OT - Purchasing Property Question

Considering buying some land, about 10 acres. Been going back and forth with offers and counter offers. I made contact with the owner about selling this land via a buyer's realtor, a friend of mine who is a realtor and someone I consider knowledgeable. Presently the price is somewhat higher than my last offer and I'm ready to make a best and final offer.

I'm interested in the land, but not at all costs. This would be a CASH buy - no banks or financing.

With the above in mind - what are my expected costs above the selling price that are reasonable and expected. The realtor will give me that info too - but I want a reality check, hence this post. I want to be able to counter any push by the seller that I pay certain costs that are not customarily the buyer's responsibility.

For example, I'll have an attorney and pay that fee. I'm sure there are all manner of other fees associated with deed recordings, fees that the state, county and who knows, the federal government require.

I'm willing to pay what is reasonable and rightfully my responsibility - nothing else. I expect the seller to pay the realtor's commission given what I consider a higher price.

Question is - what is reasonable in terms of expectations for the buyer and seller cost share beyond the price of the land.

Before anyone hammers me with "this is a tractor forum" - I get it, but also most respect those who have been down this road before and are willing to share their thoughts.

Thanks,
Bill

Your seller may be reluctant to pay a realtors fee in as much as he did not have the property listed for sale through a realtor. Why didn't you approach the seller yourself and save the commission?

I don't know if the laws are much different in VA compared to AZ. But I purchased land cash deal and only went through a title. company. The funds are put in to an escrow account and there is a small fee the title company. Once the funds a confirmed the buyer is paid. You can contact a title company and they can spell it out for you. no relators

"Why didn't you approach the seller yourself and save the commission?"

Because - sometimes it's better to work a day job you're good at and pay some else to do what they are good at. I'm no realtor and don't want to be. Got enough irons in the fire.

Deal directly with the owner. Unless the realtor has the property listed, he will only complicate things and up the price.

Title insurance filing fees with the county. If you want it surveyed before purchase you cover it unless the seller would agree to share the cost.
Last stuff we bought was a cash deal. Have known the seller for years so we didn't go with the title ins. Only fee was to file the deed with the county.

Laws may vary by state so you may have needed an agent. The last 4 real estate purchases and sales that I've had were just the buyer, seller and title company. No lawyer, no real estate agent and no extra fees. The title company knew all the customary fees and how it was divided and the legal contract was signed. It was simple and quick. The longest one took 2 weeks and that was because the county clerk was behind on title searches.

I'm not really familiar with a realitor but wouldn't have involved one in this deal.

As a seller I would not be interested in any fees he causes.

A simple land transaction can be handled pretty easily by a simple lawyer or title company, $500 or so split between you should cover everything.

Paul

As said before, there will be title insurance which is optional, but worth the price if something might go wrong. Seriously consider having it surveyed. In your part of the world, the original surveys were probably done with inaccurate (by today's standards) measuring equipment. In our state there is an abstract for each property going back to when it was included in a territory before statehood. The abstract is updated each time the property changes hands. The seller is responsible for the abstract update. I am not sure, but I think the buyer was responsible for the survey fee. The current property that I own, I did not have a survey done. Some years later, the farmland owner who's property surrounds mine died and the property was sold. The survey stakes the farm buyers survey had done agreed with the property boundaries that I was told were the lines. That was a relief as I sometimes had an uneasy feeling as to whether they really were as told. There will probably be a recording fee to register the transaction with the county.
A real estate attorney in your area will be able more accurately inform you. Some fees and expenses are negotiable as to whether the buyer or seller pays the fee.

Just a few clarifications. In this one instance a buyers realtor IMHO was needed. Won't go into the details, but I feel for this property, I need the expertise of a realtor.

What I'm really interested in is knowing reasonable fees the buyer and seller typically are expected to pay beyond the selling price as per my original post.

Everything is negotiable (except taxes of course). Commissions, title insurance, everything. They'll try to tell you that whenever they charge is the "standard fee". It doesn't hurt to offer less and tell them that's your "standard payment".

