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Post dating checks

J

JD Farmer

Member
What would you guys do in this case?

I have a "customer" that has bought hay from me for the last 10 years or more, always second cutting small squares and about 15 round bales for the winter.

They only have storage for about 350 bales max, I take them loads of 260 bales at a time. Usually "just in time delivery".

Over the course of those years I have had checks bounce a time or two for a few days, always got an I'm sorry, need to transfer funds from another account, etc. OR have a post dated check handed to me with no explanation why? or ask my permission to do so.

Well yesterday I made a delivery and she handed me a posted dated check (3 days out), I was not happy....let her know right then and there it will be the last time that happens...

Now mind you, these are people that live well, have the "fancy" horses, and board horses for other people. So money is not the issue.

My own fault for being a nice guy and putting up with this BS for the last 10 years, or time to put a stop to it NOW!
 

My understanding of accepting a post dated check is very similar to accepting a promissory note from whomever you accept post dated check from IE your lady hay customer. YMMV
 
Sounds like you did the right thing. I suspect she needs you more than you need her, so you probably went UP on her list of people to pay.

However, being a horse owner whose horse is stabled at a large barn, I also see how a barn owner can have cash flow problems. It is not unusual to have a boarder with one or more horses be late on their bill. I have known the owner to hold a horse until the entire bill is paid before releasing it for trailering to some other place or upon sale. We ALWAYS pay our horse bills (vet, farrier, board, etc ) the day we receive them as we appreciate the service from these small business owners.

Hopefully your stand will let her know that your terms are "COD".
 
Get a current dated check, and you can hold it for a few days. Get a post dated, and the signatory dies...you got nuthin".
 
A post dated check is nothing more than a loan and collecting is as hard to do. Get a current dated check and agree to hold it then you can use the sherriff to collect just like any other. Just don't admit you agreed to hold it or you are in the same boat as a post dated check. This is very typical behavior for horse people in my experience. When I was in the welding business I got 2 bad checks, both from the same horse person. They also had a business that I worked for and I never had any problem with the business side.
 
Some people who " live high on the hog" are living so close to the wire that they don't have any money in the bank or any saved for emergencies.They could declare bankruptcy at any time.
 
I think post dated checks are illegal in some states - at least it used to be back in the days when I had to collect past-due payments on equipment.
 
I accept post dated checks from a few customers on occasion, but only if agreed upon first. That's rude to not discuss it with you beforehand. I get a few people who show up to get their vehicle ( I am in auto repair ) and claim to have forgotten their checkbook and / or wallet. They say , can I mail it to you ? I have usually said yes, then wait up to 2 months sometimes for it to come. Making calls to them somehow makes ME feel like I am doing something wrong. I now say Yes, you can mail it to me, but put it in the mail as soon as you get home and I will call you if it isn't here in 3 days, seems to work so far.
 
I'm not sure I can even comment, I just got a popup warning from this site :?: :?:

I think you did right. I have a few friends that I will carry for a while but they are real friends that would give me the shirt off of their back and if they never paid I wouldn't say anything. There are certain types of people that I try not to do business with. I would name them but that would get me in hot water for sure.
 
If you have a smart phone, you could accept a credit card. Companies like Square or PayPal offer attachments. I think there is a 3-5% fee that you would have to look into.
 
"So money is not the issue."

Considering your description of how they live, and the post-dated check, that's a good indication that money *IS* the issue.

They're probably having problems getting paid for at least some, if not most, of the boarding services they perform.

People with horses all too often don't realize what it takes and how much it costs to take care of these animals, and get in over their heads with no way out. There are only so many people who want horses, and way more horses than people who want them.
 
I had a customer that bounced a check. After that headache if they asked me to hold a check, I took it to my bank and asked that they send it thru and "hold for deposit" I understood that the check then tied up their funds, and when enough money was deposited to cover the check it went thru.
 
