Weather events revisited

JD Seller's Sunday flooding thread had me thinking about Hurricane Agnes for the last day. I did some reading online and learned something I had not thought about before. Yesterday, I mentioned that storm's impact on agriculture in one New York county. Having gone to college down to Alfred during the 1980's put me in contact with people who were affected directly. What I never gave thought to was that Agnes wiped out quite a number of miles of railroad track and stream crossings. Railroads were already struggling due to competition from the fairly new at the time federal highway system and the fairly new St Lawrence Seaway. Hurricane Agnes delivered the death blow to the Penn Central Railroad and the Erie Lackawanna railroad as it was too costly to rebuild lines for the revenue they contributed. Penn Central's failure meant the local rail line more or less sitting unused for a number of years until the Finger Lakes Railway was founded during the mid 1990's. I know somebody's son who works for that line and who know's that if things had turned out differently the local opportunity may have never come to be. One storm that created loss for some and employment (indirectly) for others.

I've been thinking about that post too. Seems like a lot of hypocrisy if somebody with federally subsidized crop insurance is complaining about federally subsidized flood insurance. Maybe if a person truly believed that federally subsidized insurance was wrong,they'd stand the risk themselves,or sell the farm and buy one where the weather and the markets are always perfect.

First off Randy READ my post and replies CLOSER!!!!! I am all for getting rid of Federal subsidized insurance for anyone for anything. That includes crop insurance and flood insurance. By the way I have not carried crop insurance in over 15 years. I have not taken FSA payments in over 25 years. I should amend that I have had some conservation projects cost shared but those were 20 years ago or more.

People jumped to the conclusion that I was hammering the people in LA. I was really POed about some home owners in Clayton county IA. They built homes in a rural area and in a valley that was know to flood regularly. Private subdivision type of setup. They have been flooded three times in 15 years. The first two times they got Federal Help to fix/repair their homes. This time they are playing the system to get called a community and then not only have the Federal government/taxpayers pay to fix their homes but to also build a levy to keep their homes from flooding.

As for the flooding in LA and other places. If it is a UNUSUAL weather event that causes REGIONAL damage then Federal help is warranted and correct. The current flooding in La would fit that description. If it is a small area like this one in Iowa I think it should be handled at the state and county level. Privately is even better.

The ones I think should NOT be covered are the ones that have weather related damage multiple times over relatively short periods of time. Example would be 3 times in 15 years. Another example would be homes built right on the coastline. They are prime targets for hurricane damage. You build along rivers, lakes, oceans or streams an are only a few feet elevated then your asking for trouble. Now if you want to build there and pay for anything that happens out of YOUR own pocket then build on.

It comes down to unreasonable risk and I think we can all think of examples of that. I knew that is where you are coming from. I also understand Randy in that maybe we all should privately cover our risks. Allegany County here in New York is not normally prone to coastal based storms and certainly not ones that suddenly stall out for several hours overhead after recharging out to sea. I would say that most farmers down in Allegany County were using acceptable soil management practices for the time back in 1972. It probably did not help matters that the hurricane hit in June at the time when corn would be young (last frost there is usually late May)and first cutting hay had just come off. The area at the time was known for hard scrabble farming due in part to its short growing season and fairly shallow topsoil. Sure, some farms would have failed as small farms struggled going towards today but Hurricane Agnes sped up the time table by a couple of decades for southern Allegany County.

That's fine and I did read your original post. All I'm saying is,if a person,whether it's you,me or whoever,shouldn't participate in one form of subsidized insurance if you're opposed to another.
Farming is a huge risk with the weather just like living in a flood plain. Either you're for subisidies for high risk situations and participate,or you're against them and don't,that's all I'm saying. Don't say "Well,I'm against it,but I participate because I can.".

And before anybody starts in about a tax credit on health insurance premiums,I'm not the one who's criticizing the way the feds handle insurance.

"The ones I think should NOT be covered are the ones that have weather related damage multiple times over relatively short periods of time. Example would be 3 times in 15 years. Another example would be homes built right on the coastline. They are prime targets for hurricane damage. You build along rivers, lakes, oceans or streams an are only a few feet elevated then your asking for trouble. Now if you want to build there and pay for anything that happens out of YOUR own pocket then build on."

I still remember being 10 years old in 1966 and several hurricanes had hit the gulf coast states. I asked my daddy why so many people got hit. He told me that years ago not many people would build/live right up against the gulf. The gulf area got more and more populated very close to the waters. I agree with you. If someone wants to put a house/condos within 1 mile of the coastline of any state....they should bare the brunt of all the cost when the disaster struck. Same with New Orleans, idiots building houses below sea level. How stupid is that. Nothing can withstand the full power of mother nature...nothing. It reminds me of the titanic being unsinkable...silly people. :shock:

I do not know about crop insurance where you live but around here its almost impossible to get insurance on flood ground.

I don't want to jump in between JD and rrlund here in their debate but, I think government subsidized crop insurance for farmers is more about cheap food for consumers , then about helping farmers. Things that the government funds are , in one way or another all about votes.

What if you have three claims on your crop insurance in 15 years?

That's exactly what it's about. Economy of scale vs smaller diversified operations. With several different crops and livestock products to sell and spread the risk,there was no need for crop insurance. If cheap food is official policy,then the gubmint will have to pay for the risk. Same thing with housing. Go ahead and tell people who paid too much for their homes that the government will bail you out on your mortgage,but tell others who might have lived in their homes possibly for decades,move out,abandon your home,you're on your own.

I don't see this as a battle between me and JD by the way. I was aiming at some of the talk radio crowd who responded to his post too. I saw hypocrisy and I called it out.