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Am I hard hearted????

J

JD Seller

Well-known Member
I am finding it pretty hard to feel much sympathy for many of the people that get flooded. I can see if it is the first time and you just got slammed with some weather event. Being flooded for the second/third/many times is just pure foolishness to me. Living where your in a flood plain is just foolish to me. There should NOT be insurance available if your in a flood plain period!!!! No government bailout either.

Just read about the Dukes of Hazard fellow getting flooded in LA. He just was flooded in March of this year and is again flooded. Do not feel too sorry for him.

People do not have to build next to water for the ability to use that water these days. They are not carrying it in buckets to use or dumping their human waste in the river for disposal. So living on higher ground is not the issue it once was.
 
After I seen how people acted after Katrina I have no sympathy for them. Worse yet is my tax dollars paying for there loss as they loot and steal.
 
I think in that part of LA there is no high ground, and that is their home, they have always lived there. They could put their houses up on stilts like some of the other coastal area, but that would cost money that they don't have. Possibly a resettlement program is the solution, it was successful in N MN in the 30's. With climate change and rising sea levels it's only going to get worse, they are between a rock and a hard spot. We are lucky in N MN, we needed rain and we got .6!
 

Yes. No flood for 150 years? 7 or 8 generations of no flood, then you think these folks are stupid?

How very Republicann of you.... :D
 
I live in Louisiana ,and wish that people would not watch tv, to judge but drive down and look around for themselves, yes there are people that need to be shot so come help don't criticize from afar and act like everyone here is stupid for being here.
 
I never get on here and criticize northern people when snow are blinding cold gets to them , it hasn't been long since there was flooding in Missouri and I prayed for these people , I don't think you are hard hearted I think you have never lost . There are good people and bad people in every state in the union and the tv picks the ones that make rating not the people that work or pray . Mr. JD Seller I am not mad just saddened that the tv that is biased has so much affect on you.
 
I feel the same way about the ones who live and build in hurricane prone areas. As for New Orleans during Katrina they should have just repaired the leeves, stocked the water with redfish and speckled trout and made everyone move out. Even the Native Americans had sense enough not to build below sea level.
 
Part of it is building to deal with it, if possible, but no it makes no sense, however many populated areas have been built in less than ideal places, that flood. Its easy to form that opinion, using the cut and dry facts that low lying areas flood, and that structures have been built in those areas that will not tolerate flooding. It's hard to figure why in the first place, but its been done since way back when. Mother nature will always win. The Jersey shore is one place that comes to mind, having lived there in a house on blocks, across the street is the Atlantic Ocean, which at times can be very destructive if you are in its path. I've been evacuated several times in the winter when I was there. My solution was to move. Downed power lines, horizontal falling snow, flooding, finding a place until its over, no fun at all.

To build or rebuild on the Jersey shore requires a lot more than typical construction per the present codes. The money people invest in these nice homes, just to have a view of the beach and ocean is staggering. I lived in a 4 room shack, that would have floated away in a flood. It's still there today though. Amazing. I'll take the eastern woodland environment, on a well drained hill over a low land area. We also seem to have abundant water supplies in our aquifer. Water be it flooding or otherwise will always be a source of problems for any society.

We saw that its not only low lying areas, dump 10" of rain on us here and you'll get incredible damage, like we saw in '11 with Irene, that was no joke, and likely more than a 100 year event. Lots of structures considered to be built in safe places were destroyed, bridges, culverts too. Our town rebuilt some of them, if this repeats, what they built will not hold up, for whatever reason the cycle continues. They did not build anything more substantial from what I saw, so maybe its based on 100 year events.
 
I would say that JD's disdain is appropriate for coastal areas such as Galveston, TX and the Outer Banks in NC. These two areas see repeat flooding on a ten year basis and most homes affected are vacation homes for well to do people. Most people locally that live on the river do so because the homes are cheaper than building a home and the people do not have high paying jobs nor does the area offer high paying jobs. So a lot of those folks are stuck and the flooding might be a once in a life time event when it does happen. Penn Yan, NY had serious flooding last summer because an intense rain cell set up right west of town and the water ran from the outside of the cell towards the center where the Keuka Lake outlet is. A "perfect storm" that created flooding that otherwise would never happen. Kind of similar to Hurricane Agnes back in 1972 that created flooding along the creeks and streams of the Southern Tier. Not enough was known about meteorology decades ago to plan for 100 year events or 250 year events.
 
Living in those areas is a way of life, just like this farming gamble is a way of life for us. I have been in the new Orleans area three times and I too wonder why some of those houses were built in the swamps, but each to his own. They probably think we are fools for living where the snow blows and the temp goes below zero. I don't think they should continue to look for disaster handouts though after the second and third flood in a short span of years.

