 10,001 lbs or more and are you engaged in "commerce"? As I understand it the definition of commerce has changed in the 8 years since I retired, so you owe it to yourself to look it up or talk to someone who has access to that info. After that it's pretty simple to get a DOT number and the rules and regs are laid out in book form and on internet sites. What I would warn you against is coming to site like this and taking anything you read as gospel. State laws vary widely and there is a huge amount of misinformation out there as far as DOT Rules and Regs go. You either need to find a professional DOT officer (not a part time county mountie that writes the occasional log book ticket) or go to a trucking industry advocacy site/organization and talk to someone there. The basic rules are pretty simple and don't change from year to year, like tie downs and equipment. The stuff that changes constantly, like Hours of Operation, you need to get some qualified information on.
It's not all that difficult to do, but try to get whatever information you get IN WRITING. That allows you to both review the info and have something in hand to defend yourself with if you are in error.
Tracy Brown
Member
A state DOT does not have to follow US DOT exactly. If a state DOT wants to adopt more strict regulations than their US counterpart, they can do that. They cannot allow something that the US DOT forbids, but they can forbid something the US DOT will allow. Found this out the hard way at least in MS.
Bill in IL
Well-known Member
Texas very well may be different but in IL Farm tags are only good for 150 air miles from the farm. I think most of Kansas would be out of that radius if you had to follow our rules.
The DOT number has been a big stink the last couple years. We are suppose to have a DOT number hauling to a local elevator cause after we sell the grain it can be exported is the reasoning.
The DOT number has been a big stink the last couple years. We are suppose to have a DOT number hauling to a local elevator cause after we sell the grain it can be exported is the reasoning.
I have a 1 ton dually, pull a 32ft triple axle, not sure what plates I have now. Kansas is a bit confusing as to what they are, but they aren't the "power" plates. I have been in Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas, Colorado, Oklahoma, Texas and Wyoming with it, and never had issues with the DOT. That being said, I do have a CDL and know that I am probably pushing their buttons at times. I would guess I should have a DOT number and run a log book, but I have issues with both since the dually is our only vehicle right now, and I don't think I need the numbers on the side of a Sunday go to Meeting vehicle, so I will continue to play dumb until told otherwise.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Right. The Federal rules are the "bare minimum" and states can tack on whatever they want as long as it's not less than the Federal requirements.
Say what you want about the laws, and I agree that they're too inconsistent and complicated and many are an ill-conceived "money grab," but they do save lives. You may feel "hassled" but the next guy could very well have a problem that could cost some lives down the road.
It's that fear of being "hassled" that keeps a lot of truckers on the straight and narrow because you know darn well if nobody was looking they'd be cutting corners wherever they could. Some still try, and some even get away with it and end up killing people, but there would be a lot more of that without the DOT.
Say what you want about the laws, and I agree that they're too inconsistent and complicated and many are an ill-conceived "money grab," but they do save lives. You may feel "hassled" but the next guy could very well have a problem that could cost some lives down the road.
It's that fear of being "hassled" that keeps a lot of truckers on the straight and narrow because you know darn well if nobody was looking they'd be cutting corners wherever they could. Some still try, and some even get away with it and end up killing people, but there would be a lot more of that without the DOT.
"What do I need to do to be completely legal?"
I think they told you: You need a CDL, DOT numbers and a log book. In addition to the CDL you will also need a medical card. TO be completely legal (only if you are audited) you also need to be part of a random selection for drug testing.
I think they told you: You need a CDL, DOT numbers and a log book. In addition to the CDL you will also need a medical card. TO be completely legal (only if you are audited) you also need to be part of a random selection for drug testing.
Saguache County? Biggest bunch of crooks I've ever encountered. Any out of state tag is subject to made up speed trap numbers, and offered a discount if you pay on the spot. I just drive around--nothing there I need. I haven't gotten a ticket there for many years, but occasionally when somebody else is driving they'll ignore my advice and go that way. Drive 5 under, with all passengers monitoring the speedometer. Always a ticket for 11 over, but willing to negotiate.