I use 'intuit' for cc's. 2ish% if i take a picture of the card from my cell phone. 3ish% if i just send in the number. best money i ever spent.
if they don't have a credit card, i'd ask for green cash; not a check!
 
My Banker told me that if you knowingly accept a post dated check, that is the same as the person telling you they don't have the money, and you are the same as out of luck if you don't end up getting it. Actually better to take a correctly dated check and hold it, even though it is still an iffy deal. Bob
 
I have had tractor people give me a check, and then tell me to hold it a few days.That
usually happens after it is loaded and chained down.I don't like it,but it's always
worked out.
 
The horse people I deal with are a PIA, but since I charge them for the pain I'm good with it. My sons and I were sweating our tales off unloading hay into a tiny storage "room" attached a stable and one asked me why we were doing this when we could try to sell it out of the field or off the wagon. I told him to wait and I would show him. We finished filling their storage area and the owner (a hot looking 50 year old woman) came out and paid me in cash at $6 a bale and gave each of the boys $40 for unloading - about 150 bales. They'll buy from me because they know they don't have to handle a bale and they actually drove to my place and inspected the field the hay came from to make check out the brome and to sure no noxious weeds were growing. It was like a wine maker inspecting a vineyard.

I told him nobody who buys it on the edge of the field is going to pay us $6 a bale (more like $3.50) and they might give you a drink of water for helping load. Its taken me about 5 years to get several GOOD PAYING customers and I have to bend over backwards to accommodate them but if I can get almost twice the market rate I'll do it.
 
My banker has told me that post dating checks is illegal. If people want to do that just tell them this. If this bothers them you most likely don't want to do business with them. Mike
 
I have a friend who boards a horse or two. One person got behind so the friend was going to hold the horse until payment. I ask her how that math come out to hold something that was going to eat her out of house and home while she waited for payment. Turned out good the young girls parents paid the money and sold the horse.
 
You can't tell by how they look. Twenty five years ago when I was married my wife who was a teacher used to tell of some of the other teachers that were in credit card debt up to here and didn't know if they would make it to the next payday without being hungry. They made $50,000, had husbands who made $100,000 or more. However they all had new expensive cars, new and expensive houses bigger than they ever needed in expensive areas, took expensive vacations often, ate out several nights a week at expensive restruants, etc. You get the ieda living way beyond their means and looking good but broke.
 
In general, IMHO - post dated checks are not a good idea. Maybe if it's a really good customer or relative and you know when you cash the check, it will be good - OK. As an example, repeat customer, otherwise reliable - they don't get paid until Friday, but Wednesday (today) is their day off and only opportunity to get hay, then I'm cutting them some slack. I want to see the hay gone too.

New customer, shaky looking customer - cash only.

A friend of mine recently took some hay from me and wrote a check. I never blinked as he is not in any way living from payday to payday. His checks are better than mine - LOL!

But I agree. I watch these horse customers in their big late model trucks, huge trailers, fabulous barns - EVERYTHING they own is top shelf. They even got the jeans, shirts, big belt buckle, boots and cowboy hat to dress the part - not cheap either. However, they inquire about hay for their "thoroughbreds", give a speech about how great their horse/family member is and give them the price for quality hay, nothing outrageous, but pencils out. It is though you had spoken bad of their mother or children. Really what they want is $2 hay for their thoroughbred. Not happen' They'll call again - after the first hard frost or when it snows. But what really irks me is - their TOTAL blindness to the time and effort (read sweaty hard work) that goes in to making hay, totally blind to it. Just give me your hay.

The majority of the $$$'s we raise selling hay (we sell all of it) is towards college expenses, tuition and books for my kids. I tell them - years from now when someone babbles about forgiving student loans, say NO - HECK NO!!!!!! You worked your arse off on the back of a hay wagon and stacking in a hot barn to KEEP out of college debt in the first place. Maybe they should have got a summer job too.

Off my soap box......

Cash only please.

Thanks,
Bill
 
I was always told (by a banker, no less) that you can deposit the check any time you want and that you don't have to wait for the date that was written on the check.
Of course, the odds that it will bounce or come back with insufficient funds are very high.
 