On the flood issue, our climate has changed to where we have more extreme precipitation events. Maybe those low areas in Louisiana flooded only once in a generation in the past, I don't know. Why did I just renew the lease on a flat, wet 60 acre field I farm that has shown a loss for the past two years due to flooding? Because "next year will be better".
 
saw on news in ne iowa got flooded this week.hell of a mess.they interviewed one guy(idiot)said he"s been flooded out 24 times in 27 years.
 
Do you really want a insiders point of view?

No where on earth is safe. We have tornadoes; floods; earthquakes; roofs falling in from snow load.
Heck I seem to remember Iowa flooding a few years back. Maybe everyone should move out of Iowa.

As for the most recent flood; many areas flooded that have never seen water before.
I wonder what your yard would look like after a record (never happened before) 30+ inches of rain in 36 hours.

So I feel you can live where you want and I can live where I want.

With that said I do not believe in federal or even state aid.
Stop subsidizing flood insurance; get rid of Fema; and fend for yourself when you flood in La. or the locust take over your Iowa farm. We can stop subsidizing row crop insurance to farmers and buying milk to make government cheese while we are at it.
In fact if you go snow skiing in Colorado and get caught in a avalanche; be ready to pay the rescue bill to get yourself off the mountain.

Odd part is they took a survey on a New Orleans radio station last week. The vast majority said if you do not have flood insurance tough luck. Funny how the vote changes when the shoe is on the other foot as New Orleans did not flood this time but you would have gotten a very different response from these same people after Katrina.

Some will suggest that we do nothing for these people that flooded and did not have flood insurance because the government told them they were not in a flood prone area.
Then others ask what do we do with them. They have a mortgage; most likely a second mortgage to pay for the pool or new kitchen cabinets; and now will need a 3rd mortgage that they most likely can not get because they do not have enough equity in the home to cover this new loan. So do we let whole neighborhoods go bankrupt because we both know; no one is going to pay on a house loan when they can not live in the house.

So to suggest that we should not live where it floods is ludicrous. In fact I would say that south La was well populated before Iowa saw its first white man. The difference in then and now was government aid. 1965 and I believe 1969 saw some bad hurricanes in this area. Betsy and Camille. People did for themselves and came back just like their ancestors had done for decades. Today if the electricity goes off for more than 24 hours people are looking for food stamps to replace all the food in their refrigerator and or freezer.


Sorry if I got long winded but I can debate this subject for hours.
We could talk about how the government has ruined our coast threw river levees and many other things that cause us to flood in the first place.
 
I can only speak to Indiana's rivers. In the 1800's building on a river was the norm and necessary. Transportation and commerce. Villages become towns and cities. No one has the money to move cities and towns.Folks have roots and heritage in these places. Flood insurance is expensive and often mandatory. It's a big racket and people pay to stay.
 

Ditto what John in La stated.

My house is nowhere near a lake,creek or river but in the Spring of '15 got flood water in it from a night when I recieved 10 inches of rain in a very short period of time.

I have no sympathy for someone that builds their home close to body of water such as lake,creek or river
 
Well said John , I haven't asked anyone for help , haven't heard you asking either . Bartley "Bass" lost his pickup in Texas flooding a few weeks back and he didn't ask for a hand out , just get up dust yourself off and go again . I even think "old" had some flood problems recently and I never heard him say much . I and my family pray for a nation and the people in it , to have the strength to keep getting up when we hit that stumbling block.
 
I was taught to expect the worst and build it to withstand whatever Mother Nature and Father Time can throw at it.


Does that make it indestructible? NO! But it lets you sleep better at night. Nothing wrong with putting in an extra row of block, some ring shank nails, tie down straps, a few screws, a little extra grading or dirt work and over engineering your buildings.

We have standards for 100 and 50 year events like snow and rain. Just how far does weather data go back?

I feel sorry for anyone that occurs a loss, but my heart really hurts for those that were doing the right thing.
 
My town is flooded quite often it was built there because of a river crossing also when the railroad road built they liked level easy spots. Check out dubuque iowa sometime there making changes but I doubt that they will move . Some of our flooding came when there were farm's that were all tilled up not leaving much to hold the water back. There is a town next to me that there flooding has gotten worse because of a large city up river putting in more subdivision and with that more paved area less room for water to drain away slowly. There is a new form of pavement that will let water seep through rather than let it run off. If you look at new Orleans what has happened up river might give more insight in to what's happening every effort has been given to drain swamps and build levees to get the water pushed downstream. I wonder how much water say an acre of Swamp would hold back and slowly drain away.
 
As said earlier, every place you think is good to set up home on this planet has some type of adverse nature to deal with. Pick your poison.