Wheres Waldo
Member
Thanks. I gotta agree. Having hauled from Iowa through Nebraska, Missouri, Minnesota and Illinois, Kansas was the ONLY place that put me and my rig under a magnifying glass. After an hour search, the only thing the 'KDOT' man could find out of order were my insurance records. Since I drove for my Company, I didn't think about that, so yes, 'my bad'. BUT He informed me that he was radioing ahead to shut me down IF I didn't have up to date insurance papers with me. Now this was the day before Thanksgiving and luckily, for me, our office girl was still there; she faxed me the info to a Staples in Topeka and I came Home with no further incident. I have to ask--do the State employees in Kansas directed to hassle out of Staters? Sure seemed so to me, especially after their 'man' said 'I got you scared, don't I?'
A bit of advice. When you apply for a DOT number you are automatically audited. Make sure your ducks are in a row. This has been the rule for a few years. I applied for a DOT number a few years back because I cross state lines with my grain truck. The officer wanted to come for the audit the last week of December. I was going to be gone so it was scheduled the second week of January. Good thing as that was the year congress exempted farmers from almost all DOT regs within 150 miles from their home. That delayed audit saved me a bunch of grief for sure with the paperwork.
ditchwitch
Well-known Member
Youll need your CDLs first,then a physical depending on your health you'll have to get it every 2 years or 1 year and maintain medical card. As far as the truck you'll need a fire extinguisher and triangle reflectors i think at least 3. DOT numbers youll get from your DMV and you should be ready to roll.
ditchwitch
Well-known Member
I would agree to that.
Oregon Tractor Jack
Member
I have a Class A CDL from Oregon. I only transport my own tractors, no for hire stuff. My truck tags are good for 30k lbs which is the maximum the truck is rated for. I contacted the Oregon Motor Carrier Division about paying weight for mile taxes and log books. I told them my story and I was issued a "hobby exemption". I carry a copy of it in my rig at all times. It is only for that truck and trailer combination. I also have to have the yearly physical and carry the health certificate in my rig. I do not have a log book even when I haul well in to Washington State. When I first started hauling this way, I would always stop and the weigh stations, only to be waved on. The last time I stopped, the weigh master told my don't bother to stop at all in Oregon. This appears to work in Oregon, but I have heard some real horror stories from folks who tow tractors down to CA. I will just stay in Oregon and Washington...
Every state is different and you only need one over zealous law officer to ruin your day...
OTJ
Every state is different and you only need one over zealous law officer to ruin your day...
OTJ
RandyB(MI)
Well-known Member
....and the "pundits" will tell us it's because no Americans want to drive trucks so we need them or our economy will fail. Just stating what they've already said pertaining to migrants and even illegal ones. Now it will get "poofed".
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
Bret4207,
The definition of commercial doesn't apply to Private carries in Indiana. Here is a copy of Indiana's DOT.
Private Carrier with Gross Weight / Combined Gross Weights up to 26,000-lbs: If you are a Private Carrier hauling your own products inside the state of Indiana without crossing state lines in a van, truck, truck and trailer or semi-tractor and trailer and the loaded weight of either the vehicle or vehicle and trailer combination is 26,000-lbs or under, you are not required to register for a Indiana DOT Number (Indiana DOT, DOT Indiana, and Indiana State DOT) or USDOT number. As a Private Carrier, you will also not be required to register for Indiana Intra-State Motor Carrier Authority at these weights, but compliance with financial responsibility is required (you are required to carry Personal Injury / Property Damage liability insurance).
My question is why can Indiana have lower standards for non commercial?
I can't find it in writing, but two Indiana DOT officers were eating lunch at subway and I asked them about landscapers getting away with going over 10K and not having DOT #s. They said about 6 years ago the legislator changed the rules for them too as long as they stay local.
Geo
Indiana DOT requirements
The definition of commercial doesn't apply to Private carries in Indiana. Here is a copy of Indiana's DOT.