Ditto on using a lawyer instead of a realtor. Your lawyer is paid to look put for your best interests. A realtor is paid to get a deal signed quickly.

have a friend who bought 340 acres with 5 different titles of which 40 acres are not apparent , have it surveyed and prove it's there .

I found buying land about the same as buying in town. The usual title search and closing fees are the same. The only difference you might need a survey to mark the boundaries. Make sure there is a an access to the property. Sometimes a person will sell part of their land and you have to cross their land to get to the one you are buying. As long as an easement is included in the contract that should be alright. Also make sure there won't be a problem acquiring utilities if you plan on making a residence there.

Your cost would be the agreed price on the land and then just the fees at your county court house. These usually are conveyance fees (So much per thousand of selling price) and deed filing fees. You should be CREDITED the prorated real estate tax from the seller. The only additional costs would be IF you wanted a survey and or title insurance.

The Seller would have the real estate commission, the prorated taxes, possible surveying cost.

The survey might be required if the property is old enough. So some times the sell pays and others the buyer pays for the survey.

Why would the seller be obligated to pay a realtor a commission if he did not have the property listed with a realtor?

Bill, as an Attorney, past Real Estate Broker, and one who has bought and sold several pieces of real estate, I can give you some "typical" closing costs and "typically" who pays what and why BUT STILL EVERYTHING IS NEGOTIABLE regardless whats "typical"

1) If you give the Seller a ton of cash, in return you want a WARRANTY DEED (seller pays),,,,,,,,,,,A Title Insurance Policy to insure quality of title you paid all that money for (seller pays),,,,,,,,,,,,a Vendors Affidavit (seller pays),,,,,,,,it would be good to have a survey to show an experts opinion of boundaries and Id ask the seller to pay for such HOWEVER that can go either way BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT if you needed a mortgage and the bank required it, then that's the buyers problem and typical cost.

2) If the seller hires a broker he typically pays the agreed to and contracted for sales commission, not the buyer who isn't under contract or obligation with the selling broker.

3) Once the seller signs seals and delivers a Warranty Deed, he has completed his obligations so why does he care if you record it soooooooooooo its typically the BUYER who pays for deed recordation and other county transfer fees or auditors transfer fees etc.

4) Typically the real estate taxes are pro rated, seller pays his share and you yours based on date of closing, but often they are just rounded like he pays 2016 and you pay 2017.

5) If you want inspections that's your cost WELL DUH

Sure everything is negotiable and these are ONLY typical guidelines and customs. Basically you give him money so he has to give you a Deed and you can want a survey but who pays is ????????? Once you pay and he delivers the Deed, its in your best interest to have it recorded and pay transfer fees.

Things vary by sates and custom these are ONLY typical guidelines so Billy Bob and Bubba don't have a calf now if you did it different.

In order to be legally enforceable contracts for the sale of real estate need to be reduced to writing to satisfy the statute of frauds.

John T BSEE, JD Attorney at Law, past Broker

"Why would the seller be obligated to pay a realtor a commission if he did not have the property listed with a realtor?"

The reason is - 3 months ago we made a best and final offer with a 60 day limit or any and all offers were off the table. In that offer, we offered
to pay for the realtor commission. The seller declined. We moved on.

Out of the blue recently, the seller reached out to the realtor to list the property and to make us an offer. IMHO at this point, and given the
offering price is still higher than our last final offer, which included realtor commission, they get to pay the commission.

Really though, I'm interested in whatever tyipcal fees, etc that come beyond the land price and realtors commission as per my original post.

If your "friend" is acting as a buyer's agent, that customarily means the BUYER pays his commission. Did you sign a buyer's agent agreement with your pal? If so, it should have specified what his commission is and who pays it.

Now, if you didn't sign an agreement with your buddy, you're fully within your rights to stiff your buddy. Just don't expect the seller to pay him a commission. And if the seller DOES agree to pay him, he is now working for the SELLER and no longer needs to put YOUR interests ahead of the seller's interest.

As for the other costs, those are all negotiable and tend to vary a bit by locality. I suggest you sign a buyer's agreement with your friend, with the expectation that he takes care of your interests in the transaction. If he's knowledgeable and honest, the 2 or 3 percent you pay him will be money well spent.