As far as handouts, I only help those who help themselves first, these days, for the most part. Like someone broke down on the side of the road in the desert. If they're just sitting there in the car, I'll go ahead and assume they've got help on the way. If they're under the hood, and trying to do something about it, I'll be more likely to pull over and give a hand.
 
John, adding to your list, wild fires, California's air pollution, Chicago's shooting, druggies marking meth and the crime that goes with it. You're right, pick your poison.
 
Yes I feel for people who loose their homes to flooding, but the third time I am done. 1993 Chesterfield MO flooded and took out a lot of business, so what does the government do? They encourage and help with loans so now there is five times as many business and homes as before.
In Hannibal they had a buyout that stopped the constant flooding of the same houses over and over.(Bear Creek, not the Mississippi)
Flooding caused by a hurricane hundred miles from the shore doesn't count as a flood plain.
 
(quoted from post at 08:43:12 08/28/16) I am finding it pretty hard to feel much sympathy for many of the people that get flooded. I can see if it is the first time and you just got slammed with some weather event. Being flooded for the second/third/many times is just pure foolishness to me. Living where your in a flood plain is just foolish to me. There should NOT be insurance available if your in a flood plain period!!!! No government bailout either.

Just read about the Dukes of Hazard fellow getting flooded in LA. He just was flooded in March of this year and is again flooded. Do not feel too sorry for him.

People do not have to build next to water for the ability to use that water these days. They are not carrying it in buckets to use or dumping their human waste in the river for disposal. So living on higher ground is not the issue it once was.
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tend to agree with you on this. I live in coastal SC and my home is inland about 15 miles or more. That's not to say we do not have marsh land/swamp nearby. This area has been built out in the last 60 years or so. In other words the flood prone areas have been common knowledge to the locals for many years and decades. Still contractor's build on or people buy in these areas because of the views and so on Then they get the historical high tide along with torrential rains as do happen from time to time and flood as has happened in the past. These are government permitted areas that should never have been built on in the first place. Who's at fault the contractor trying to make a buck, the board that decides its ok to build in a flood prone area or the person that wants the view and says they are willing to take the risk until they get flooded then want either insurance or fema to bail them out. I have a close friend whose Daughter bought a home in one of these areas several years ago. Backed up to the salt marsh, was plain to see the back yard would flood at the least bit of extreme high tide. Several of use tried to change her mind but she bought it anyway. First issue was the added flood insurance above and beyond the regular for the mortgage. Started out an around five to six hundred a year maybe a little more to a final cost last I heard of over $3000.00 a year on top of her home owners policy. So nearly $4000.00 dollars a year. Then it happened days and days of heavy and along comes an extreme high tide and floods part of the home , she has since put the house on the market and has moved to a different place. She also lost her car and both her sons car's as they left then parked in front of the house as the flood water came up in the back yard and house. They could have gone less than a quarter mile an parked on high ground but she said I just didn't think about it she said. This a well educated young lady in her early forty's and I do not feel sorry for her and the problem she brought on her self. I believe what JD Seller was saying is there is a limit to how many times these people should be saved. Some of this that goes on and people expect everyone to just jump at the chance to spend their money to come save them yet again. Kind of like kicking a great big sleeping dog, you may get away with it a time or two but sooner or later your going to gat bitten and what am I supposed to feel sorry for you? Not going to happen. If my spelling or poor use of the English language bothers you so be it, keep it to your self as I do not care any more.
 
Where I live I pick this spot for my house for a reason. in 1986 we had what many called the 100 year flood and the old timers had never sen it like this before. Then in 2015 we had not one but two floods and both whereas bad or worse then in 1986.

But in 2003 we had a tornado do a lot of damage and it almost hit my parents house. So it does not really matter where you live if mother nature wants to mess with you she is going to do it no matter where you live.

There in no way to not be some place where something will not harm you be it flood or tornado or earth quack or what ever it is going to happen
 
One guy I admired in the aftermath of Katrina. While everyone else was sitting on their butts whining because somebody didn't do something for them, a TV reporter asked one fellow what he was going to do next.

He pointed and replied, "See that road? I'm going to start walking and see where it goes".
 
Since I have lived at my present location, there have been 3 floods where the water got knee deep between the house and the garage. The last two were 3 days apart. First time the driveway only went about 200 ft.I had it all back when the second one hit 2 days later and it went to the Chesapeake bay. The previous flood was 1915. Since then the state in their infinite wisdom have turned the road in front of my house into a dam 4 to 5 ft. higher than it was. No one is allowed to clean out the streams because fish are more important than people. So now when the rain comes, all that water goes down main street instead of crossing the road and going about 1/2 mile across the field and dumping in the river. People were canoeing on main street. Now the state has plans to replace the 12" culverts under the driveways on the east side of the road. Not a chance they will put in a culvert that will carry a wave of water coming across the car dealer's lot 10" deep. What's the chance the "Engineers" will get it right this time. ZERO. I can't afford flood insurance or a house on the side of a mountain so I'll have to put up with it for the rest of my life which shouldn't be to long.
 
