OT--GFCI Breaker?

Jiles · Aug 31, 2016

I have my entire electrical system in my barn protected with four GFCI breakers.
One particular breaker which protects a security light, a couple of small vent fans and some lighting, trips ever so often.
Last time it tripped was about four months ago.
Each time I check, it will not reset unless I remove the LINE Voltage wire from the breaker, reset and reconnect black wire.
I know I have a problem somewhere, but considering the circumstance, does this indicate a bad GFCI Breaker?

David G · Aug 31, 2016

It could be a bad breaker, or problem in circuit.

Leakage current from water in boxes can cause the breakers to trip.

Chris(WA) · Aug 31, 2016

If any of the other breakers are the same rating, swap that breaker with the problem one and see if the problem follows the breaker or if it
stays with the circuit. Then you will know which way to go to repair the problem.

Steve@Advance · Aug 31, 2016

You've probably got water in something, probably the security light or if anything is run under ground.

Sense there are no receptacles on the circuit, couldn't you just go with a regular breaker?

Bob Bancroft · Aug 31, 2016

I'm wondering if it isn't your fans. Seems like I recall something about anything with a motor being more likely to have a little leakage.

jeffcat · Aug 31, 2016

We have those stupid things all over the place at work. I know that they are code now but you can always put a "regular" one in. Here is what happens at work. I work on commercial kitchens and EVERYTHING gets hosed. When they dry out most of the time they will work again. Now here is another thing. You cannot put two gfci units out of one socket. They will fight each other. AND as others have said you might have something wet somewhere. They HATE water. I agree and try the old swap job. Also just go buy a new one as a spare or test standard. You could also have a flukkkkkey ground somewhere. A good ground is part of the circuit.

Jiles · Aug 31, 2016

Different items on circuit doesn't seem to have an effect. Sometimes it goes out with nothing operating.
Like last night, nothing was operating but security light, noticed it was off during the night.
Hasn't rained here in two weeks.
The reason I suspect a bad breaker is---[b:4e84c756bb]As I stated above, Breaker won't reset unless I disconnect line wire, reset and reconnect wire.[/b:4e84c756bb]

FBH44 · Aug 31, 2016

Those GFCI breakers trip under two conditions; first, if there is any current flowing down the ground wire exceeding 5 or 6 milliamps. Second, if there is any imbalance between hot and neutral currents at 120 volts exceeding 5 or 6 milliamps. Either one of those two separate, different conditions.

John T · Aug 31, 2016

FYI they don't measure any actual safety equipment ground conductor current, they ONLY sense the Ungrounded Conductor (Hot) and the Grounded Conductor (Neutral) currents by having each of them pass through a Torroid Coil. If current OUT the Hot is same as that back IN being returned by the Neutral, the net is zero and no voltage is induced into the Torroid SO IT DONT TRIP. However, if theres as little as 5 milliamps difference the current must be returning in some path OTHER THEN THE NEUTRAL (like equipment ground or water or a short or your body) and a voltage is induced into the Torroid so it opens to save a life.

Hope this helps

Best wishes

John T

Russ from MN · Aug 31, 2016

Like others have said, try swapping it with another, some are more sensitive than others. The first one I ever had, in 1974, I swear it would trip if
it was cloudy out!

Bob · Aug 31, 2016

That is my understanding, as well, but it's good to hear it from you, John!

John T · Aug 31, 2016

Thanks Bob, as usual you and I agree on things, might it be said "great minds think alike" orrrrrrrrrr would it be more like "the blind leading the blind" lol Hey even a blind squirrel finds a nut now n then

Actually Google it and you will find a picture showing Hot and Neutral passing through a torroid and as you know if current one way equals current flowing the other the net is no current so no voltage gets induced into the coil, pretty simple system. Some "dudes" say they cant work with no equipment ground but that's not true. HOWEVER in the event it has an old style push to test feature and the test involves shunting current to ground if there's no grounding current path the test wont work but the GFCI can still perform its safety function.

John T

Tom in TN · Aug 31, 2016

Jiles,

I can't add anything to what the other posters have said. They are right on. I can tell you about an incident that I had at my place a while back.

I have two GFCIs on outside receptacles. They are "daisy-chained" off one another. That is, the output of GFCI#1 feeds the input of GFCI#2. Recently, GFCI#2 tripped and would not reset. By "would not reset" I mean that I physically could not push the reset button in. I discovered that GFCI#1 had also tripped. I reset #1 and then was able to reset #2.

Are you turning off the circuit to the GFCI that you are having trouble with before you remove the input wire and put it back on, or are you doing that with a live circuit? If you are turning off the circuit, then removing and replacing the wire on the "bad" GFCI, you might be doing effectively the same thing I did when I reset GFCI#1 and consequently restored power to GFCI#2, thus enabling me to reset GFCI#2.

I hope this makes at least some little bit of sense.

Tom in TN

Jiles · Aug 31, 2016

(quoted from post at 21:35:37 08/31/16) Jiles,

I can't add anything to what the other posters have said. They are right on. I can tell you about an incident that I had at my place a while back.

I have two GFCIs on outside receptacles. They are "daisy-chained" off one another. That is, the output of GFCI#1 feeds the input of GFCI#2. Recently, GFCI#2 tripped and would not reset. By "would not reset" I mean that I physically could not push the reset button in. I discovered that GFCI#1 had also tripped. I reset #1 and then was able to reset #2.