It's your call whether you accept a post dated check. Legally you can present it to their bank as soon as it's in your hand. I assume you unloaded the hay first and then got the check so I would live with that one. If you don't like it I would find if that is their plans before making another delivery though. If they don't have the funds they could wait three days or so for the delivery.
 
People will only drop a post-dated check on you if they think they can get away with it. They were betting you wouldn't or couldn't take your hay back home. I'll bet they don't hand their car dealer a post-dated check when they take delivery of a brand-new dually pickup.

We have a renter who occasionally sends us a post-dated check, but they always call us first. I let them slide for five days, because they usually pay on time and never bounce a check. I accidentally tried to deposit a post-dated check once; the teller spotted the date and handed it back to me, even though it was only one day early.
 
I will start here with reply's.
That's the problem, they would be out of hay come this weekend and it's rain every day from now on thru the weekend, and come Friday her husband leaves for over seas work, so no help to unload. Her husband called me for hay with one week's notice...and I am busy trying to make hay!!
 
Thank's everyone for the reply's.

I have only had one GOOD customer over the years that owned horses. He was a good ol'e boy from W.VA. knew 10 times more than most people do about everything, well to do and fun to talk too. We got along great and still do, but he finally got out of the horse business back when the economy tanked around 2008.

So I am about to get out of selling hay to horse people all together, they are just too big of a pita.
Funny how they never ever have a place to store hay that is easy to access, never have a clue about hay, weather it's good or bad, one species from another and so on. And for sure they have no clue, how it's made or what it takes to make good quality hay.

Years ago I used to sell lots of it right here at home, but really got sick and tired of them showing up at any hours of the day, like I was some kind of grocery store...and only want half a dozen bales at a time.

I guess I need to buy more cattle, feed it to them year round like the horse idiots do, lol.
 
There are three classes of people; the "haves," the "have-nots," and the "have-not-paid-for-what-they-haves."
 
Hay or feed for livestock is about as basic as it gets as far as the expense of keeping livestock goes, a horse owner may not be able to comfortably afford a new horse trailer, fancy saddle or the latest injury free fencing but if they can't afford hay that means they can't afford horses. I would not own any animal I could not feed with either profits from the sales of livestock or, in the case of pets, which is what 95% of horses in the US are, disposable income.
 
If it's signed, the date doesn't matter.
They wrote it and signed it, it's legal tender.
If it bounces that's on them.
That's the way it is here at least.
I can't say for certain that's true everywhere.

Me personally, unless we made that agreement in advance,
I would simply decline their business. Forever.
I do not need or want to deal with people who think I should
be at their beck and call yet wait for payment for my services.
 
If I were in your shoes, I'd tell them the next time they call you for a delivery to go to their bank or an ATM and get the cash. Payment will be due before unloading.
 
My niece's boyfriend works at a gas station by an interstate highway. His boss told him to Never except a check from horse people! If there is a picture of a horse on the check, Don't accept it!
 
JD- I have to agree, selling to most horse people is an experience, if you can control your temper, usually you can get some real chuckles from each sale.

Local guy built a business from the ground up, sold it for a fortune. Decided to build a top-shelf stable, as the area was lacking, and his daughter was into her horses. Bought some prime ground, built a HUGE facility, indoor arena, trainer's apartment included. 40 horse stalls.

They included hay storage for about 400 bales. AND made it so you virtually have to hand-carry each one to the storage area the length of the 40 stalls- unless you can back a loaded wagon down the aisle about a foot wider than the wagon, for 300 feet.

Top that off, he had 50+ acres of open ground across the street planted to nearly pure alfalfa for these horses. Bought a well-used Ford 4000, 7 foot NH haybine, NH baler, and ONE hay wagon. Told his stable manager- get the hay in!

Of course, the 4H friends his daughter loved to ride with cannot afford to board their horses there...
 
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