I was told, so hear say only, it's required to have flood insurance if you have an FDIC mortgage. When we had a 100 year flood in 2008 in Terre Haute, the flood insurance, government insurance, offered to buy out some flood victims and some people jumped at the chance.

My younger sister ended up with the house and barn my dad built in N Indiana. An arsonist torched the barn. Farm Bureau insurance made my sister an offer not to rebuild the barn that was in a flood plane because the cost to elevation the ground would cost more than the barn.

If my parents house burns to the ground, same thing. Good change area planning or the DNR would step and prevent the reconstruction. It was built in the 60's. Survived many floods, but came close to loosing it a few times. Never any damage to house or barn.

So as much as people hate loosing their freedoms to the Federalizes, area planning (zoning) prevents people form building a flood plane and in some cases rebuilding in a flood plane.
geo
 
Developers have no qualms about building in a flood zone in AZ; they build and leave as soon as they are built out. Nobody was "minding the store" in AZ so there are lots of houses in flood plains where there is no drainage system. After a couple flash floods, the media has all the likely places to flood mapped out so as soon as there is some rain the TV crews know right where to go. Then they grab somebody who got water or mud in their house; the people get real emotional and cry on TV and say the they need help from somebody - and the same thing will happen again the next time they get a good rain.

We passed up looking at houses that clearly showed on the flood plain map that the area is a flood zone when there is heavy rain.
 
I guess it would all depend on what kind of help you expected when you got hit with whatever type disasters occur in your area. If someone wants to insure them they take the risk.
 
I mentioned Hurricane Agnes back in 1972 in my previous post but I would like to expand on what I said. My understanding is from the people who lived in the most adversely affected areas then that the sheet erosion was pretty extensive in spots. Agriculture in Southern Allegany County was never the same afterwards. I guess a few sold what cattle and equipment they had and then walked away as the land was pretty much ruined for farming. For others it was the beginning of the end as they could never recover financially from the losses sustained in 1972. It also hastened the demise of agribusinesses as many farmers were reduced to the most essential expenditures due to reduced income. It puts things into perspective when we have a tough weather year in that at least one weather system did not end our business. I would guess quite a bit of that eroded Allegany County soil is at the bottom of the Genessee River gorge in Letchworth State Park.
 
Keep in mind you would be talking about moving some pretty big stuff... Ever wonder why Deere never moved the location of the combine plant in Moline? Something's been there since 1847, and it's been sandbagged how many times? Cities like Prairie DU Chien Wi, Grand Forks ND, not etc come to mind too.
 
I live in a Valley that has areas that are in a 100 year flood plan and you can't get flood insurance. I have seen areas flooded where only the tops of fence posts were showing. What gets to me is when people build in this area right on the valley floor and then scream to get Government (our) money to clean up from their own ignorance.
Dave
 
In general on this yes you are cold hearted but I mostly agree with you. :)

Events like 20 inches of rain as Baton Rouge had I feel for folks, that is not a normal or able to plan for event.

We've had wet periods that rain for weeks and then tops off with a 5-6 inch rain in an hour, again that just is t a normal thing you engineer for.

I feel for those deals.

If you built in a flood plain and this is the third time your house is under water half way up the first floor, well what were you thinking.

Perhaps I get more mad at the city planners that allow developers to build in such areas and or they change water flows/ diving systems and create a bad deal for some existing places.

So there is a lot of room in my mind for felling bad for folks.

But as you mean it, I presume, I agree with you, build in a flood prone area and well what did you expect? Even if it was approved by the city and all that, one needs to know a little about life and evaluate what you are buying/ renting and where it is located, you need a little personal responsibility in your choices.

Paul
 
I think you'd better watch that entire episode of This Week in Louisiana Agriculture that I linked to on John in La's post about "That time of year" before you make too many more enemies.
 
I'm thinking of Lou from WI's similar post a few months ago. He said about the same thing and got totally roasted by the board for it.
I don't care where you choose to live.
I choose to live in MN despite the bitter cold though I wouldn't compare that to living on a flood plain as stated below.
And Russ, you're showing your kookiness again. You need to lay off that high test cool aid.
 
(quoted from post at 11:53:02 08/28/16) In general on this yes you are cold hearted but I mostly agree with you. :)

Events like 20 inches of rain as Baton Rouge had I feel for folks, that is not a normal or able to plan for event.

We've had wet periods that rain for weeks and then tops off with a 5-6 inch rain in an hour, again that just is t a normal thing you engineer for.

I feel for those deals.