Private Carrier with Gross Weight / Combined Gross Weights up to 26,000-lbs: If you are a Private Carrier hauling your own products inside the state of Indiana without crossing state lines in a van, truck, truck and trailer or semi-tractor and trailer and the loaded weight of either the vehicle or vehicle and trailer combination is 26,000-lbs or under, you are not required to register for a Indiana DOT Number (Indiana DOT, DOT Indiana, and Indiana State DOT) or USDOT number. As a Private Carrier, you will also not be required to register for Indiana Intra-State Motor Carrier Authority at these weights, but compliance with financial responsibility is required (you are required to carry Personal Injury / Property Damage liability insurance).
My question is why can Indiana have lower standards for non commercial?
I can't find it in writing, but two Indiana DOT officers were eating lunch at subway and I asked them about landscapers getting away with going over 10K and not having DOT #s. They said about 6 years ago the legislator changed the rules for them too as long as they stay local.
Geo
Indiana DOT requirements
The majority of the comments I have read here are very accurate. Will only add this: Even though the laws and regulations are of federal nature: enforcement is left to the local state officials. You will see some variation in how aggressively those laws are enforced. Some use it as a "cash cow ", others are really interested in safety.
We used to have the best highway system in the central U.S. and most truckers came thru Kansas if not too far out of route. Fuel Taxes were several cents higher here than surrounding states to pay for them. Now the powers that be are trying to entice more industry to come here and are cutting taxes every where they can to do it. Its not worked out too well to date. Highway Funds have been cut to the bone. I guess that they figure to make up some revenue by checking out of state truckers. They have the right to make sure your legal but I don't like it when they use their badge to intimidate anyone. I use US75 every day and have to wait a lot for the trucks to pass. I wouldn't mind if they all went another route, but I respect them all for what they do to make a living, and every one has a right to use the road as long as their legal.
Goose
Well-known Member
As someone said, a lot is up to local enforcement. I pulled into a port of entry in Kansas with a pickup on a trailer. The officer asked me if the pickup on the trailer was for my own use, or for sale. I said, "For sale".
He said, "Dang, I wish you'd have said it was for your own use. If it's for sale I'll have to do a bunch of paperwork and charge you a $5 fee. Let's start over. Is that pickup for your own use, or for sale?"
I said it was for my own use.
He replied, "Oh, OK. You're good to go".
He didn't notice my trailer was 6" too wide to be legal in Kansas. Or chose to ignore it.
On the flip side, a Nebraska scale officer once wrote me a ticket for towing a stock car on a trailer with a pickup with farm plates. They consider a stock car a revenue producing piece of commercial equipment, and to tow in on a public road you need commercial plates on the tow vehicle.
I mentioned it to a Nebraska State Trooper I knew a couple of weeks later. He said, "That's the law, no getting around it. I personally think a verbal warning is appropriate the first time".
He said, "Dang, I wish you'd have said it was for your own use. If it's for sale I'll have to do a bunch of paperwork and charge you a $5 fee. Let's start over. Is that pickup for your own use, or for sale?"
I said it was for my own use.
He replied, "Oh, OK. You're good to go".
He didn't notice my trailer was 6" too wide to be legal in Kansas. Or chose to ignore it.
On the flip side, a Nebraska scale officer once wrote me a ticket for towing a stock car on a trailer with a pickup with farm plates. They consider a stock car a revenue producing piece of commercial equipment, and to tow in on a public road you need commercial plates on the tow vehicle.
I mentioned it to a Nebraska State Trooper I knew a couple of weeks later. He said, "That's the law, no getting around it. I personally think a verbal warning is appropriate the first time".
George, Indiana can have lower standards precisely because the vehicles you mentioned don't fall under the definition of a commercial motor vehicle in Indiana, or so it would seem. Until a person moves into the area where Interstate Commerce is involved, the Federal gov't isn't supposed to have any say in what happens. That goes unless the state decides to do something like NY did and adopt the FMCSR en mass without having any idea what that meant or would mean for those involved. What Indiana decides to do isn't necessarily what Ohio, Texas or Vermont is going to do. States rights. Once Interstate Commerce comes into play then the Feds can step in and make the rules.
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