Are you turning off the circuit to the GFCI that you are having trouble with before you remove the input wire and put it back on, or are you doing that with a live circuit? If you are turning off the circuit, then removing and replacing the wire on the "bad" GFCI, you might be doing effectively the same thing I did when I reset GFCI#1 and consequently restored power to GFCI#2, thus enabling me to reset GFCI#2.

I hope this makes at least some little bit of sense.

Tom in TN

I removed hot wire from breaker with power to breaker. Of course there was no power going to the hot wire.
I reset the breaker and then turned it off before connecting the hot wire.
Like most people, I don't work on live circuits.

buickanddeere · Aug 31, 2016

(quoted from post at 16:35:37 08/31/16) Jiles,

I can't add anything to what the other posters have said. They are right on. I can tell you about an incident that I had at my place a while back.

I have two GFCIs on outside receptacles. They are "daisy-chained" off one another. That is, the output of GFCI#1 feeds the input of GFCI#2. Recently, GFCI#2 tripped and would not reset. By "would not reset" I mean that I physically could not push the reset button in. I discovered that GFCI#1 had also tripped. I reset #1 and then was able to reset #2.

Are you turning off the circuit to the GFCI that you are having trouble with before you remove the input wire and put it back on, or are you doing that with a live circuit? If you are turning off the circuit, then removing and replacing the wire on the "bad" GFCI, you might be doing effectively the same thing I did when I reset GFCI#1 and consequently restored power to GFCI#2, thus enabling me to reset GFCI#2.

I hope this makes at least some little bit of sense.

Tom in TN

Fire the goof who supplied the input of GFI #2 from the protected side of GFI #1.

buickanddeere · Aug 31, 2016

Hard wired , three wire loads such as yard lights etc should not be supplied through a GFI. Receptacles supplying vital circuits such as furnaces, well pumps, sump pumps, fridges and freezers should not be GFI supplied either .

Jiles · Aug 31, 2016

(quoted from post at 23:09:55 08/31/16)
Hard wired , three wire loads such as yard lights etc should not be supplied through a GFI. Receptacles supplying vital circuits such as furnaces, well pumps, sump pumps, fridges and freezers should not be GFI supplied either .

I understand-- "furnaces, well pumps, sump pumps, fridges and freezers should not be GFI supplied" [i:673bfdac3d]and some other critical applications.[/i:673bfdac3d] But why shouldn't a "Yard light" be on GF?

Stephen Newell · Aug 31, 2016

I would get rid of the GFCI on locations that were not considered wet.

Greg K · Aug 31, 2016

Typically anything over 8 feet above grade
is considered out of reach and further
protection is not usually required. It
shouldn't hurt anything to have it gfi
protected but may be a source of nuisance
tripping.

Jiles · Aug 31, 2016

(quoted from post at 00:44:15 09/01/16) I would get rid of the GFCI on locations that were not considered wet.

Might not be necessary, but everything in my basement shop and entire barn is GFCI protected.
This is the only problem I have had in several years.

buickanddeere · Aug 31, 2016

(quoted from post at 18:28:03 08/31/16)

(quoted from post at 23:09:55 08/31/16)
Hard wired , three wire loads such as yard lights etc should not be supplied through a GFI. Receptacles supplying vital circuits such as furnaces, well pumps, sump pumps, fridges and freezers should not be GFI supplied either .

Click to expand...

I understand-- "furnaces, well pumps, sump pumps, fridges and freezers should not be GFI supplied" [i:47298c136a]and some other critical applications.[/i:47298c136a] But why shouldn't a "Yard light" be on GF?

GFI is not required or wanted and causes nuisance tripping .Stephen and Greg are on the right track.

Bob · Aug 31, 2016

"everything in my basement shop and entire barn is GFCI protected."

That's kind of a strange statement, as GFI's on simple 120 Volt circuits are there to protect YOU, NOT "things".

Jiles · Sep 1, 2016

(quoted from post at 05:27:19 09/01/16) "everything in my basement shop and entire barn is GFCI protected."

That's kind of a strange statement, as GFI's on simple 120 Volt circuits are there to protect YOU, NOT "things".

Both shops were wired that way by the previous owner.
He was an electrician.

dr sportster · Sep 1, 2016

The code requires all those receptacles to be GFI with the exception of a single sump pump receptacle in basement and all GFI s garages excepting the ceiling receptacle for overhead door . Chris below said what to do : swap the wires from each breaker . Breaker next to it trips it is the circuit wiring, breaker holds other one is bad GFI. Simple troubleshooting.

dr sportster · Sep 1, 2016

If the yard light has an underground pipe going to it that is where your tripping is from . Small nick in wire ,water in pipe.

buickanddeere · Sep 1, 2016

(quoted from post at 07:55:46 09/01/16)

(quoted from post at 05:27:19 09/01/16) "everything in my basement shop and entire barn is GFCI protected."

That's kind of a strange statement, as GFI's on simple 120 Volt circuits are there to protect YOU, NOT "things".

Click to expand...

Both shops were wired that way by the previous owner.
He was an electrician.

There are electricians , mechanics , carpenters , lawyers, physicians , engineers, accountants , pilots and licensed drivers etc. All with varying degrees of competence .

OT--GFCI Breaker?

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