If you built in a flood plain and this is the third time your house is under water half way up the first floor, well what were you thinking.

Perhaps I get more mad at the city planners that allow developers to build in such areas and or they change water flows/ diving systems and create a bad deal for some existing places.

So there is a lot of room in my mind for felling bad for folks.

But as you mean it, I presume, I agree with you, build in a flood prone area and well what did you expect? Even if it was approved by the city and all that, one needs to know a little about life and evaluate what you are buying/ renting and where it is located, you need a little personal responsibility in your choices.

Paul
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Every time a local official tells someone that they can't do something with their land, most of you guys will side with the landowner, regardless of the issue. :roll:
 

People tend to buy or build first and think about things like floods, fire, earth quakes and blizzards later. Living in flood prone area...you take your chances, don't come crying to me later. Sorry if it's a once in 150 year flood, if the water has been that high before it can get that high again. No one ever comes and takes pictures of our area after an ice storm or 4 feet of snow. Not a soul. No FEMA, no TV babes taking shots of some schmucks barn about to cave in. It might make the local news if 3 barns collapse and kill 1500 cattle, but not the national news. But if a CITY is affected, then the gloves come off because CITY PEOPLE are more important than hicks. I haven't heard or seen a single mention of FEMA in La. All I see and hear about is local people and police/EMS doing the rescuing. The guy that supposed to be taking care of this stuff was still golfing last I knew. The news doesn't care because they don't want to bad mouth that guy or the gal that wants his job, who I also haven't seen down there handing out clothes or water.

Anyway, I don't feel real sorry for peoples decision to build in a disaster prone area. That doesn't mean I won't contribute to relief funds or pray for them or even go and help if it's close enough and possible for me to do. But what happens to them is that they gambled and lost. It happens to most people over the course of their lives. Wondering if not feeling sorry for someone elses poor decisions makes you hard hearted is wasted effort. As my mom used to say, "There are children starving in Africa." You can't carry the weight of the whole world on your shoulders.
 
John If you read what I posted carefully you will see I stated that people harmed/damaged by unusual weather events should be helped. Your 30 inches of rain in a day and half is an unusual event. It also is more of a state wide event. This will require national help to keep the entire area from longer term economic harm.

What really brought about my post was actually some local flooding. We had 8-10 inches of rain fall in one night in the Decorah, Iowa area earlier this week. This was on top of several earlier 2-3 inch rains that kept the water table high. So it took little more rain to flood the Turkey river. The Turkey river has flooded hard 3 times in the last 15 years. I know personally of four homes that were flooded for the third time this week. The oldest of these homes is 20 years old. These homes were built right in a flood prone valley along the Turkey river. A family member rented this ground for years to farm. He would get flooded out one year out of five on average. They built homes on that same ground. There should never been homes built there to start with.

As for LA. I was down close to there right after Katrina and helped clean up around the city of " Bay of St. Louis" MS. The bridge that Rt. 90 goes across the bay was wiped out. The beach front houses were totally gone. I will have to find the pictures. It is hard to imagine the damage and the scope of the total destruction. The thing that struck me is I was uncomfortable being in that area. I just knew it would not be a safe place to be during even a mild hurricane. So why in the world did people just ignore the dangers and build there???? I KNOW "It is PRETTY" , the "VIEW" is to die for. Well a lot of people did die for their view.

So John I bet that you personally know of many fancy/high priced homes that are build in totally dangerous places, around you,just because the view is great. Those are the ones I am talking about. I bet that the Duke's of Hazard guys home is not a shack but he built it in a place that floods without just a 30 inch rain even. I do not believe you have had two of those this year???

I feel for the small owner/operator businesses in that areas. Many of them may not survive. This could be hardware store, appliance store and or a farmer. I have zero issue with private help. I think we started a lot of this with the Federal government started handing out disaster moneys. Now many feel that they should get help form the government regardless of what they have done to help cause their harm. This also hurts the private charities many feel they are paying enough taxes so the Government can handle the problems.

I am all for getting rid of all government involvement with farmers. Make crop insurance be privately funded just like most other insurance. Then the risk verses return would drive plantings and other stuff. In other words private enterprise would determine what and were things happen.
 
Ya I think the people living on the west coast should have known better than living next to all that combustible material. come on this is a some what free country we don't need some one telling or approving where we live. But if you want to live in a flood prone area then you should be responsible after a flood. Randy
 
Spook I did not say not to let them build there but just do not make everyone else pay when their building/home/crop is damaged by flooding or whatever happens.
 
Disasters happen and being in the wrong place at the wrong time can be devastating. Remember 2011 when the Missouri flooded. Read the article. 114 year flood that was big enough to cover over 95,000 sq. miles a foot deep. That is equal to all of NE. and the western 3rd of IA according to the article. Guess we all should live on mountain tops, oh wait, they slide down hill to.
2011 Missouri River flood.
 