Probably you should have a title search done.That said I bought a 10 acre piece about 20 years ago from a fellow private sale he had a lawyer draw up the deed we met down at the land,signed the papers on the hood of his pickup gave him a check and I took the deed down to the county seat had it recorded no problems.

Thanks everyone for reading and offering insight to fees associated with buying this piece of property - most grateful.

It's always risky putting up such a post because inevitably you get some you should of done this or that which wasn't the point of this thread -LOL.

Now we have a decision to make.

Until then me and the boys will be rebuilding the cutterbar on the mighty Hesston 1110......

Thanks again,
Bill

I agreed to buy 20 acres from a uncle the land had been in the family for 100 years. We agreed on a 50/50 split on a survey it turned out he did not own 5 acres of the 20 :shock:

My advice have it surveyed if you have a problem settle it before you pay your money.

Closing costs are negotiable as to who pays what. Cost will depend on what state you are in. As mentioned in this topic my advice to you is get a survey. Cost will depend on where you are also. I just bought 6 acres inside the city limits of our town. I think the cost was $750.

As the buyer, you hold all the aces. Tell him you will pay him this much money and he will pay for all closing costs and survey costs. He can take it or leave it. I once walked away from buying a rental prop. because the seller would not leave the refrigerator. That's fine. I just went down the street and bought that one on my terms. Always remember your the one with the cash.

I dont know what part of Virginia you're in, but the way they like to work things north of Richmond, I'd make sure there's no easements attached to the deed.

I was once told that a land survey, while shown to be the opinion of an expert as to where the lines are, really still boils down to where the adjoining landowners agree the lines are. If the two or more sides do not agree, things get litigious or contentious.

Seems a realtor [u:540280c9ee]or[/u:540280c9ee] a lawyer could handle this deal for you, not sure you need both, but, cheap when compared to the total price.

Good luck.

"I was once told that a land survey, while shown to be the opinion of an expert as to where the lines are"

CONGRATULATIONS you are right. Long settled property law, common and statutory, and Courts "typically" settle boundary disputes. A surveyor is qualified and competent to render an "expert opinion" (but he nor we are given legal authority to decide a legal issue, that's for the Courts) which the court will consider along with a ton of other admissible evidence when settling disputes and setting a judicial boundary. There are statutory methods in some states to have a "legal survey" conducted and the survey by an expert can ripen into the boundary provided all the steps are completed. Say you have a farm and for years you and the neighbor have used maintained and honored an old fence line as a boundary then big shot from New York buys the neighbors place and hires a surveyor and tells you HEY this strip of land is mine not yours per the survey so get the H off !!!!!!!!! DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT SURVEY ALONE SETS THE LEGAL BOUNDARY??? If you do I have land Id like to sell you lol

John T Country Lawyer

Was told this to be a true Ozark true story; there is a piece of land here that has two parallel fences down a property line, about 15' apart, for a quarter mile. Story is that two farmers could not agree on the line, so they went to their respective lawyers, and wanted to SUE by golly!! First Lawyer listened, finally said yes I'll take the case, but here, take this piece of paper down to the other lawyer, will you? Farmer said yes, walked out the door, and walking down the street, he though "WHAT???" Why am I taking paper to the other lawyer? He opened the envelope, and the first lawyer had written a note "Two fat geese, you skin one and I'll skin the other!" The old boys built their fences and were happy to tell the lawyers where to go. {Sorry, John...}

Bill I am not sure others except John T answered much and it does vary by state. In my state you have to pay a deed recording fee, its not much like $20. A real estate transfer tax to the state, not to much maybe $200 on $200,000. YOU MUST LOOK INTO ANY LIENS AS ONCE YOU BUY IT YOU ARE ON THE HOOK. EXAMPLE: Unpaid taxes, unpaid mechanics liens. These are recorded at the state or county levels. As a rule, title insurance, home inspection a survey etc. are cost that fall on you and in many cases are not required. Taxes: yes they use a prorate system as a rule, example 1/2 way through the year taxes are$1000 so each of you split $500. You will have to pay your lawyer broker and he will have to pay his. Now as JT said you may offer to pay all the taxes and fees to facilitate the deal good luck,