I'm thinking that "flood plain" refers to land that is historically affected by rising water from rivers and streams. In those cases I am not particularly sympathetic to those who build there.

What we are dealing with here in Louisiana is "falling water"---abnormal deluges of rainfall which of course produce rising water in any low spot. That can happen anywhere there is a topographical depression. Even in hilly areas far from any stream, there are low places at the bottoms of those hills. Pour 15 inches of rain there in just a few hours and you will have homes flooded that no ever considered would do so.

Much of south Louisiana is as a table-top, though not necessarily in a known flood plain. Again, drop 15, 20, 30 inches of rain on that tabletop overnight, the water can't flow away quick enough to avoid flooding. People living in even the slightest depression can become trapped in just a few minutes. Many of them awakened in the night to find water up their beds. By this time their vehicles are under water and the roads as well. They are trapped, and they may remain trapped for weeks because the water has no natural drain.

These huge rains are becoming more common here. I got 15 inches in two rains just last week. These were just pop-up summer storms, not part of a front or organized system---in othewords, not predicted. I remember one such storm in another city in north Louisiana about 30 years ago: 18 inches fell from midnight to 6 a.m. You bet there was flooding by daybreak. I never felt the people who got flooded then could be blamed for poor foresight.
 
kub6040 I have had sever damage done by weather events. In one bad winter blizzard I lost about half of my fat hogs. That was over 500 of them. I think about it every time I drive by where we buried them when the ground thawed. I got to look at that pile of dead pigs for over two months because it was so cold that there was zero way to bury them. Plus they were frozen solid anyway.

Here is what that changed for me. I have made darn sure to NEVER have animals, hogs or cattle, in unprotected lots during the winter months since that lost.

So I think people should do some things different than just live/stay in the same place after a predictable weather loss. IF your living in an area that is known to flood then your taking the gamble so it should be just that, YOUR gamble.

If you stay then change things there. Maybe this is making things to where there is less damage if it floods. an example would be some homes built along the Mississippi River north of here are on an island that floods just about annually. Just deeper some years than others. The homes are two story with the electric service and all in the second floor only. The downstairs is usually a garage or storage area. They usually just clear out the down stairs an open the doors on each end and let the water flow through. Then as the river falls they wash the mud off the walls as its is falling. They have a plan that makes where they live work without lots of damage from a semi regular weather event. So try to do some thing like that if your going to stay put.
 
JD, I meant no disrespect I agree to each his own . I don't think this abnormal flood was something that anyone could prepare for , I live far enough north I don't normally have much damage from wind and water . I also wasn't affected by the rain this time but have several friends and acquaintances that have had severe damage. I don't have money to give but have loaned a truck and trailer , a four wheeler and generator along with some power tools of which I don't have to have everyday. Pray for these people they need it.
 
Are you hardhearted? Yes. Until ALL of the facts are in, you are in no position to judge where other folks live. Just the same, a natural disaster can occur at any time and in any place. Lightning strikes, mudslides, flash flooding, tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, and the list goes on. We all choose where to live based on many circumstances. A major factor is where you were born and brought up. Many folks like to stay close to friends and family - even if there is danger of natural disaster. If one were to apply your logic to the entire US and we were only allowed to live in some totally safe place, I doubt that such a place could be found.
The Midwest is prone to tornadoes. Not safe there.
The Southeastern states are prone to hurricanes. Not safe there.
The West coast is prone to earthquakes and mudslides. Not safe there.
Should I keep going?
It seems that most of the country is prone to some sort of natural disaster.
So, where does one choose to build and live?
 
kub6040 I did not take it as disrespect or anything. I left my original post kid of vague on what I was talking about. I was away this afternoon as well and could not reply sooner.

The majority of the damage in La this time is the kind that would NOT be predictable/usual. This is a regional weather event causing flooding over a wide area. In addition the weather event is not "normal". The flooding I have read about is out of the traditional hurricane damage areas.

The lower LA, MS, and TX coastlines are in Hurricane alley. So living in an area that is repeatedly damaged by hurricanes would fall into the type of thing I am talking about.

The more local flooding here in Iowa really triggering my post. I did mention the actor's flood damage just because it popped up on the internet about the time I posted. The damage here in Iowa is small potatoes compared to the LA damage.

There is the question? Where do we draw the line on Government assistance for these type of events???? I think it should only be done when the area effected is more regional in scope. LA does not have the resources to deal with this totally by itself . The damage around here can easily be handled by the counties and state involved no outside assistance is needed.
 
Well JD, you don't like what I do for a living. You don't like people in distress from natural disasters. You need to get ready...the hurricane season is just getting started and tornadoes can hit anywhere! There will be lots people you can dislike! Then you can think globally...there are third world countries where lots of people are hungry and sick! You can disapprove of where they live & what they don't have to eat. You can disapprove of doctors, nurses and missionaries going to help them. You need to expand your thinking since you obviously believe you were the one chosen to stand in judgment. Good luck with that.
Ron
 
Ron read my response to this original post. I left it kid of vague without realizing it. I was NOT talking about the large flooding issue in LA directly. That is a regional weather event that was/is far from ordinary. I think LA got like 30 inches of rain in 36 hours or something.

I was talking about a more local flooding event. It only impacted the area around one river, the Turkey River here in Northeast Iowa. It has flooded 3 times in under 15 years. The older towns that where built here years ago are just trapped without much to do other than sand bag. Several of the smaller towns along the Turkey where basically destroyed in 2008 by that flood. They received Federal moneys to rebuild BUT out of the flood plain. THAT type of help I am all for. This flood those towns did not have much damage.

Now what really got me to post this. There are several areas that where built not that long ago that have been hit by this local flood. These are new homes build on ground that should never have been built on. Some of these are out in the county deliberately to be in a more "Rural" setting. That is fine and great to want out of town. NOW they are wanting to be declared a "Community" because they can receive more Federal Moneys to rebuild their homes and "Correct" the flooding issue. Meaning they want everyone to not only fix their homes but to also build a levy/dike to protect their homes that where built in a known flood plain. I had just read that story when I posted earlier. So I was a little POed about that. It was only after I got back in the house later today that I reread my post and picked up on it sounding like I was slamming all the people in La that got flooded. That was not my intent.

Now I did mention John Schneider being flooded for the second time this year. In this case I would think he would try some thing different for the future.

Now as for me not likely what your do. I tried to make amends for my ONE comment about tearing down buildings. I realize that many buildings are torn down for various reasons. It can be they are not sound any longer or that the owner just wants the building gone for whatever reason. I have nothing against your business that seems to be successful providing a service that is in demand in your area. If I was doing your business I would tear them down too. It would be who paid me to do what THEY wanted. I could still hate tearing down some of them but still do it. LOL I have done that here on a smaller scale. I usually try to salvage anything I can and then make the best of what is left.

Here is what I was trying to get across earlier and did a poor job of doing that. As an American you should be free to build wherever your want. Even if that is in a flood plain, the side of a rock slide, or even the middle of a place threated by forest fires. Now IF you build in an area that is likely to have a major disaster then do not expect to be bailed out with taxpayer dollars. I want less Government help and MORE private help done. This country has thrived in the past with its private donations. We have not been near as successful with the government help being successful any where in the world.
 
JD Seller, you need to do a little research before you pass judgement, most of the basin flooding which has taken place in Louisiana in the last 40 years or longer is mostly due to the destructive "improvements" to the flood plains natural drainage put in place by the U.S. Corp of engineers to protect the upper Mississippi valley, in other words, Southeast Louisiana and in particular the Louisiana Florida parishes were sacrificed for the heavier populated regions of the Midwest. The other major enviornmental calamity caused by this meddling is a loss of approximately 60% of the Louisiana coastal marsh to date.
 
Kookiness???? I think you read more between the lines than you do in them! And, I had to give up the high test kool-aid, it was not compatible with my chemo.
 
Greg
After reading my post I know I came down a little hard but yes this hits very close to home for me.
If the truth be told I am most likely the guy on this board that is furthest to the right so this does get under my skin a little.
I watch as a government entity allows and contributes to our coast wasting away.
And when asked "Why" their only answer is "Its the law" we must do it this way.
I watch as locals know what needs to be done in our area but refuse to admit it because it may mess up their fishing hole.
It discussed me to see people in a past storm that had no damage to their house other than the electricity going off for several days drive up in a 50K+ car to collect food stamps to replace the food lost in their freezer.

Fema made a rule several years ago to get people to pay more of the cost of flood insurance and build up above flood stage to rebuild. Then a woman from our state went to complaining just so she could get more votes and got the government to back down. Her brother the mayor of new Orleans is just as bad as her.

I wish I had the time to post the whole story so some of you could make a educated decision rather than a what CNN wants to tell you decision.
 
John in La=I was referring to a post you made a few years ago thar described how the Corps has destroyed the waterways and coastal areas. You posted pics, charts and graphs.
 
JD, you said: "As an American you should be free to build wherever your want. Even if that is in a flood plain."

Apparently this guy thinks like you do.
a235879.jpg

a235880.jpg
 
Just to be totally accurate, the "Dukes of hazard guy" (John Schneider) did not have his home flood twice. He owns a movie production company that had some flooding during an earlier flood. His 116 year old home, which had never flooded before, did flood this time. I saw water in places during this event, that I would have sworn that would never flood. Our church has a gym that we have always stored belongings in for people that were in danger of flooding, it had 2 feet of water in it this time.
 
(quoted from post at 17:32:20 08/28/16)
(quoted from post at 11:53:02 08/28/16) In general on this yes you are cold hearted but I mostly agree with you. :)

Events like 20 inches of rain as Baton Rouge had I feel for folks, that is not a normal or able to plan for event.

We've had wet periods that rain for weeks and then tops off with a 5-6 inch rain in an hour, again that just is t a normal thing you engineer for.

I feel for those deals.

If you built in a flood plain and this is the third time your house is under water half way up the first floor, well what were you thinking.

Perhaps I get more mad at the city planners that allow developers to build in such areas and or they change water flows/ diving systems and create a bad deal for some existing places.

So there is a lot of room in my mind for felling bad for folks.

But as you mean it, I presume, I agree with you, build in a flood prone area and well what did you expect? Even if it was approved by the city and all that, one needs to know a little about life and evaluate what you are buying/ renting and where it is located, you need a little personal responsibility in your choices.

Paul
Click to expand...

Every time a local official tells someone that they can't do something with their land, most of you guys will side with the landowner, regardless of the issue. :roll:
Click to expand...

Yeah! But it's YOUR RESPONSIBILITY if what you're doing results in major losses for you. It's not everyone elses problem if you make a stupid decision. Pretty simple concept.
 
(quoted from post at 14:45:44 08/28/16) JD, I meant no disrespect I agree to each his own . I don't think this abnormal flood was something that anyone could prepare for
Click to expand...

The way I read it, JD Seller doesn't think that either.

Most people just automatically went right to the worst possible thought. They didn't bother to read thoroughly and realize that he made a distinction between the different groups of people affected by this.

What this is is a sad commentary on the rest of us, and what's going on in our minds that we automatically read the worst into EVERYTHING, and don't take a moment to comprehend what we're reading.

Another example is the generator thread earlier... He said he brought the generator TO the house, not INTO the house. Yet, several people automatically injected that "IN" and unnecessarily admonished him for running the generator indoors.

Please, take a moment to let things sink in before you attack. Read the post a second or third time if you must.
 
Just because you make a decision that turns out to be wrong, does not mean it was a "Stupid" decision. Many, many of the people flooded during this rain had done their homework before buying/building in the area's. When FEMA puts out flood zone maps showing so called safe areas, the corp. of engineers says it's OK, the local building codes are met and the mortgage loan brokers consider it safe enough that they don't require flood insurance, most people think that is enough info to make a good decision. The problem is that FEMA and the Corp. are often wrong or the situation changes after someone has built.
For example, there were many homes flooded in an area that had never come close to flooding before. There is a four lane highway south of them that the Dept. of transportation decided needed a 2 1/2 foot concrete barrier put between the lanes to prevent head on collisions. The nearby residents complained that it would become a dam during a flood. The highway engineers said they would put drains under the wall every so often to let the water through. The problem was that as soon as the water came up the drains clogged with debris and the water rose 2 1/2 feet and flooded the homes. There are picture of the roadway with 2 1/2 feet of water on one side and the other side high and dry.
So you could say these homeowners made the wrong decision, but it certainly wasn't a "Stupid" one.
 
(quoted from post at 11:43:12 08/28/16) I am finding it pretty hard to feel much sympathy for many of the people that get flooded. I can see if it is the first time and you just got slammed with some weather event. Being flooded for the second/third/many times is just pure foolishness to me. Living where your in a flood plain is just foolish to me. There should NOT be insurance available if your in a flood plain period!!!! No government bailout either.

Just read about the Dukes of Hazard fellow getting flooded in LA. He just was flooded in March of this year and is again flooded. Do not feel too sorry for him.

People do not have to build next to water for the ability to use that water these days. They are not carrying it in buckets to use or dumping their human waste in the river for disposal. So living on higher ground is not the issue it once was.
Click to expand...

To a certain amount I agree. BUT I haven't heard much whining from these people. What I have seen is it being made into something political. If the politicians and glowbull warmers and everyone else would get out of their way then the locals take care of themselves. The ones you hear whining on TV are the ones that want the government and everyone else to take care of their stupidity. Occasionally Mother nature throws everyone a curve ball that we can't quite deal with immediately but if the government will get out of the way the local people will get the problem solved.
The rains in LA were an extreme rarity, I heard reports of up to 35". On flat ground any place would flood. I'm 500 miles north and we got over 18" but I'm on a hill.
The problem isn't the weather, every location in the world has some kind of unique weather phenomenon that will plague people at some point. The problem is people that don't want to take charge of their own lives and prepare for the worst that can happen. Government intervention only makes that mindset worse.
 
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